Where do I stand?

If you have it on a message but there reason for asking you to move horse 2/leave was they hadn't been asked about moving horse 1, have you re-sent them/screenshot and politely/without antagonizing pointed out that you did ask? If nothing else keep that screenshot for the small claims case incase part of their defence is just they weren't asked
 
I thought it was going to continue rehab, not just for 2 weeks which I would think is is barely worthwhile, I expected several months away to make a significant impact and unless you explained it was only 2 weeks your YO possibly thought the same, her behaviour is not acceptable, and I did not say it was, but your OP did not say you were only moving for a short time so maybe your message was also not clear.
 
Bellaboo18 said:
To be honest as long as you were still paying livery for both horses and not expecting to not pay while your horse was away the YO has lost the plot.
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Yep, both yards were being paid- so I was paying for rehab livery and paying for both my stables. I did say that on the message and that he would be coming back.

When I questioned the money, she advised that I didn't give notice and I've broke contract by not asking- I questioned this and then she blocked me.

@Ambers Echo- this is my thoughts exactly- I've filed the small claim and she's extended the deadline already so I think they are doing something out of spite.

@Gingerwitch - Others have been the vets and they've been fine- I don't understand their reasoning at all. I think they've taken advantage and under estimated my age- I'm 31!

@ Chaps- Yes I did- she then said it wasn't up for discussion and gave me my 7 days- I even offered to bring the horse back had I misunderstood the message (which I don't get how I would- her words "it's up to you". She then blocked me.

@ be possitive- The horse has been in rehab for months with me, this part was just at the end for horse walker and strength building as I'm not fit to be riding as yet. I did say it was for a few weeks and he would be returning.
 
be positive said:
I thought it was going to continue rehab, not just for 2 weeks which I would think is is barely worthwhile, I expected several months away to make a significant impact and unless you explained it was only 2 weeks your YO possibly thought the same, her behaviour is not acceptable, and I did not say it was, but your OP did not say you were only moving for a short time so maybe your message was also not clear.
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I'll also say the horse will continue rehab with me once I'm fit to be riding. I'm still in work so was unable to keep going temporarily and horse can not have time off.
 
Lucy-Jay said:
Yep, both yards were being paid- so I was paying for rehab livery and paying for both my stables. I did say that on the message and that he would be coming back.

When I questioned the money, she advised that I didn't give notice and I've broke contract by not asking- I questioned this and then she blocked me.

@Ambers Echo- this is my thoughts exactly- I've filed the small claim and she's extended the deadline already so I think they are doing something out of spite.

@Gingerwitch - Others have been the vets and they've been fine- I don't understand their reasoning at all. I think they've taken advantage and under estimated my age- I'm 31!

@ Chaps- Yes I did- she then said it wasn't up for discussion and gave me my 7 days- I even offered to bring the horse back had I misunderstood the message (which I don't get how I would- her words "it's up to you". She then blocked me.

@ be possitive- The horse has been in rehab for months with me, this part was just at the end for horse walker and strength building as I'm not fit to be riding as yet. I did say it was for a few weeks and he would be returning.
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Ah be careful here because your two weeks has changed to a few weeks.
 
Bellaboo18 said:
Ah be careful here because your two weeks has changed to a few weeks.
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Regardless of that though- their reasoning for giving me notice was that I didn't ask and by not asking, I've broken my contract- when I clearly did and can evidence that. They then chose to give me 7 days, with me paying in advance up to 1st May. All I'm asking is for my livery to be pro rata'd and refunded given that I've done nothing wrong.
 
Bellaboo18 said:
Ah be careful here because your two weeks has changed to a few weeks.
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Does that matter? YO could have said no or could have said as long as the stable is still paid for.

The fact that the stable was still being paid for means that it was only out of manners that OP asked, rather than told, YO that horse would be away.

YO could also have said that horse can go but wouldnt be allowed back until after lockdown.

From the details given the YO behaviour makes no sense at all aside from they were waiting for an opportunity to make a space for someone else that wanted on the yard.

If they just refunded the money that would be an end to it but instead they have blocked OP and wouldnt communicate with her and now have to go through the court system
 
Lucy-Jay said:
Regardless of that though- their reasoning for giving me notice was that I didn't ask and by not asking, I've broken my contract- when I clearly did and can evidence that. They then chose to give me 7 days, with me paying in advance up to 1st May. All I'm asking is for my livery to be pro rata'd and refunded given that I've done nothing wrong.
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I'm not saying you're in the wrong at all. Just saying make sure you get your story straight, even if that's that your horse was being sent away for the foreseeable future. It doesn't matter if you were still paying your fees. Hope you get sorted.
 
I've also tried to be diplomatic, tried to call instead of message- which they've refused to talk. They've lied to my mum by saying I never asked when clearly I did and I feel they were unreasonable in expecting me to load my other horse up on the road.

I'm happy to pay for the 7 day notice period they gave me (even though I left on Day 1 of the period), but this still leaves 18 days to be refunded, which they wont do because of reasons stated above.

The whole thing has completely baffled me.
 
TPO said:
Does that matter? YO could have said no or could have said as long as the stable is still paid for.

The fact that the stable was still being paid for means that it was only out of manners that OP asked, rather than told, YO that horse would be away.

YO could also have said that horse can go but wouldnt be allowed back until after lockdown.

From the details given the YO behaviour makes no sense at all aside from they were waiting for an opportunity to make a space for someone else that wanted on the yard.

If they just refunded the money that would be an end to it but instead they have blocked OP and wouldnt communicate with her and now have to go through the court system
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No not at all but I think it's better that OP doesn't chop between a few weeks, 2 weeks etc.
I imagine the yard owners line of defence is going to be she believed the horse was moving for good with little notice given.
Just a thought.
 
Bellaboo18 said:
No not at all but I think it's better that OP doesn't chop between a few weeks, 2 weeks etc.
I imagine the yard owners line of defence is going to be she believed the horse was moving for good with little notice given.
Just a thought.
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But there was still no contract and she did also say "it's up to me". I had no intention of leaving the yard. I've loved it there.
 
I get so tired of YOs. There must be a set of rules these businesses must adhere to. As a minimum they should have a business licence which must come with a set of legal requirements. It would be interesting to investigate this yourself prior to presenting yourself in a small claims court. First actions - obtain a reference from the small claims court, send a letter by recorded mail to YO with court reference number, stating your intention to take legal action against her, writing a timeline, the fact that no notice had been given, only permission to send your horse for medically required rehabilitation with the intention of it returning to its stable that you had and were still paying for. You need to stick to absolute, irrefutable evidence based text with no threats (empty or otherwise). Be clear of what you want out of this. In parallel, approach whichever council they fall under and learn what they have to adhere to as a business. There may even be a way you can lodge a complaint against them as a business? Never back down unless it is clear you are at fault. Witnesses and paper trails are your friend. Good luck!
 
The whole thing is just completely baffling and like I mentioned, I expect something else is going on. In my eyes and what others have said- I'm the perfect livery. No bother and pay in advance.

@Green Bean this is exactly what I have done. They had the letter stating if not paid in 7 days then small claims would be filed. This took me to Friday last week so I submitted it. I listed all of my evidence which I have screen shots of and on the timeline, I mentioned that she blocked me (Ihave the screen shot of this also).

After I submitted, I assume she had an email, and she's asked for a further 14 days to respond (I think this is out of spite) which is why I emailed BHS, who are in support of what has happened. She then funnily enough unblocked me (I've not messaged her but will now allow me to send a message). She's been quite emotionally driven in her messages, even saying "why don't you get your mum to call again" as if I'm some sort of child whos told on, I haven't risen to anyof this and kept it factual.

In a way, I'm glad they didn't answer as I've now got the full trail as evidence!
 
I get that alot of YO are doing what is necessary but I personally feel that alot of YO are seeing this as an excuse to take charge of others horses and their welfare.

Having just left a yard where a cow farmer thought that they knew my horse better than I did- I don't agree with some of the restrictions in place and feel, like Italy and France, there should be more guidelines and not leaving it up to a YO discretion.

Is this the same yard you describe in the above quote? if so there was obviously more going on than a perceived breech of contract and moving the first horse may have been seen as you moving out quietly without notice.

You have to remember most YO's are bonkers and the current situation will be sending many more that way:eek:
 
be positive said:
I get that alot of YO are doing what is necessary but I personally feel that alot of YO are seeing this as an excuse to take charge of others horses and their welfare.

Having just left a yard where a cow farmer thought that they knew my horse better than I did- I don't agree with some of the restrictions in place and feel, like Italy and France, there should be more guidelines and not leaving it up to a YO discretion.

Is this the same yard you describe in the above quote? if so there was obviously more going on than a perceived breech of contract and moving the first horse may have been seen as you moving out quietly without notice.

You have to remember most YO's are bonkers and the current situation will be sending many more that way:eek:
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Yes this is the same yard- This was after I asked to send away and she said it was up to me... she then went on to say "why don't you just take him down the farm ride" I can only assume at this point she was trying to be nice but clearly, she has no idea!
 
Lucy-Jay said:
Yes this is the same yard- This was after I asked to send away and she said it was up to me... she then went on to say "why don't you just take him down the farm ride" I can only assume at this point she was trying to be nice but clearly, she has no idea!
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Also nothing else going on, this statement was just that, a statement by YO in the same conversation as my asking to send him away. Even so, instead of acting irrationally, had she picked up the phone and handled it in a more businesslike manner, I could have got rid of the confusion.

I would also like to say that she very much knows the yard I was sending him to does not take liveries so it was common sense that the horse would be coming back.

She also knows my horse has had KS surgery and PSD, and how much I have invested into his rehab.
 
As a yard owner who is doing a lot of extra work to help liveries through this time of crisis (even if they can’t always see it!) I resent that statement that most yard owners are bonkers! You wanna try buying and running one, you’ll see it from a completely different side!

Anyway back to the original issue. The YO seems very strange in that she’s saying you didn’t give the required notice (even though you didn’t want to leave), yet didn’t give you more than a week herself. She also can’t say the notice period is a week if she then keeps three weeks money. The other weird thing is she’s being funny about you moving your horse anywhere, but is quite happy for others to move on. There’s no logic! The only thing I wonder is if perhaps there have been other Anyway niggles/issues that have made her go enough is enough? I hope your claim goes through. Let us know.
 
Honey08 said:
As a yard owner who is doing a lot of extra work to help liveries through this time of crisis (even if they can’t always see it!) I resent that statement that most yard owners are bonkers! You wanna try buying and running one, you’ll see it from a completely different side!

Anyway back to the original issue. The YO seems very strange in that she’s saying you didn’t give the required notice (even though you didn’t want to leave), yet didn’t give you more than a week herself. She also can’t say the notice period is a week if she then keeps three weeks money. The other weird thing is she’s being funny about you moving your horse anywhere, but is quite happy for others to move on. There’s no logic! The only thing I wonder is if perhaps there have been other Anyway niggles/issues that have made her go enough is enough? I hope your claim goes through. Let us know.
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Nothing from my side in terms of niggles. Like I said, alot of the time I'm there late, dont cause any rubbish and pay early!
 
Honey08 said:
As a yard owner who is doing a lot of extra work to help liveries through this time of crisis (even if they can’t always see it!) I resent that statement that most yard owners are bonkers! You wanna try buying and running one, you’ll see it from a completely different side!

Anyway back to the original issue. The YO seems very strange in that she’s saying you didn’t give the required notice (even though you didn’t want to leave), yet didn’t give you more than a week herself. She also can’t say the notice period is a week if she then keeps three weeks money. The other weird thing is she’s being funny about you moving your horse anywhere, but is quite happy for others to move on. There’s no logic! The only thing I wonder is if perhaps there have been other Anyway niggles/issues that have made her go enough is enough? I hope your claim goes through. Let us know.
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As a long term YO it was said partly tongue in cheek, I do think we put up with a lot and most of us do have the best interests of the owners in mind, obviously the horses come first:), if we were not a bit bonkers we would not have horses to start with, they generally keep us just about sane.
 
Awful for the YO to act like that.

Also if it was for any COVID reasons I.e horse leaving and coming back whilst handled by other people - the fact they have filled your stables with, I assume, new liveries completely discounts that theory! Don’t let them even try that.

Think NHS needs to start listing ‘general tw*tiness’ as a symptom of COVID-19z
 
It does all sound a bit strange and unreasonable I have worked for yards over the years and admit some yo are completely nuts but some were great and really lovely people, sounds like your better off out of there I would pursue the money owed though.

I do know some yo don't like horses going away for periods because although they are getting the stable rent, other profit through bedding and hay is lost so they effectively loose money that way, I have known some to still want the whole lot paid as if the horse is there when it's not! That's the thing I can think of that would cause this to happen especially if they had other liveries to fill the stables.
 
The only explanation I would think is that the YO may be on the verge of some sort of breakdown and you were unfortunately on the receiving end of it. A normally rational person suddenly acting like this sounds like a person on the edge.

If the YO says you broke contract then they should be able to produce a signed contract (which doesn't exist) so I would persue getting a refund. Its not an insignificant amount of money. What an upsetting situation.
 
Do you mean you raised a small claim and they paid up? Because i don't think you have had time for it to have gone through the small claims process yet?

Is a great system, it costs only £25 to do, it's all online, and the first notification is often enough to get people to pay up.

.
 
ycbm said:
Do you mean you raised a small claim and they paid up? Because i don't think you have had time for it to have gone through the small claims process yet?

Is a great system, it costs only £25 to do, it's all online, and the first notification is often enough to get people to pay up.

.
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Yes I filed a small claims court which cost £25 on 17th April. It went straight to them and they refused it adding in their points. Because the cost was under £500 it HAS to go through mediation before going to court. Someone called me, listened to my side, listened to the evidence that I had. They then took this to them and explained what I had said, what I'm looking for and where I stood on the situation. They then offered me a ridiculous amount which I refused (they were still saying I didn't say during lockdown so I read the message out!) then they gave me my full amount.
 
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TPO said:
2 days later during a pandemic....they wanted you gone to let this person on the yard I reckon!
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This happened to me, some bizarre and untrue accusation, told to leave and what do you know - her best friend moved into my stables the following day. I left the day it happened, I couldn’t stay somewhere like that.
 
Glad this worked out for you in terms of the small claims and having a backup plan for your horses.

Yard owners are bonkers. You'd have to be in order to be one. ? Couldn't pay me enough to be a YO. If I were, I'd be very, very, selective and probably hated by many.

I've seen similar situations before when someone wants to come to the yard, the YO wants them there (due to being friends, the person has money, a clique, and so on) and looks to bump someone else off of the yard to have space for the new person. They'll bump whoever they aren't attached to. Doesn't matter if it is a low drama pay on time client. They're short sighted and want this new person NOW. Sometimes it blows up in their face because the new person is cray or the relationship sours. Again, short sighted business plan.
 
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