Where do i stand legally with mis sold horse?

[pippy91]

Hi, i bought a new horse 2 weeks ago. He is a 9yo british sports horse, grade c show jumper. I bought him to do a bit of everything with; event, hunt, riding club etc. I was looking for something that knew their job, but still needed a bit of work in other areas but was generally easy to do and get on with. He ticked all the boxes and was super when i tried him. We got him 5* vetted which he passed, and got receipts when we bought him. He worked lovely at home, nice and quiet easy to do like i was told, however when i took him to a local sj, he was perfect still in the warm until i went into the ring. He napped horrendously at the gate and when ever i pushed him on he would rear up, the more i pushed, the bigger and the higher he reared. I gave him a smack with my crop which made him start to buck. He was just evading my leg and knew fine well what he was doing. This is not what i was told he was like and not what he was advertised like. His old owners hadnt had him long and said they were selling him due to financial problems, however the day after i had picked him up, i seen on their facebook they had a new horse. Its got me thinking is this why they sold him, as he was so nappy and bad at rearing? I'm taking him away for a lesson with my instructor and going to video the whole lesson. My dad doesn't want me to keep the horse as he is dangerous when he rears. I have heard i legally have 4 weeks to return the horse, does anyone know if this is true, also does anyone know any good websites that have good advice on before we go to solicitors? Any help/advice would be most appreciated thanks.

 

[Black_Horse_White]

You need to write a letter to the previous owner explaining what has happened and giving them the option to buy back the horse. Give them 7 days to reply. Keep copies and send by registered post. Most people will say if it's a private sale then "Buyer beware" stands. I know talking from experience that thats not necessarily being the case. If they refuse then you can take them to the small claims court. Have a copy of the advert if you have one, and take a video of the horse misbehaving. Then if it does go to court take the video with you with something to play it on. If you can prove you were mis-sold the horse you have a very good chance of winning. Good luck.

 

[vieshot]

He may not have been mis-sold! He might have been everything they said he was at his previous home. Dont think you have much of a case.

 

[Black_Horse_White]

The horse that I sold was everything I said but I still got taken to court and lost. It's not always as cut and dried as people think.

 

[ELFSBELLS]

If it was a private sale I don't think you have a lot of options, unless of course they are decent folk and will buy him back, you have only had him 2 weeks, otherwise it could be a fight through the courts.

 

[be positive]

As its sounds like a private sale, rather than a trade one you dont really have much come back, certainly no period to return the horse.
If it was incorrectly described in the ad you could start by trying to return it stating that you will take legal advice but it could be very costly and more than the horse is worth.
Did you ask specific questions such as how it behaved in the ring, did you check its record and contact previous rider before purchase. If you had done these checks you may have found it had history of this behaviour.

Probably best to try and work through, maybe change its job or cut your losses and sell.

 

[L&M]

If you bought the horse privately I don't think you have much recourse. If you bought him from a dealer you may be able to ask for your money back. If you have BHS gold membership they have a legal help line, or the CAB may be able to advise.

As a matter of interest, have you contacted the previous owner as they may be able to shed light on the behaviour?

Also if I had only had a new horse 2 weeks I would personally give it more time to settle in before attending any events.

Good luck!

 

[Arizahn]

It's been 2 weeks; he barely knows you and vice versa! Get a professional trainer in to assess him, and have his teeth, back, feet, tack, saddle, diet, etc all checked.

You state in your post that you wanted something that knew it's job, needed some work, but generally good to handle...and that he has been fine up until the show ring itself. How has he been since then? Did he go on to jump that day? Has he reared/napped since?

It's possible that something happened to spook him badly on entering the ring - flash photography, horsefly, etc. One bad instance is a bit unfair to judge him on if he was fine before and since...

 

[Marydoll]

Did you get a warranty with the sale stating he was good to take out compete etc. ?
If you can, find out if they had similar problems ?
If you've no warranty and nothing in writing stating he was sold as suitable for the job, you may find it very difficult to get your money back if it was a private sale

 

[Black_Horse_White]

I sought lots of legal advice from consumer direct even my own insurance company. Went to a solicitor all said I couldn't lose as it's buyer beware and the horse only has to be as decribed ie colour age size etc. Only has to be suitable for purpose if bought from a dealer. Well it was worth jack, I had to buy the pony back and reimburse all livery costs etc. She only had the horse for 48 hrs when she wanted me to take her back. PM if you have any questions.

 

[xspiralx]

I take it this was a private sale?

It's a difficult one and I think you will struggle to have any legal comeback. With private sales it is very much buyer beware. Did they specifically state in the ad (or say to you, with witnesses), that the horse has never shown any tendency to nap or rear? Have they done much competing with it? Did they say he was well behaved at shows?

Even if they did I think you will find it hard to prove anything - after all, the horse behaves impeccably at home for you. They could easily claim that the horse has never shown that behaviour for them at a show.

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know exactly what your position will be legally, but I think you'll find it very tricky to prove any wrong doing.

If the horse is only exhibiting this behaviour when going into the ring, there's no reason he can't be ridden through it. I would advise getting a more experienced rider to push him through it, if you like the horse in other ways.

Otherwise you could try and return him, but if the owners won't take him back (and this seems likely), then your best bet may be to try and get this problem fixed by a professional. There's no harm of course in seeking legal advice - and you might have a case if you can prove they have lied in the ad.

 

[Sparkles]

If his old owners hadn't had him long, then how would they have known what he was like at competitions? They might not have even taken him anywhere?

 

[pippy91]

Thank you for replies.. Yes i asked about his behaviour and they said he was perfect, knew his job.. a good boy he did as he was told. I said i wasn't looking for anything complicated. I have been back in touch and they have said that they did this with them too when they first got him, and gave me some advice. I am getting a qualified instructor to help who has lots of experience. All the things you think of that could be problems have been checked, teeth, back, tack etc.
Once back at home he has been fine, nice and quiet and easy to ride. We took him away again and followed the advice his old owners gave us and he did the same thing again but was worse. I was told that i have to fast canter him so he cant stop, but when we viewed him i wasnt told this, and i said i want to dressage, how can i possibly do this in a dressage test. They said he would be perfect for it, which he would if it was at home! I am willing to try and work through it if my instructor thinks its worth it after my lesson which i have on Sunday.
The thing that makes me suspicious is i was told they weren't getting another horse due to financial problems, yet had one the very next day after i picked him up. Also if i had been told about this problem, i wouldn't of bought him. They have said he needs fast cantered, why didnt they say this when i went to view him, why tell me he was quiet in all ways, is this why they didnt have him long?

 

[SO1]

If the ex owners are implying that it is your riding techique that is causing the problem and the horse is perfect and experienced in competitions perhaps suggest that they come with you to a competition and get on the horse and take into a class to prove it is fine with them.

 

[Arizahn]

It's good that all physical stuff has been checkedYou are right to call in a professional; I wouldn't put much faith in his old owner's advice on how to ride him at a fast canter, etc! If he's perfect at home and in the warm up, then it's a problem with the ring itself. Can very probably be worked through BUT he may need to be retrained out of it by a professional/more experienced rider.

Good luck with him.

 

[Littlelegs]

What are the exact words on the receipt?

 

[Parker79]

hmmm- fast cantering, are they implying he needs to loosen up...is he cold backed?

Not sure on your comeback but investigate his back further perhaps? Also you haven't had him long, you may find that this is teething trouble.

 

[pippy91]

Also, yes they took him away competing, i have checked his records. I have seen pictures in videos ( i know you can't always trust them as you don't know when they were from) On the videos he was always going fast around the course and i noticed they really kicked him past the gate, which is where he napped and reared with me. I was later told when i contacted them that he had to be jumped in spurs. I was not told this when viewing him, and i did ask did he need them ora whip at any times. If he needs fast cantered all the time this isnt what i was looking for and shouldnt they of told me this when i viewed him.

 

[vieshot]

If hes so perfect at home then just take the pressure off him! Take him to a show and just graze him in-hand, maybe ride him round the warm up arena when you have been there a while, let him have a dinner tied to the trailer. Fun things! Sounds like competing has just been a forced, negative experience for him. If hes such a honey at home then im sure it wont take long to fix

 

[be positive]

The fact that they are now saying he needs to be ridden strongly into the ring, with spurs being required, is showing that they have had a problem but as far as they were concerned was sorted.
If that is the case it may be worth getting legal advice if you really want to take it further, if you could get someone that has seen him before it would help your case, they do seem to have changed their description since you purchased him.

 

[Parker79]

If hes so perfect at home then just take the pressure off him! Take him to a show and just graze him in-hand, maybe ride him round the warm up arena when you have been there a while, let him have a dinner tied to the trailer. Fun things! Sounds like competing has just been a forced, negative experience for him. If hes such a honey at home then im sure it wont take long to fix

^^^ totally agree...if he is lovely at home then eventually you will be able to replicate this at shows. Ask someone to lead you through the gate a few times, gently and slowly. If he is been galloped round the ring by someone riding in spurs then I am not surprised he doesn't want to enter the ring!

 

[Posie]

I think a problem people have is they buy the horse and not the rider! So whilst the horse may go perfectly for the old owner it may not for the new one. That is not the horses fault, and something people need to remember. They need to learn how to ride the horse, and if they are any good they will suceed..

 

[Goldenstar]

^^^ totally agree...if he is lovely at home then eventually you will be able to replicate this at shows. Ask someone to lead you through the gate a few times, gently and slowly. If he is been galloped round the ring by someone riding in spurs then I am not surprised he doesn't want to enter the ring!

Not necessary I took on a ring shy horse as a project. ( he was a good hunter so I had A fall back job ) I got him fine dressage 85% cross country but never cracked the show jumping.
Not sure if OP has a case though the sellers have a video of the horse completing they can play that in court the nuances of performance are likely to,be lost in front of the magistrates.
OP get specalist advice quickly and decide your way forward.

 

[horserugsnot4u]

Seems obvious as they got another horse straight away that they have lied about him to get rid. Whether or not you will get anywhere with a claim against them I couldn't say. It might help if anyone else can shed any light on horse's behaviour to prove owners knew of his problems. I can tell you I was misled when buying a pony for my 12yr old daughter and we stuck with him for nearly a year but had to give him away for nothing in the end. Never liked him or his attitude from day one and he did nothing to improve my opinion of him, even though I tried to get on with him for my daughters sake. If there's enough about him you like it's worth sticking with the problems for a while to see if they can be overcome. Good luck.

 

[pippy91]

I think a problem people have is they buy the horse and not the rider! So whilst the horse may go perfectly for the old owner it may not for the new one. That is not the horses fault, and something people need to remember. They need to learn how to ride the horse, and if they are any good they will suceed..

Yes i totally agree with you and am more then willing to work with the horse and get help, i have to wait until sunday when im having a lesson and see what my instructor says and advises me to do. Im just asking for advise on where i stand as the way it seems is they had the same problem as i am having now and i should of been told. I don't blame my horse at all, its not his fault the way he is behaving. But i can't give him the time he will need to work through this problem as i get ill quiet a lot, which is the reason i wanted something easy. I can get help keep him exercised when im not well, but i don't want someone else having my problem which i wont be able to sort myself with help, and won't sell him on until it is sorted as i wouldnt want him passed on and on, or hurt by anyone, so thats why im asking advice on where i can go with my situation.

 

[.Redmerl]

I really feel for you here. I got one that turned out to be more lively that the school master he was advertised as. Thankfully I had a trial period so he went back.
I might be unpopular here but if I buy a schoolmaster after 2 weeks I would expect to be able to do some small events with him, it may not be perfect but not I wouldn't expect that kind of reaction. I hope you get sorted. Maybe contact a solicitor for some advise?

 

[Parker79]

I really feel for you here. I got one that turned out to be more lively that the school master he was advertised as. Thankfully I had a trial period so he went back.
I might be unpopular here but if I buy a schoolmaster after 2 weeks I would expect to be able to do some small events with him, it may not be perfect but not I wouldn't expect that kind of reaction. I hope you get sorted. Maybe contact a solicitor for some advise?

Dont worry about being unpopular...everyone can have their own opinion. I think that even the best 'schoolmaster' types can become unsettled when changing hands. Yes there are some that are unphazed by everything! but I think they are few and far between. She didn't buy a 'schoolmaster' she opted for an experienced horse. Obviously if they knew he would rear then she should have been aware by the sellers.

OP - I also hope you manage to sort this out either way.

 

[Littlelegs]

Legally it depends on what the receipt, advert & any third parties say, eg comp evidence etc.

 

[Miss L Toe]

I think a problem people have is they buy the horse and not the rider! So whilst the horse may go perfectly for the old owner it may not for the new one. That is not the horses fault, and something people need to remember. They need to learn how to ride the horse, and if they are any good they will suceed..

The old owners have shifted position from it being push button to needing spurs and cantering fast [so he cannot rear]
Ask them to take the horse back, verbally, and in writing if they refuse. The horse is not fit for purpose and they knew you would have problems, did they look like they had several horses and were trading [google phone number] or other ads of theirs.
If they don't respond favourably, send them another letter advising them that "you want to avoid legal action, associated costs, plus livery and other fees which are increasing day on day."
"The horse is not fit for purpose".

 

[Bernster]

Bear in mind this forum is littered with posts about unsettled horses in a new home, and 2 weeks really isn't any time at all for him to get used to new owner, yard and routine!!

By all means explore legal routes and return options, but don't rule out that he may just need some time and poss'y some professional help.

Private buyers your rights are more limited, dealers you have better protection but even then it's long and expensive - and I'm a lawyer