Where are your hands?

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Equi

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Just wondering. Because i'm looking at a lot of sale ads from professional sellers/dealers right now and the riders hands are on the pommel basically. The horse is in an outline so to speak, but noone looks comfortable. I have a terrible habit of putting my hands down when i go into canter because i have terrible nerves and i have been trying my darn hardest to stop it, then i see all these people who are "professional sellers" doing it in all gaits?

Pics if you please?
 
In my head, they are level with her ears but either I'm imagining it or the camera lies because they aren't anywhere near as high as I think they are when I see pics and vids!
 
Asking for left flexion, by the look of it

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Years ago, whenever I was schooling, doing dressage or ODE, my reins would leave scuff marks on each side of the pommel. The more intricate or extensive the work we were doing was, the worse the scuffs were! Never happened sj, xc, tc or hacking.
 
Normally away down low and far to wide...and I also have washing lines! Reckon that's from a vague attempt of trying to encourage horses to stretch and fine there naturally outline.. It doesn't work! If I'm on a well schooled horse they tend to be each side of the pommel at a nice height :)
 
At the moment low'ish but not that wide, about normal width - horse is young with a habit of curling around the bit and high hands seem to encourage this further so for now, about level with the pommel and shoulders with apart, the line from elbow to bit is still straight; She's still curling slightly, but this is vastly improved!

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Typically just above the pommel, we are working towards a higher frame so starting to pick them up a bit more now but mostly just above pommel
 
I have really short arms so they look weird no matter what I do. Higher is better than lower because then at least the bit isn't putting too much pressure on the bars of the mouth, but you want a straight line from elbow to bit. So if you are working your horse in a longer outline, naturally your hands will be lower than for collected work. If your arms are straight or your hands too low, there is no way you can be soft through the elbow. Ideally hands should be just above and in front of the pommel but it depends on your conformation :p It might be helpful to look up a dressage rider with a similar build to you and see how they sit.

Tbh for dealer's photos, they need a green/unschooled horse to look as good as possible in a short space of time, and if that means putting it in a false outline momentarily, they will do that. I wouldn't go looking for riding inspiration in such photos.
 
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Pigeon said:
I have really short arms so they look weird no matter what I do. Higher is better than lower because then at least the bit isn't putting too much pressure on the bars of the mouth, but you want a straight line from elbow to bit. So if you are working your horse in a longer outline, naturally your hands will be lower than for collected work. If your arms are straight or your hands too low, there is no way you can be soft through the elbow. Ideally hands should be just above and in front of the pommel but it depends on your conformation :p It might be helpful to look up a dressage rider with a similar build to you and see how they sit.

Tbh for dealer's photos, they need a green/unschooled horse to look as good as possible in a short space of time, and if that means putting it in a false outline momentarily, they will do that. I wouldn't go looking for riding inspiration in such photos.
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Well said Pigeon. I ride with high hands encouraging my youngster to drop onto the contact without shortening his neck.
 
My instructor is working on my hands with me. I naturally want to bury them downwards, but this makes my body curve so I'm not sitting up straight. Now my hands are quite high, with a straight line from elbow to bit, in a tram line.
 
I have no idea. They are like teenagers, don’t like doing what they are told, rebel against things they have been doing for years and I have no idea what they are up to half the time and when I do I have no idea why they thought that was a good idea…
Normally they are letting my reins slip through, they are generally in a good position but because I end up with long reins they can either get a bit high or low to take up the slack. My elbow is always pretty soft and I don’t bury my hands in my crotch or rest them on the pommel nor do I have them up by the horse’s ears. They are lower than I would like but better than they were.
I'm hoping if I get another horse it won’t have a giraffe neck and leans so I can stop riding with washing lines.
 
Similar to Vam, never in one place and unruly creatures most of the time. Too low and back in flatwork, flapping about like a chicken when jumping. I'm currently trying to retrain myself but old habits die hard. I do think a lot of riders, inc me, have their hands too low and back, it's a false way to get an outline, or a way to get a false outline maybe! If I look in the mirror to get a straight line through bit to elbow then my hands need to be higher and more forward.

Not a great quality pic

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In trot I have what I would describe as good hands, nice and high and horse is in a good frame but in canter he curls and puts his head down, which we have put down to avoidance because he will only do it once or twice and if you lift him up he stops it. I lean forward and he tends to pull me forward too hence the hands very low so it doesn't look very good. I think if I can sit bad a bit more I would have higher hands cause I'm long on the body
 
My hands go where the situation dictates. Low and wide on a young wobbly horse, up and together on an established horse. Most dealer horses are the former, so I can see why their riders keep their hands low.
One of my pet peeves is people ridig with their hands in "teatray" position, when the horse is not ready or able to work in that frame. I like to see the rider using more leg to bring the horse through from behind, and bringing their hands up when the horse shows that it is ready to work higher, rather than trying to bring the horse up by raising the hands. Hands too high, "lifting" the horses front up is more likely to encourage it to curl up more. If a horse curls up on me, I lighten my hands, without giving the contact away, and use my legs more.
Even on an advanced horse, I do a lot more stretching and suppling work in a longer lower frame, than work in advanced outline
 
Mine are a fair bit higher than most people I see. I did question it thinking I was doing it wrong but my instructor told me to continue as I was. I ride like I'm resting a tray on my thumbs and look like a right stuck up toff!
 
Like Pigeon I have very short arms (though you always look very graceful to me Pigeon, would not have said you have short arms!), so I find it very hard to have my hands in the 'correct' position of just in front and above the saddle with nice soft elbows. My instructor is always telling me to put my hands down :o especially as Topaz is so sensitive to the contact I need to keep the bit in the best place in her mouth.

Typically where my hands end up when not specifically working on something:
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Showing just how high they get! I'm asking for right flexion either because we're about to circle or more likely she's about to pap her pants at something I'm attempting to keep her attention :o:D. Very incorrect hands, as I pulling back with my right hand, rather than out to the side and far too high, poor Topaz she does put up with a lot!
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Obviously hand position should change when asking for specific things, for example wide, low, forward hands to encourage the nose down and forward to stretch the frame.

I do see some people with fixed low hands to fix a horse into a 'outline', not very correct and is normally when you see a horse being worked from the front end only and the back end trailling behind.
 
Pigeon said:
I have really short arms so they look weird no matter what I do. Higher is better than lower because then at least the bit isn't putting too much pressure on the bars of the mouth, but you want a straight line from elbow to bit. So if you are working your horse in a longer outline, naturally your hands will be lower than for collected work. If your arms are straight or your hands too low, there is no way you can be soft through the elbow. Ideally hands should be just above and in front of the pommel but it depends on your conformation :p It might be helpful to look up a dressage rider with a similar build to you and see how they sit.

Tbh for dealer's photos, they need a green/unschooled horse to look as good as possible in a short space of time, and if that means putting it in a false outline momentarily, they will do that. I wouldn't go looking for riding inspiration in such photos.
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I have short arm syndrome too! I have to really make an effort to lift and "Give" with my hands but because my horse is 16.1hh with a decent length of neck and I have puny arms, so I struggle to have the bend in my elbow, whilst giving with my hands with a decent contact. (I used to have a bad habit of getting nervous and snatching the reins!) It usually ends up either with my thinking I am "giving" but I am actually leaning forward to keep my elbows bent or my arms are straight or my reins are too long. Wierdly in Canter I am ok, walk and trot I really struggle with...

Its a minefield, alot depends on how you are built, how your horse is built, what you are doing and what actually feels comfortable for you both.
 
I vote we start dressage for the short-armed people :D there seem to be a few of us about. I thought I was the only one with the giving rein = straight arm problem!
 
AlexHyde said:
I vote we start dressage for the short-armed people :D there seem to be a few of us about. I thought I was the only one with the giving rein = straight arm problem!
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It's such a pain in the butt! :p If I have my elbows by my sides, my hands are way too far back! I also lean forward to try and have giving hands - I think it may be a combo of long torso and short arms. And quite a small horse. :P I think it may be quite common for women - male riders don't tend to have this problem. If you look at Charlotte D, she has shorter arms and has nice forward hands, she carries them higher than others.
 
Pigeon said:
It's such a pain in the butt! :p If I have my elbows by my sides, my hands are way too far back! I also lean forward to try and have giving hands - I think it may be a combo of long torso and short arms. And quite a small horse. :P I think it may be quite common for women - male riders don't tend to have this problem. If you look at Charlotte D, she has shorter arms and has nice forward hands, she carries them higher than others.
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I wonder if she has to carry them higher to keep the bend in the elbow, hand giving, and a decent contact without tipping forward! Oh if I could ride 1% as good as her I'd be chuffed ha!

I have short arms, a short torso but a big horse. It means I have to work harder to keep my hands up, elbows bent and forward with a contact, on a horse that does all she can to evade the contact. Its like a perfect storm :p
 
My hands are generally anywhere but where they are supposed to be. It seems to be the bane of my schooling life at the moment as I would say that all of the schooling problems I am having at the moment are due to my crappy hands. They are either too high and wobbly or to low and wide and having no effect. Bah.

If anyone has a fool proof magic way to sort my hands out, there will be wine and cookies for all!!
 
I find my hands are generally OK, but my arms and elbows are the problem!

Flat riding, my elbows like to try and be straight so hands are quite low. In jumping, elbows like to be bent with forearm parallel to the ground, so hands too high.

Naughty elbows.

Although last night's jumping lesson was ok, elbow wise, so must just be when competing! >.<
 
Hopefully peoples' hands are where they should be, which is part of a straight line from the bit to the rider's elbow. Alex Hyde, your hands are NOT too high, they are the closest to where they should be out of all the pics I've seen on this thread.
 
Cortez said:
Hopefully peoples' hands are where they should be, which is part of a straight line from the bit to the rider's elbow. Alex Hyde, your hands are NOT too high, they are the closest to where they should be out of all the pics I've seen on this thread.
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Interesting as I'd love them an inch or two lower, but then I get straight elbows, or they can be lower but not in front of the saddle to keep the soft elbows. Though to be fair I do try hard when competing to be very still and consistant with my hands as she is prone to boiling over so I don't want to add to the situation! Will quiz my instructor on my next lesson, as it could be me misunderstanding (not uncommon :D).
 
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A fairly advanced horse here, but the straight-line-to-the-bit rule applies from the very first ride, and you must "carry your hands" if there is to be a live connection to the horse's mouth.
 
Sprat said:
My hands are generally anywhere but where they are supposed to be. It seems to be the bane of my schooling life at the moment as I would say that all of the schooling problems I am having at the moment are due to my crappy hands. They are either too high and wobbly or to low and wide and having no effect. Bah.

If anyone has a fool proof magic way to sort my hands out, there will be wine and cookies for all!!
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Try carrying a short whip horizontally, tucked under the joint of both thumbs. It makes you very aware of when a hand wobbles.
 
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