Who struggles with watching racing due to fatalities?

Black Beastie said:
This is going to sound cold but horses die in every sport, wouldnt be the first time at local event Ive watched a totally distraught rider carrying his/her tack :(
Click to expand...
Oh gosh you've reminded me of that event horse that got stuck in the belly by the broken fence flag post a couple of years ago. I rarely watch eventing but saw that! :(

This is nub for me... it's sport, not life or death. Is it acceptable to put an animal at so much risk for a sport? I guess we will all never agree on this.
 
amandap said:
Oh gosh you've reminded me of that event horse that got stuck in the belly by the broken fence flag post a couple of years ago. I rarely watch eventing but saw that! :(

This is nub for me... it's sport, not life or death. Is it acceptable to put an animal at so much risk for a sport? I guess we will all never agree on this.
Click to expand...

I remember that, it's really really stuck with me :( I was hoping beyond hope that the horse would make it, but it sadly didn't. Seeing the blood gushing out was the worst part :(

Everything to do with horses is far too dangerous for everyone concerned. It makes me wonder why I do it sometimes.
 
Nah said:
I remember that, it's really really stuck with me :( I was hoping beyond hope that the horse would make it, but it sadly didn't. Seeing the blood gushing out was the worst part :(
Click to expand...
I think it hit a major vein. The blood loss was too fast and huge to save the horse. :( Very distressing to see. :(
 
I have never watched it, refuse to support it. Horrid sport. I compete so I know there are fatalities in eventing etc. however nowhere NEAR the amount in racing. And its the amount of horses ruined by being started too young and ending up shot by the age of 4.
 
RunToEarth said:
I know people will come back and say they are running with fear, they have it drummed into them, but I disagree.
Click to expand...
I don't think it is drummed into them (i.e. taught) as much as it is instinctive - running with the herd, as Amandap said. For that reason, I would doubt they are running "for the love of it" either. In the Horsepower documentary a couple of years ago, Luca Cumani said that racing harnesses the flight instinct of the horse. I think that is the most plausible explanation for why horses that unseat their jockeys continue to run. They don't want to get separated from their 'herdmates' because in the wild they are then more vulnerable to predation. In my opinion, they aren't experiencing significant fear when they race, because so much of it has become routine. Neither do I think they are experiencing joy, although horses clearly appear to run for pleasure in some situations, e.g. in play and when given freedom after confinement. It is work which they accept, and which is compatible with their natural instincts.
 
fburton said:
I don't think it is drummed into them (i.e. taught) as much as it is instinctive - running with the herd, as Amandap said. For that reason, I would doubt they are running "for the love of it" either. In the Horsepower documentary a couple of years ago, Luca Cumani said that racing harnesses the flight instinct of the horse. I think that is the most plausible explanation for why horses that unseat their jockeys continue to run. They don't want to get separated from their 'herdmates' because in the wild they are then more vulnerable to predation. In my opinion, they aren't experiencing significant fear when they race, because so much of it has become routine. Neither do I think they are experiencing joy, although horses clearly appear to run for pleasure in some situations, e.g. in play and when given freedom after confinement. It is work which they accept, and which is compatible with their natural instincts.
Click to expand...

Brilliant post fburton!
 
amandap said:
Oh gosh you've reminded me of that event horse that got stuck in the belly by the broken fence flag post a couple of years ago. I rarely watch eventing but saw that! :(

This is nub for me... it's sport, not life or death. Is it acceptable to put an animal at so much risk for a sport? I guess we will all never agree on this.
Click to expand...

The difference between that injury and National Hunt racing deaths is that the eventing accident was entirely unforeseen and unplanned. The horse or rider snapped a marker flag support, which flew up and stabbed it.

As a result, marker flag posts were changed immediately the accident had been analysed on BE courses, to prevent the same accident being able to happen again.

NH racing predictably kills horse after horse after horse and no changes will be made because it is simply an accepted part of the sport.
 
Maesfen said:
If you don't like it, don't watch it, nobody's forcing you to, it's personal choice completely but it's like saying you can't watch anyone cross the road as they might be hit by a bus - then again, they might not; both are accidents and while always regrettable, not always preventable.
Click to expand...

Life is not livable without crossing roads. The whole economy of the world would have to cease. The same is not true of horses being killed by National Hunt racing, which is run predominantly to give betting companies stuff for them to sell to generate revenues.

The only thing "accidental" about National Hunt racing deaths is what the particular name of the horse will be. The death numbers over a season are fairly steady and sadly far too predictable.
 
Last edited:
djlynwood said:
Have horses died at Cheltenham recently? I hadnt heard anything about it.
Click to expand...


5 last year. 1 today, wonder what the end total will be by the time the meet finishes.

And don't forget that for every death, others will be taken home and then shot because of injuries sustained while they were racing.
 
cptrayes said:
The difference between that injury and National Hunt racing deaths is that the eventing accident was entirely unforeseen and unplanned. The horse or rider snapped a marker flag support, which flew up and stabbed it.

As a result, marker flag posts were changed immediately the accident had been analysed on BE courses, to prevent the same accident being able to happen again.

NH racing predictably kills horse after horse after horse and no changes will be made because it is simply an accepted part of the sport.
Click to expand...

I think this is what bothers me. Horses die and as far as I can see, not that much is done about it. I also remember the flag post change, which I thought was fab!
 
The BE flag pole thing was clearly a freak accident. Then saying that all racing deaths are predictable is kind of glossing over/not mentioning the fact that many event horses (and riders!) die by falling over fences - the same way racehorses do. What is there to say that eventers, show jumpers, dressagers dont take their horses home and shoot them because they are injured? Those sports arent in the public eye as much and what you dont see doesnt hurt you.
 
As for not seeing changes being made - there are plenty. New hurdles are being made to be more forgiving. Fences arent stuffed so much so they arent as solid and stiff when you hit them. The National fences are being made smaller - which in my opinion will be completely detremental to horses health, raise them back to 80's height and get them being respected. The ground is meticulously looked after. The horses are trained by professionals that have to pass exams before they are allowed to train a horse. All of the facilities are regularly inspected, new gallops surfaces being developed, new boots, new equipment - take the whip for example - it is now a lump of air cusioned foam - it can't do too much damage and is more made for noise. New drugs, new medical treatments - in fact pretty much everything that you use on a daily basis has been researched and developed for the racing industry long before it becomes available to the general public.

I see pictures of events where the take off and landing of big solid jumps is a horribly muddy, slippy patch. Anyone can run a horse round an xc course. Anyone can clamber over some show jumps. Anyone can strap their horses head in in various gadgets to get the look for dressage. Yet how many people actually have a real clue as to what they are doing.

It's not racehorses I pity it's the normal horses in the hands of the uneducated that I worry about.
 
Horses live and horses die and jump racehorses are the best looked after, if they are seriously injured they are swiftly taken care of for good or the worse, I love my NH, it's nice to see my old friends come back year after year and am enjoying Cheltenham so much, and if people on here can't see how many people turn up to watch good horses racing then they are the ones to be pitied.
 
I see pictures of events where the take off and landing of big solid jumps is a horribly muddy, slippy patch. Anyone can run a horse round an xc course. Anyone can clamber over some show jumps. Anyone can strap their horses head in in various gadgets to get the look for dressage. Yet how many people actually have a real clue as to what they are doing.

It's not racehorses I pity it's the normal horses in the hands of the uneducated that I worry about.
Click to expand...

Hear hear EKW. Exactly my thoughts!
 
It is an awful thing seeing a horse fall and not get up, or even worse, get up and continue with a leg swinging...... however I still watch racing as that is what these horses are bred for and love doing... most do, apart from Moose today in the 16.00!!!!!
The problem is that it is all in the public eye, there are tons of horses that die everyday in much more appalling places than the racecourse and horse trials. I am not saying I like watching horses die but these aren't just any horses, they are finely tuned animals that are bred for a purpose, accidents happen all the time, I feel for all the connections of the horses that don't make it and I strongly respect those vets at these events that have to make these decisions to put the horse out of misery and pain... luckily very quickly after the damage has been done so the horse knows very little about it...
20 odd horses galloping at the same fence is never going to be 'safe' for horse or rider... but saying that, getting on any horse is never 'safe' that's why we get so much excitement from it!!
 
RachelFerd said:
Hear hear EKW. Exactly my thoughts!
Click to expand...

Totally agree, I think BE made a mistake briging in the lower levels, the standard of riding I have seen when competing and fence judging has made me cringe... especially those people say they are going to 'have a go' at a novice, these courses are not there for people to 'have a go'. It scares me to watch as these tracks are unforgiving... Rant over!!!
 
Sadly, for the horses, it's all down to man's greed. Lets make as much money as possible from racing horses, regardless of those that die on the course or in training, it's all about profit. Sickening really... all for a bet and a prize pot. I hate humans sometimes.
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
I hate seeing any injuries/fatalities but still love horses and still love jump racing.

I do think that at least racehorses get to live a good life before they die. Unlike starved ponies dumped on wasteground and left to starve or the foals shot and dumped by the local travellers which I have seen at first hand. And those transported for days across europe without food or water for the meat trade.

A swift death is a tragedy but not the worst thing that humans do to horses by a long long way. My priorities personally are focused on practices that cause long drawn out extended suffering through deliberate cruelty, there is more than enough of that for us all to concentrate our efforts on long before we work our way down to accidents which happen in racing but also happen in the field or out hacking.
Click to expand...

This, exactly.

EKW said:
Yes jockeys get some fatastic injuries but you have to go back many, many years to find a jockey that died in a race. I'm asshamed to admit that I can't remember the lads name but he was a 3lb claimer and he died in a hurdle race at Market Rasen son 13-15 years ago. And yet not an eventing season goes by without one or two riders dying over a fence.

A lot can be learnt from racing.
Click to expand...

Tom Halliday in 2005.

cptrayes said:
NH racing predictably kills horse after horse after horse and no changes will be made because it is simply an accepted part of the sport.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, the usual "nothing changes in racing because everyone in the sport is an uncaring ogre only in it for the money" ******. :rolleyes:

Things change in racing with the intention of improving safety and welfare of those involved ALL THE TIME. There have been countless changes to the Grand National course over the last few years - fences lowered, angle of drop landings leveled, ditches filled in. This year they are changing the core that makes up the fences to make it easier for horses to 'slither' over them. Unfortunately it would appear that some of those changes have actually been counter-productive - lower fences encourage more speed, and it is speed that kills - but the intention has been to reduce fatalities even if that objective has not yet been achieved at Aintree.

After two fatal falls at a particular fence at Cheltenham a couple of seasons ago, the fence was successfully re-sited to a different part of the track so horses weren't jumping on such a sharp downhill section. If low sun is likely to make visibility/glare an issue, fences at the relevant angle are omitted - this never used to happen. Newton Abbot have just received permission from the BHA to trial a new type of hurdle with rubberised panels which it is hoped will cause less jarring if the horse hits the top. This is just a handful of examples of changes introduced for the safety and welfare of horses, and it is sensationalist nonsense to suggest it is not taking place.

It is a fact that no safety measures will ever eradicate all fatalities. Horses are running at or close to their physical limit, where the consequences of an error are magnified, and they are fragile creatures to start with, as anyone who saw the Inside Nature's Giants programme about them will testify. But as lachlanandmarcus said so eloquently above - better a good life and a quick death than many of the alternatives.
 
I don't tend to watch it, but I don't actually struggle with racing as such - there are fatalities in everything - that doesn't mean I think it's right, it's just not my greatest concern. The industry itself - the wastage, the management, the way horses that I wouldn't allow to take part in a lesson are still worked - that I have a massive problem with. Of course I know not all yards are like that, but there are too many for me to feel comfortable with it. For that reason, I don't go to the races, as, for me, I don't feel it's right to support an industry with such low welfare standards. To be fair, I have the same problem with several other horse sports, but Perhaps I feel no one really acknowledges the racing world? Or perhaps that's just because I'm not involved in it? I always think this makes for slightly uncomfortable viewing :confused: (nothing really horrific, like welfare cases, but if you live in a very happy bubble maybe dont look :) ) http://www.hauteecole.ru/en/equestrian_sport_photogallery.php
 
I just want to clarify that i am fully aware of the awful things that go on in other walks of equestrianism and indeed life, however i couldn't include all of those in one post. Just because i've commented on this particular issue doesn't mean i don't have an opinion on various other issues - but we'd be here all day if i was to get into that!

As for "getting out and making a difference" you've prematurely presumed myself and the many others posting on this thread don't do anything for retired racehorses? I personally do a hell of a lot, and promote ROR every time i can, and own an ex flat horse myself.

The thing for me is the absolute guarantee that a large percentage will loose their lives for our pleasure. Accidents happen, of course however at what point do we say actually this is one too many. As a horse lover i can't sit and watch something where there's a good chance one will fall and not get up, or get up injured.

I do agree with an above post re the quality of horse and rider combinations going BE Novice etc. It's not confined to the racing industry, however i would like to see someone with some impartial statistics proving that NH racing is less dangerous to the animal than other forms of equestrian sport.
 
I dont really know much about the standards of living for racehorses, I suppose the one who run fast are treated well untill they break or become too old.....but what happens to the ones who are either slow, broken, or just too old to race anymore ?
 
The_Snoopster... what other equestrian discipline actually has an official body and charity dedicated to rehabilitating and rehoming of their equine participants?

Which equestrian discipline actually has 4 dedicated centres (3 run on a charitable basis) dedicated to the rehabilitation, rehoming and education of owners of it's ex participants?

That would be the racing industry...

What happens to the horses that are too ungenuine, too untalented, too broken or too old to do dressage/eventing/showjumping/hacking (delete as appropriate)? Probably worse off than the racehorses IMHO
 
EKW said:
Quite contrary - the welfare standards are much, much higher than any other equestrian/animal orientated sports out there.
Click to expand...

Sorry, poor wording, I didn't mean at the races. More the general industry. That said, I wouldn't be able to stick up for any discipline once it be becomes commercial, so perhaps it's just because I see more of the "by products" (ex racehorses) of racing looking poor more often than those from other sports? Which I suppose there will be, as it is a larger industry? Plus horses are available so cheap, they are so often bought by people without enough experience. Though that happens with the expensive eventers, dressage-ers and sj's too :(
 
The_snoopster said:
I dont really know much about the standards of living for racehorses, I suppose the one who run fast are treated well untill they break or become too old.....but what happens to the ones who are either slow, broken, or just too old to race anymore ?
Click to expand...

*waves* I have 4 of these :D 3 through injury, 1 when he retired sound from a long and successful career. They are treated like kings and are re-educated to be natives - ie get filthy, grow manes, grow tails, live out for the ones it suits, and then be all strimmed, trimmed and schooled up to be show horses in the summer.

But no, not all get the life they deserve after racing service. Because there is a preconceived idea that racehorses are psycho loonies they don't sell for much straight out of training and thus making them available to people getting their first horse. Mostly these people have neither the experience nor the finances to do their horses justice. And then they end up being the ones I pity being strapped down, ridden badly or shunted for being "too dangerous" when they are simply misunderstood by people who took no time at all to learn about their pasts and how to work with them at the horses speed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top