Where are all the good liveries? Rant!!

[Haphazardhacker]

I've had some good ones and some bad ones. I like them to visit their horse twice daily (or do swapsies with another livery, and poo pick their section) With the poo picking, sadly, in our case for example as we rent yard basically the price we charge our liveries is about a fiver more than we pay ourselves for our horses "livery". So there is often no money over for luxury items. Not all diy yards are run as businesses, as there is much more money in providing services. That said, I would not wanr my horse on full livery, I like to be fully involved and not just turn up as and when.

 

[dominobrown]

More fool you for not giving them notice.

Easier said than done. Als o I auppose I have had to learn the hard way. Some people will take advantage whatever.
Not to thread hijack, but I have given polite waenings and reminders, put up signs etc.

I have given new contracts with every single rule clearly listed and explaimed. I am thinkimg about doing a stroke system... a bit like emplyers do, 3 broken rules and notice is given (what do your yards do?). I wouldnt kick someone off the yard for not clearing away one poo one time. I don'twant to be a dragon and I dont like conflict but obviousky you cant have one person ignore rules while the others play by them. They havent been here a year yet and its only really recently that I have got the end of my tether.

Tip for op- find out why they left their old yard and speak to old yard owner if possible. I have done that with the good liveries, I get on with all the other livery yard owners around. The bad livery left their old yard on very very bad terms with a huge faceboook slagging match... not looking forward to that! Its a good warning sign though!

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

Quote : "Where are all the good liveries ?", well a few of them are on our yard. The horses are looked after really well. Paddocks are poo picked daily, horses are ridden most days. They are groomed, mucked out & fed well. They are schooled/hacked regularly & are fit & healthy & over half are competed regularly as well. This is a DIY yard. They yard has 11 horses, 4 are the owners, 3 are ours, two are another liveries & another livery has one. We all get on well & we have no issues with each other. We'll help one another if needed. A couple of the liveries have the odd day full livery due to work commitments.

As far as I'm aware all livery bills are paid promptly weekly & we get together to buy hay in bulk. The yards is lovely, facilities are really good. The YO loves the yard & is constantly improving it & this is appreciated by all. When a stably comes vacant great thought is put into deciding whether ban applicant will fit in with the yard. We have a good balance & no one wants the balance upset.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I'm lucky and I know it, I've got THE perfect livery, in every way. She and her little boy are a pleasure to have around and their horses/ponies are always polite, well mannered, and look simply fantastic, a testimony to her care. It is important for us to have the right person as we live on site and keep our horses here at home too so don't need an unpleasant atmosphere to have to deal with!

She is a peach, and a real darling - not just a "livery" but also a friend too, we've laughed and cried about our horses, loved some and lost some too..... long may she stay!

In 20-odd years of offering DIY livery (we only have room for one, which makes life a LOT easier), we've only had one really bad one. She shut her pony in the stable and went off for the weekend to goodness-knows-where, without making any arrangements for it or telling me where she'd gone! Thankfully she only stayed for a month and then swanned off.

(Edited) just to say that it IS worth waiting for the right livery(s) to come along; 10 years ago here you couldn't even give livery away, no-one seemingly wanted our little place! We didn't understand why, and had the place vacant for about a year as couldn't find anyone! Now, ten years on, I could've filled the place here ten-times over and still have a queue round the block. But if you are struggling to find a good livery, do not be tempted to compromise and have anyone in, as you'll regret it. There's nothing worse than someone on the place who not only is a total PITA but upsets everyone else too and is disloyal behind your back to boot. Don't do it!! Hang on in there, like horses, the right one WILL come along.

 

[ossy]

Having managed both I definitely find diy or worse mixed yards much harder to manage everyone just wanted to do their own thing, i much prefer manageing full only set routines and rules and thats that. Don't really have any bother with current liveries or trouble finding decent ones. Like said above i don't compromise on the type of livery I'm looking for and turned people away in the past as with the questions and demands they were asking i knew they would not fit in.

Not that I'm saying yours isn't OP but i've always found well managed decent yards attract decent liveries.

 

[hairycob]

I've only been on one yard where there were horses that weren't cared for. I left pretty quickly as the YO put up with it.

 

[pepsimaxrock]

The yard owner doesn't care whether people ride or not. That's just me more wondering as a fellow horse owner, I just don't understand why people own horses but do nothing with them but that's their choice I suppose it just baffles me.

interesting enough navel gazing but tagged on to your rant locates it firmly with yard owner being bothered whether people ride or not. For some horses are just pets....

What baffles me is why livery yard owners take money off clients and criticise them on this forum.

 

[jojo5]

For the record, I've yet to encounter a full livery service that provides even adequate care for the horses in its charge. Hence why I am staunchly DIY. At least that way my horses are never left hungry, thirsty or standing in filth!

Just to say I am actually at a full livery yard which provides very good care for my boy. I have never had full livery before, but could not find a part livery yard anywhere near our new home - even our new full livery is 40 mins away. I was very wary at first but everyone was very welcoming and, as I go every day even tho it's full ( it's what I and he are used to), I know that the horses are fed correctly, regularly skipped out, checked, and made a fuss of during the day, and recently when my boy had to have anti-biotics and eye cream, this was done in the mornings exactly as it should be as well. So far it has been a great place to be!

 

[Northern]

I have my own private 8 or so acres and stables on a really big livery farm. In my case my horses are managed purely DIY, by myself. I try and make sure that my stables/yards are kept clean and neat, make sure my paddocks are rested and weeded. How many times I go out depends entirely on the time of year and horse situation. Ideally, when both of mine are out 24/7, and in the summer they would need minimum one visit for their small feeds and to check their rugs, twice a day to remove fly masks if it's stinking hot.

Currently in winter, I'm out a minimum of twice a day changing rugs and feeding. One of mine is out on yard rest, so I'm out three times a day to top up hay/water and clean out the yard until she's able to go out in the paddock again. I couldn't imagine not checking on them at least once a day, and to keep the place presentable is a matter of pride for me.

I would say up to 50% of the horses on this farm are not seen to every day, more like 2/3 times a week. Winter rugs are popped on in May and not removed until October, regardless of the weather. It's very hard to watch, and there is little point complaining because it falls on deaf ears. My current philosophy is to just keep to myself and try to ignore the others. As long as they have grazing and water, nothing will be done anyway

 

[jumping.jack_flash]

CONTRACTS ! RULES! and as to PAYMENTS... a FEE will be included of x% for late rent by X days.

As to if people ride or not.. well thats up to them.

I loved being on DIY, had great routine and I knew my horse was individually cared for. Now on Livery, I'm still there everyday to check on the horse, and twice at weekends...

but my point was going to be .... there are various types of horse owners, regardless of DIY, Part Livery, Full Livery.... some obsessive , some not so obsessive...

 

[Laika]

I always pay my livery yard owner for helping me out if I need to go away with Work etc or we will discuss if she's happy for me to get one of the other liveries to help out.

I always poo pick as this is for the benefit of my horse more than anything, so this shouldn't be coming onto the YO to remind me. I get that life happens but a horse is a commitment at the end of the day.

I paid my livery a day early in August because it was my birthday the day it was due (didn't have a horse at the time but was paying to keep my stable) because I knew I wouldn't be able to get down to the yard that day. You're paying for a privileged at the end of the day and my YO does a cracking job, so I wouldn't want to annoy her.

 

[DD]

do they pay by DD?if everything is above board then all should be ok make all new liveries pay 1 month in advance all by direct debit and give those who don't pay immediate notice to leave. you need rules too and a contract which all need to sign.

 

[nikkianddave]

I am on a mix of a DIY / Part and Full Livery yard.
My YO is fab and looks after the full liveries well, but I prefer DIY, not only is it substantially cheaper, but they also include morning feed and morning turnout in the DIY price.
I have been up at various times of day, and my horse is fed promptly at 7am, every single morning, including Xmas day! and if I want turnout, they are turned out by 8am, rugged up if bad weather.

I am at the yard daily, my pony is only 2YO so he is turned out most of the time, but I catch him and groom him daily, he has his tea as he is a rescue and was in very poor condition when I got him, bath him weekly etc.

I always ensure my stable is kept immaculate, clear of poo, cobwebs, the entire area outside of my stable is swept daily regardless as to whether I have used it or not. My buckets are clean, my water drinker is spotless, and my shared tack room is kept pristine. Every single time I get to the hay shed the hay is everywhere!! I always tidy this up, sweep around and put the scraps people have pulled out of their nets on the muck heap.

I live by the rule that our yard is our yard owners home, some do not care as much as I do, but I am grateful for the opportunity to be able to keep my pony there, at their home, with such lovely YOs who really do look after the horses there.

I pay every single month cash to the yard owner, wouldn't ever dream of being late, always there and happy to help with other liveries if they need it and with their own horses.

I ensure that my children are respectful, do not make too much noise and are well behaved at all times. There is a lady on my yard who screams at her children all the time they are there and before now the YO has closed his house windows! That was embarrassing!!!

None of us will ever be perfect liveries, none of us will ever be perfect YOs, but if we try to be then maybe all yards will be better!!

 

[AFB]

I like to think I'm a good DIYer - I always pay on time, I use the assisted DIY option onsite when I can't get down (with reasonable notice too) and have only ever not shown up in an absolute emergency when horse was out in the field with access to water & grazing.

Field maintenance isn't the responsibility for us though, YO is quite strict that this is his forte - I personally would always avoid yards where I would have to poo pick as realistically this would be all of my yard time taken up (and I HATE poo picking!).

I'm also another that gets irked by YO's criticism of how often you ride, having been subject to a rather judgemental YO who couldn't understand why my horse was only ridden at weekends when I work 9-5 M-F, and we didn't have any floodlights.

 

[abb123]

Do you think that there is a forum somewhere for plumbers where they slag off their customers, think that should feel privileged to be paying for their services, and get judgemental about how often they use a tap?

 

[Kezzabell2]

This probably explains why my yard owner often pops her head out and thanks for me keeping the field so clean and tidy and has mentioned before about not having to chase me for my hay money ever!! guess people do take the p, but I would never dream of it.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

I'm another one who loves my full livery yard. The staff are very experienced and work very hard. They are always on hand to answer questions and despite a lot of horses, are able to take individual care of each. Do I think his bed should be thicker? Yes aways, but he lives out and has rubber matting so he doesn't need more bedding when he is only in his stable for a few hours at a time (when he's been brought in for me to ride later in the day, or in for the farrier, he's never in long). My horse is a bit fussy about drinking from his auto drinker so they provide a tubtrug too, both are kept clean.

The YO does like to check horses are being ridden but she doesn't force the issue, she likes to make sure no one is struggling. She simply wants to see us do well so she can foster long term relationships of happy horses and owners.

 

[be positive]

Do you think that there is a forum somewhere for plumbers where they slag off their customers, think that should feel privileged to be paying for their services, and get judgemental about how often they use a tap?

Having a livery yard is nothing like being a plumber, the YO provides a totally different service, they usually live on site so it is their home that is open to clients, they rent part of their facilities, a stable, a field, use of an arena, storage, a place to park a trailer and variations on a similar theme, they maintain the facilities and may offer various services depending on the yard, there is also electricity, water, insurance and rates to pay, not forgetting the mortgage or rent, for this some yards charge about the same per week as a plumber probably charges per hour, so sometimes I think a bit of whinging is totally justified.
Not all yards are perfect, not all liveries are perfect but almost all yards are undercharging and run as a sideline, a hobby or a loss, very few are financially viable in real terms when everything is taken into account, a plumber will probably go round and remove the taps if the client fails to pay, it is far more difficult to deal with a horse that is not cared for properly, most of us will feed and water it until the owner turns up.

 

[Merrymoles]

Ours is a diy yard. Fields are poo picked every day, horses looked after, concrete swept, immaculate beds. Some horses ridden, some rarely ridden, but happy and healthy.

Yep - same with us. Horses aren't immaculate but beds are!

 

[pansymouse]

I'm a good livery; I pay on the nail, I'm respectful and tidy, I visit everyday and I ride regularly. Without exception past YOs have been sad to see me go. I try to treat my YOs as I would wish to be treated if I was in their position. When I retire I will buy a house with land but there is no way on earth I would take liveries after the behaviour I've seen over the years.

 

[MuddyMonster]

But I can't understand people who pay others to look after their horses for them to be honest, surely 'owning a horse' is about, y'know, doing it yourself. But maybe that's just me, I don't know, I hate it when people even offer to help me do anything. (I do everything myself - I've been seen pushing a wheel barrow and leading a jumpy mare before lol).

Because not everyone has the time or the inclination to have their horses on DIY livery?

I've been on full, assisted and DIY livery at various stages. I'd rather a horse was looked after well on part livery than sub-optimally on DIY. Through it all I've always paid on time, been polite and looked after my horse.

I enjoy doing my horse myself, which is why I'm on DIY now but if circumstances dictated I'd rather put him on livery (be it assisted DIY or part/full) and know his routine & care remain to a high standard than struggle to meet his needs looking after him myself.

ETA: I'd love to pay by DD by YO won't accept it - I think they think they are being accomodating accepting cheque's

 

[abb123]

Having a livery yard is nothing like being a plumber, the YO provides a totally different service, they usually live on site so it is their home that is open to clients, they rent part of their facilities, a stable, a field, use of an arena, storage, a place to park a trailer and variations on a similar theme, they maintain the facilities and may offer various services depending on the yard, there is also electricity, water, insurance and rates to pay, not forgetting the mortgage or rent, for this some yards charge about the same per week as a plumber probably charges per hour, so sometimes I think a bit of whinging is totally justified.
Not all yards are perfect, not all liveries are perfect but almost all yards are undercharging and run as a sideline, a hobby or a loss, very few are financially viable in real terms when everything is taken into account, a plumber will probably go round and remove the taps if the client fails to pay, it is far more difficult to deal with a horse that is not cared for properly, most of us will feed and water it until the owner turns up.

I'm perfectly aware that being a plumber is not the same as being a YO. Obviously.

My point is that being a YO is a job just like any other. It needs management skills to run a yard successfully. If it is ran as a hobby and you are undercharging then you have to accept that you won't make a huge profit as you do it for the enjoyment.

YOs can whinge in the same way that people in other jobs whinge occasionally but there is nothing special about it and I get a bit tired of the woe is me.

Plenty of other jobs welcome customers onto their premises where they live: pubs, cafes, etc. I rent my rooms out in my home. It isn't hard to put a contract in place, have clear rules and boundaries, be welcoming, be respectful and be professional.

I'm not anti YO. I'm just not a moany whinging person myself. I just get on with things and don't understand the big fuss that YOs seem to make when it just seems like normal life to me!

 

[be positive]

I'm perfectly aware that being a plumber is not the same as being a YO. Obviously.

My point is that being a YO is a job just like any other. It needs management skills to run a yard successfully. If it is ran as a hobby and you are undercharging then you have to accept that you won't make a huge profit as you do it for the enjoyment.

YOs can whinge in the same way that people in other jobs whinge occasionally but there is nothing special about it and I get a bit tired of the woe is me.

Plenty of other jobs welcome customers onto their premises where they live: pubs, cafes, etc. I rent my rooms out in my home. It isn't hard to put a contract in place, have clear rules and boundaries, be welcoming, be respectful and be professional.

I'm not anti YO. I'm just not a moany whinging person myself. I just get on with things and don't understand the big fuss that YOs seem to make when it just seems like normal life to me!

I do realise you were just using it as an example but being a YO is not like any other normal job where you go to your place of work, do your hours, go home and within reason switch off, obviously some jobs are not so simple but very few jobs entail clients coming onto your premises 7 days a week 365 days a year, with the client having "rented" part of your home/ facilities, it is the DIY aspect that does not compare except to possibly doing as you do by renting a room within your home but I bet they pay more for the room than they would for a DIY stable and that you would soon tell them if they left your kitchen in a mess or a trail of mud behind them which seems to be normal to some people within the yard, everyone on here has higher standards but obviously not all liveries are equal, we have probably all had a bad one that required pulling into line.

I don't moan about my liveries very often and hope they don't moan about me too much, there are far more threads on here by liveries moaning about their yard, the rules, the costs etc than YO's moaning about their clients and naturally each will get some support in the same way people get support and suggestions on other threads, that is the point of the forum, if no one responded it would be the loss of a useful way of getting help, advice and information.

 

[abb123]

I do realise you were just using it as an example but being a YO is not like any other normal job where you go to your place of work, do your hours, go home and within reason switch off, obviously some jobs are not so simple but very few jobs entail clients coming onto your premises 7 days a week 365 days a year, with the client having "rented" part of your home/ facilities, it is the DIY aspect that does not compare except to possibly doing as you do by renting a room within your home but I bet they pay more for the room than they would for a DIY stable and that you would soon tell them if they left your kitchen in a mess or a trail of mud behind them which seems to be normal to some people within the yard, everyone on here has higher standards but obviously not all liveries are equal, we have probably all had a bad one that required pulling into line.

I don't moan about my liveries very often and hope they don't moan about me too much, there are far more threads on here by liveries moaning about their yard, the rules, the costs etc than YO's moaning about their clients and naturally each will get some support in the same way people get support and suggestions on other threads, that is the point of the forum, if no one responded it would be the loss of a useful way of getting help, advice and information.

My current YO's house is at least 300 ft from the yard with a drive, a hedge, and a building, and a lawn in the way. My last yard they had a 10 ft fence between their back garden and the yard. The same with other yards I have been on or seen.

On their property - yes. In their home - definitely not!

I don't see how this is any different to a pub landlord. Neither are the hours - hotels, B&Bs, restaurants etc all run 7 days a week 365 days a year. I've seen plenty of posts on here about full livery yards not providing a service on Christmas day. I've worked plenty of Christmas days in the past and so do others!

I see far more threads on here by YOs moaning about liveries than I do liveries moaning about YOs - but then maybe that is just that I notice them more being a livery myself.

As I said. I'm not anti YOs, I treat mine with the same respect that I would treat anyone providing a service for me: I pay on time, I treat their property with respect, I follow the rules, and I'm amiable. I just don't think there is anything abnormal or special about the job that other people in other industries don't do too.

 

[dominobrown]

I think its the lack of respect- "if i wreck this yard I will move to another" and the fact that some Diys expect you to tidy up after them/ do things for them etc when they are DIY! But for me the biggest bug bear is when it comes down to not looking after horses properly... i wouldn't mind a livery who wasn't chatty or freindly but looked after their horses perefctly. It's so irratating to see horses not looked after properly, the owner knowing full well that if they can't be arsed to show up the yo will feed their horse etc out of good will. However I must say... this is the odd person. Most liveries just want the best for their horse.
I suppose that how its different to a plumber... i don't care and neither do they how you care for your house/ toilet etc but I do when it comes to a horse/ helpless animal!

 

[Chinchilla]

Because not everyone has the time or the inclination to have their horses on DIY livery?

I've been on full, assisted and DIY livery at various stages. I'd rather a horse was looked after well on part livery than sub-optimally on DIY. Through it all I've always paid on time, been polite and looked after my horse.

I enjoy doing my horse myself, which is why I'm on DIY now but if circumstances dictated I'd rather put him on livery (be it assisted DIY or part/full) and know his routine & care remain to a high standard than struggle to meet his needs looking after him myself.

Maybe it's just me having trust issues lol - I don't even trust my family to do it right hehe My brother had to do mine for me once and I insisted he sent me photos of *everything* so I could check it was done right - I expect he found me to be higher maintenance than the horses

 

[Seville]

Wow....as a DIYer I can honestly say this makes me cringe to read, we're not all like that, I'm sorry you've been made to feel this way as it's just not true...!!
My mum and I keep our field clear of poo (no easy task considering we have 5 horses, particularly in winter doing it by the puny light from a head torch!), ragwort and weed it by hand ourselves, and more often than not maintain it ourselves as the land owners can't be arsed; we don't look to be doing a lot with our horses but Alfie's been injured pretty much permanently since we got him (ahh the joy of TBs) but Diva is being worked most days. The others are retired due to their age (youngest si 17, oldest is 27, not sure it's fair to expect them to work lol!). I've had quite a bad loss of confidence recently so don't ride much because of that - but my eventual goal is to go out and do endurance and go on lots of looooong hacks.

We like doing things ourselves with our own horses and Rosie in particular would not cope on a large livery yard being cared for by many different people. I like to have a bond with my horses and do the majority of the work myself - let's face it, only about 5% of owning horses is actually riding. 90% of my time is spent picking up their **** to be honest! But it's so satisfying to go up and know when I shout that they will all come trotting or cantering over to see their "mummy".

But I can't understand people who pay others to look after their horses for them to be honest, surely 'owning a horse' is about, y'know, doing it yourself. But maybe that's just me, I don't know, I hate it when people even offer to help me do anything. (I do everything myself - I've been seen pushing a wheel barrow and leading a jumpy mare before lol).

That being said, before it was just us on the land, there was one woman who would come up in winter, through a chunk of hay and a bucket of feed over the fence and drive off. We ended up breaking her poor horse's water because he was licking the ice to try and get a drink poor lad. Some people are just lazy I think.

I want you as my diy!!!!!!Please???????

 

[abb123]

I think its the lack of respect- "if i wreck this yard I will move to another" and the fact that some Diys expect you to tidy up after them/ do things for them etc when they are DIY! But for me the biggest bug bear is when it comes down to not looking after horses properly... i wouldn't mind a livery who wasn't chatty or freindly but looked after their horses perefctly. It's so irratating to see horses not looked after properly, the owner knowing full well that if they can't be arsed to show up the yo will feed their horse etc out of good will. However I must say... this is the odd person. Most liveries just want the best for their horse.
I suppose that how its different to a plumber... i don't care and neither do they how you care for your house/ toilet etc but I do when it comes to a horse/ helpless animal!

Sorry for being utterly pedantic and like a dog with a bone but..

There are plenty of other jobs where people worry about the care of something outside of the immediate responsibility of their job too. For example vets, doctors, dog walkers, child minders, nurses, teachers etc.

I'm not saying that that care isn't to be commended, I'm just saying that it is pretty normal and common to lots of other jobs too.

 

[wingedhorse]

Because not everyone has the time or the inclination to have their horses on DIY livery?

I've been on full, assisted and DIY livery at various stages. I'd rather a horse was looked after well on part livery than sub-optimally on DIY. Through it all I've always paid on time, been polite and looked after my horse.

I enjoy doing my horse myself, which is why I'm on DIY now but if circumstances dictated I'd rather put him on livery (be it assisted DIY or part/full) and know his routine & care remain to a high standard than struggle to meet his needs looking after him myself.

ETA: I'd love to pay by DD by YO won't accept it - I think they think they are being accomodating accepting cheque's

I’ve done DIY and prefer it times a million to bad / substandard part livery.

I currently have GOOD part / full (odd mix of both) livery. And it’s close to perfect.

My horses are 35 minutes away, which means I cannot time and fuel go every day.

BUT they get 16 hours a day in safe, large, well-draining fields 365 days a year, just my two together.

There is masses of safe varying terrain hacking and, a decent surfaced 20x60 school with mirrors.

My horses are fed at floor level, as much decent hay as they can eat – proper adlib hay. Home grown hay too.

Beds / rugs / boots / extra care done properly. Diet exactly as I specify.

I didn’t realise until I stopped how stressful I found DIY (with no one on yard in middle of day) when horse injured / needed daytime visits from professionals.

My horses don’t care who mucks them out and feeds them, and staff are good!

I go 5 times a week and have more time to groom, massage, do stretches, and concentrate on working both!

 

[Chinchilla]

I want you as my diy!!!!!!Please???????

Please, honestly!! Where are you

For real though:
There is NOWHERE round me that accepts DIYs except where the ponios are currently living and it's utterly substandard. Land lords refuse to do any maintenance unless chased.
Land prices are through the roof through here though so moving to our own place is not an option (yet!) - £400,000 for 5 acres with a dilapidated rusty barn and no running water? I don't think so...!