Whip/crop/stick - Outdated or legitimate aid?

[jkitten]

To be upfront, I am coming at this from a position of total ignorance and am hoping to learn from the collective wisdom of the forum. Right now I don't have a position for or against. I've tried to make the post title as un-baity as possible.

For context, when I learned to ride at a riding school 20-25 years ago, whips were standard, everybody carried one and they were used to encourage speed. Not talking about wailing on the horse, but it was accepted that there were certain horses that needed quite a hard smack on the bum to get them into a decent stride during the first canter of the class, even in the upper classes. The instructor would tell the student to use the whip if she felt it necessary, and after that the horse would pick up the pace and not need anything except leg for the rest of the class.

Fast forward to now, I returned to riding last year at a small riding school that is generally very caring and meticulous about their horses' well-being. From the start every horse they have given me has been reasonably off the leg so I don't know if they use the whip in the same way as my old riding school, but they do use it to remind the horse of its manners (sorry the phrasing is awkward, I can't think of any other way to put it). For example, the first horse I rode there had a tendency to slow from a canter to a trot in the gate corner of the school, but I found if I have her a tap on the shoulder a stride or two before she would sail around quite happily that time and for the rest of the lesson. This was in one of my first returning lessons, though, so maybe now that I have improved somewhat I might not need it, I don't know. Regardless, after I did that my instructor complimented me on 'knowing the horse and riding accordingly'. There have been a couple of other instances in the 18 months since when he has told me to 'give him/her a tap on the shoulder', always when the horse is clearly making itself awkward on purpose. So far it has always worked and the horse stops whatever it was doing and returned to being polite. He is usually highly attentive to the horse's comfort and well-being when being ridden, and normally is very focussed on teaching his students to ride in a way that is most comfortable for the horse, that will not confuse or distress them, etc, which I just mention because I have read stories here of some instructors encouraging whip use who very much don't sound like they are.

I didn't really think anything of using the whip in this way when warranted, until this evening I was speaking to a horsey friend (with much more experience than myself), who mentioned that she felt the whip had fallen out of favour in modern times. I'm now wondering what other people think? Is it a useful/legitimate aid, or has it had its day and I should look to start riding without?

Edit: Apologies in advance if this is one of those 'done to death' topics, I did try some googling and searching on the forum but all I could come up with was racing specific, which I think is a different kettle of fish altogether?

 

[bouncing_ball]

I pretty much always ride with a whip though don’t necessarily use it.

It is important horse goes without it as can’t use in championships Etc.

I’d personally prefer to always carry one on hacking and on road, always wear Hiviz, always hack in breastplate, body protector and martingale etc.

 

[teapot]

I think it will and should always have a place imho (thinking those moments out hacking when no amount of human power is going to help, but a sharp smack will). I will always ride with one, unless specifically told otherwise.

In riding schools it's tricky, because a) most kids are so ineffectual with a short stick it rarely makes contact, and b) rs ponies are wily energy savers who know exactly how little they can get away with, but the combination of kids flapping and waving sticks around may not necessarily look good to the outside observer.

In a previous life, I used to allocate and we had various levels of kids groups, and the horses was levelled too. We'd have the lower level plods, who were safe for the beginners, slow, steady, zero effort, but would come into their own at higher levels. Used to get mums and kids coming in moaning every weekend that 'Dobbin is a low level horse, I'm now x level, why am I riding him?' Hour later 'omg he was amazing' - the horse hadn't changed, their riding had, and within that, it was learning the art of when, how, where (ie by the gate) to use a whip.

ETS I will say I don't think anyone should be learning on horses that require constant nagging/chasing/wont go forwards - as you can never truly learn to ride but that's a wider issue that needs looking at. Even the best rs horses may sometimes need a whip aid.

 

[Quigleyandme]

I never carry one hacking. I will use a jumping bat but more to press into a shoulder than anything else. I carry a cane when sidesaddle but really only because it is part of the uniform. I have nothing against carrying a stick, often wished I had one to brush off deer flies etc., I just don’t bother.

 

[jkitten]

I think it will and should always have a place imho (thinking those moments out hacking when no amount of human power is going to help, but a sharp smack will).

In riding schools it's tricky, because a) most kids are so ineffectual with a short stick it rarely makes contact, and b) rs ponies are wily energy savers who know exactly how little they can get away with, but the combination of kids flapping and waving sticks around may not necessarily look good to the outside observer.

In a previous life, I used to allocate and we had various levels of kids groups, and the horses was levelled too. We'd have the lower level plods, who were safe for the beginners, slow, steady, zero effort, but would come into their own at higher levels. Used to get mums and kids coming in moaning every weekend that Dobbin was a low level horse, I'm now x level, why am I riding him? Hour later 'omg he was amazing' - the horse hadn't changed, their riding had, and within that, it was learning the art of when, how, where (ie by the gate) to use a whip.

ETS I will say I don't think anyone should be learning on horses that require constant nagging/chasing/wont go forwards - as you can never truly learn to ride but that's easier said than done in reality.

That's a good point about some riding schools and proper beginner-beginners. I should specify that I've been really lucky in that respect, both riding schools I've been on had ponies suitable for every rider. Neither would have allowed a student to use the whip in place of other aids, but also neither would put a student on a horse they could not expect to move at their current skill level. That would be enough to put anyone off IMO.

 

[teapot]

That's a good point about some riding schools and proper beginner-beginners. I should specify that I've been really lucky in that respect, both riding schools I've been on had ponies suitable for every rider. Neither would have allowed a student to use the whip in place of other aids, but also neither would put a student on a horse they could not expect to move at their current skill level. That would be enough to put anyone off IMO.

Thing is in reality rs ponies take the piss. Pony A may be 100% suitable for client x but not y, Pony B may only suit client z. You would be VERY lucky to have multiple horses that went the same for every rider. Unless you've watched lessons for ten hours a day like I used to (I could predict falls based on rider level, time of day, certain ponies, weather) you won't actually know how a horse will go for someone, and learning the aid of using a stick is as important as learning how to ask for canter. It's a skill that could save someone.

 

[pistolpete]

Never really use one but am asked to carry one hacking share horse. Would maybe be useful moving a branch out of the way or opening a gate. Wouldn’t want to ride a horse that had to be hit for impulsion. That’s just me.

 

[mariew]

I think a dressage whip can be just as useful as a leg aid if I want to remind a horse to use its backend. But I generally only use it to tickle not whack. Leg aids can be just as bad, or spurs etc. It's not what it is, it's how you use it. (generalising here).

 

[Cortez]

Like so many things, it's all about how you use it (or don't, as the case may be). It's a tool not a weapon, and should be a very delicate one at that. Used to refine and 'point' the aids, and yes as a reprimand if needed, but never to hurt the horse.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I usually carry one as back up, but it's only an aid, to be used lightly if needed. I never use it to admonish the horse.

It's most useful in horse fly season, to brush off the beggars.

 

[jkitten]

Thing is in reality rs ponies take the piss. Pony A may be 100% suitable for client x but not y, Pony B may only suit client z. You would be VERY lucky to have multiple horses that went the same for every rider. Unless you've watched lessons for ten hours a day like I used to (I could predict falls based on rider level, time of day, certain ponies, weather) you won't actually know how a horse will go for someone, and learning the aid of using a stick is as important as learning how to ask for canter. It's a skill that could save someone.

That's absolutely fair, and like I said until this evening I hadn't thought twice about occasional use of a stick, not to beat the horse into submission or anything but more as a 'dude you're being a tw*t and you know you're being a tw*t, kindly knock it off now' type of thing.

 

[Peglo]

I rode my TB with one. It felt like a safety blanket when I rode her. I didn’t use it much, just in emergency’s, and if I tried to use it when she was being maresh shall we say she would just threaten to kick her legs up so only used it if I really needed it.
I personally think they have their place but I hate seeing them being used as punishment. Seeing people smacking their horse 3 times with one for refusing a jump is just awful.

 

[GreyDot]

I never carry one hacking, but as Cortez put it perfectly, it's a tool. And a great reminder to tap on the hind quarters to aid a movement. Never as a punishment, no matter how arsey the horse is.

 

[jkitten]

I usually carry one as back up, but it's only an aid, to be used lightly if needed. I never use it to admonish the horse.

Would you mind expanding on that? Back-up for what? Sorry if it's a stupid question, still very much a novice here! ?

 

[jkitten]

I rode my TB with one. It felt like a safety blanket when I rode her. I didn’t use it much, just in emergency’s, and if I tried to use it when she was being maresh shall we say she would just threaten to kick her legs up so only used it if I really needed it.
I personally think they have their place but I hate seeing them being used as punishment. Seeing people smacking their horse 3 times with one for refusing a jump is just awful.

Another request for clarification if you wouldn't mind? What sort of emergencies? Thanks in advance! ?

 

[norolim]

I ride at a riding school and carry a stick during lessons but I can't remember the last time I used it and could probably count the number of times I've been instructed to use it since I took up lessons on one hand. Never as punishment and only if all other aids have failed.

For me as a learner, I'm just in the habit of having it on me now but as my riding has progressed, so has the responsiveness of RS ponies!

 

[SO1]

I use a schooling whip.

I have tested it on myself so I know how it feels and what is a tap and what causes pain. I don't use it a way that would cause pain.

It is useful out hacking as you can use it to stop cars getting too close or brush off flies. It could be also used in an emergency if horse was not responding and you were in a dangerous situation.

 

[jkitten]

I use a schooling whip.

I have tested it on myself so I know how it feels and what is a tap and what causes pain. I don't use it a way that would cause pain.

I've done the same test, it was very informative!

 

[Peglo]

Another request for clarification if you wouldn't mind? What sort of emergencies? Thanks in advance! ?

she was acting the goat and started backing towards a drop to the shore (calling it a cliff would be reaching but certainly didn’t want to go over it) so she got a smack to get her to listen to me.
another example was when she tried to kick a tractor because it had passed us twice already. She was never going to win that fight.

 

[Bob notacob]

The fundamental problem with having any sort of stick in your hand ,for flatwork, is that it affects the fluidity of ones hands. It unbalances the contact to the mouth. I hate watching riding school lessons where riders are given a schooling whip they cant use without jabbing the horse in the mouth . IMHO riding school horses mostly need a tap with a short stick and someone screaming at the rider if they dare to do it without taking that hand off the rein.

 

[SO1]

Backing into a barbed wire fence, or large ditch or shying into oncoming traffic.

Another request for clarification if you wouldn't mind? What sort of emergencies? Thanks in advance! ?

 

[teapot]

The fundamental problem with having any sort of stick in your hand ,for flatwork, is that it affects the fluidity of ones hands. It unbalances the contact to the mouth. I hate watching riding school lessons where riders are given a schooling whip they cant use without jabbing the horse in the mouth . IMHO riding school horses mostly need a tap with a short stick and someone screaming at the rider if they dare to do it without taking that hand off the rein.

Schooling whips weren't allowed below a certain level where I was They were kept under lock and key, ie under my desk at one point.

 

[AntiPuck]

I do like to have one for hacking, because there are some situations where a sharp interruption in the form of a smack is needed to prevent something dangerous happening (hopefully, this will be a last-resort, though), and also because if a badly-trained dog goes for your horse, at least you have some small means of defending yourself.

However, I really don't like to use them for anything else, it does feel somewhat outdated.

 

[Wishfilly]

I do think that crops have fallen out of favour a bit, actually, since I was a child learning to ride in the 90s. Obviously a lot of people still use them, especially riding on the roads/out hacking but they definitely aren't ubiquitous any more. FWIW, I don't usually ride with one on my pony as I've never felt I needed one and it would be another think to drop/forget/lose!

I've also worked at a riding school/trekking center where in general we didn't generally encourage people to ride with crops, although they were obviously used e.g. when training people for exams, and in some cases for long term clients riding specific horses. Especially out hacking, our horses just didn't need them, and as we had a lot of tourists riding with us we didn't want someone giving an already forward horse a "tap" at the start of a canter and being run off with. But those horses very much knew their jobs and in that scenario we were taking people for a nice ride in the countryside rather than teaching as such (except in cases of people who'd never ridden out and up and down hills before).

I do think increasingly people think more about the type of aids they are using and if they need them at all, though!

ETA: I do sometimes think it would be good to carry a schooling whip to deal with loose dogs, though!

 

[sky1000]

Yes it is tricky isn't it. I can see the place for it in saving a situation sometimes, as said above - shying into traffic eg or stopping backing into something dangerous. But out hacking on ponies I knew, my loan pony or my own, I never carried one. I really don't think it would have helped because of their particular natures and previous experience.

I can see how it would be useful for flies and traffic. Edited to add 'and dogs'

I suppose it might tell a riding school or trekking pony you meant business. But on the other hand I found on riding holidays if you stopped them eating when they felt like it they knew that anyway.

When I first learnt to ride I understood it was to back up the leg, and stop having to pony club kick, because they would respond more quickly off the leg next time. But another riding school I went to (later in life) who had gone a bit more dressagey, used to use a stick in a sort of tickley way. I never quite understood that.

 

[Cortez]

I’m a dressage rider, so the idea of whacking a horse ‘in an emergency’ is not really on my radar - I would only use a schooling whip as a tap or very light flick to sharpen up a reaction to leg or seat aid. It’s an extension to your arm when working in-hand, a support for your leg when riding, and a physical ‘pointer’ for the advanced movements like piaffe, paso español, capriole, etc. (not that we’re doing too many caprioles these days).

 

[Caol Ila]

My dressage whip has LED lights, so it's useful indeed when you get caught out by daylight. I also like pointing it 90 degrees from my hip/the horse's side into the road, as an extra barrier for cars to navigate around. It makes a useful sword when hassled by obnoxious dogs -- if you flail it towards one in anger, they often back down. I never leave the yard without it.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Would you mind expanding on that? Back-up for what? Sorry if it's a stupid question, still very much a novice here! ?

A light tap from the whip to back up the leg aid when schooling can be effective. You can practice tapping the whip on your own leg to assess the degree of force needed - hardly anything.

I wouldn't hack out without one. Say the horse is spooking out into the road at a cow sticking her head out through a hedge while a car is coming up fast behind you. A tap with the whip behind the saddle on the off side to remind the horse that you are in charge, thank you very much, so please move back to the correct side of the road, and do it now.

 

[Petalpoos]

Latterly, I always used to take a hunting crop with me when hacking. Very useful for gates and sweeping overhanging branches away and would also swat a fly, but I would never dream of hitting my horse with it. Somehow it seemed more ’brutal’ than a regular crop although I admit to having given a few whacks to horses in my past to persuade them to behave or go forward when napping. I am not sure if I would do that now, but I do now question a lot of the things that I thought were acceptable in the past.

 

[bouncing_ball]

I've done the same test, it was very informative!

I hack with a padded racing whip. It makes a noise and you can feel it, but it’s really hard to cause pain with it. I’ve tried on myself. You need to REALLY use it hard to be at all painful.