Who would pay?

[Fools Motto]

If I asked for (outside) help, (Steve Young for example) to help me regain confidence in handling a bitey, planty, reary horse, who would pay? Me, YO (my boss) or the owner of the horse?
I'm normally ok with most things, but as every day goes by, I KNOW my confidence in catching and leading this horse is getting more fragile. It's my job to handle him, and I'm no quitter but I see a disaster happening in the future... either I'll get bitten badly, or kicked by the front legs (I wear my hat btw)... and I don't like that idea at all!
It's me who is thinking about getting help, no-one else has even mentioned it assuming I'm still ok, so I'm clearly putting on a face at the moment, but really close to waving the white flag!! The YO is more scared of him than me, the owner is rarely around and the other person who handles him (relation to the owner) is heavy handed and has been bitten.
The horse has had treatment for an infection, prior to this assumed he was in pain, now all clear.

Other owners on the yard say I should hit the horse hard to make him respect me and treat him like a stallion... I've no experience in handling stallions, but it's not ok to beat up any horse, I want to find other methods that work.

The fields are now not currently in use due to be too boggy, but plans are to put him out with a boss mare.
Help!!

 

[Red-1]

I would simply refuse to handle him and then the ball is back in their court.

 

[bonny]

I would simply refuse to handle him and then the ball is back in their court.

This, just say no, Its not worth putting yourself in danger and it sounds like the situation is not going to improve as things stand.
You can’t call in an expert and present someone else with the bill but why not discuss the situation with the YO and the owner and see what the three of you can come up with ?

 

[nagblagger]

If the YO or owner doesn't know you have a problem the first thing to do is tell them. then maybe have a 3 way meeting and discuss what is best for the horse. You could steer the conversation round to getting outside help.
Is the horse insured if you were injured?

 

[Fools Motto]

I would simply refuse to handle him and then the ball is back in their court.

This has been suggested several times by my friends and family. I guess I don't want to quit, but thinking I'm going to have to!

 

[EllenJay]

I would speak to the YO and say that you need outside help, and until this is organised you will not handle this horse again.

YO should pay, she may want to charge the owner, but she has the duty of care to both you and the horse

 

[ycbm]

This has been suggested several times by my friends and family. I guess I don't want to quit, but thinking I'm going to have to!

You should refuse to handle him on H&S grounds, he isn't safe and if he hurts you this will be a predictable industrial injury.

ETA her insurance would be very annoyed if they knew about this situation, because they will be responsible for your payout when you are hurt.
.

 

[Tiddlypom]

This has been suggested several times by my friends and family. I guess I don't want to quit, but thinking I'm going to have to!

Please do.

 

[Fools Motto]

If the YO or owner doesn't know you have a problem the first thing to do is tell them. then maybe have a 3 way meeting and discuss what is best for the horse. You could steer the conversation round to getting outside help.
Is the horse insured if you were injured?

I think they do know, but don't take me seriously because I haven't given up. One other member of staff got him off the walker and he ripped her coat. She hasn't said anything either, blaming herself for not 'being on the ball'.. but said she won't do it again, and as I'm more in charge I don't want to see any member of staff hurt. A discussion about him is defiantly needed, I have no idea about the insurance, but do know I'm covered!

 

[planete]

I assume you are handling this horse as part of your job. As Red-1 says you have every right to refuse to handle him. One of the girls where I worked ages ago refused to ride one of her allocated race horses, a 2 year old who started rearing and looked as if he could go over backwards any second when he did it. There was no argument from the trainer. I similarly refused to groom a stallion who was obviously on the rampage when I tried to go into his box, he picked up the next person in there by her shoulder. Tell the yard owner. She has a duty to safeguard you and you should not have to quit because of this horse. As an employer she would be liable if you got hurt by a notoriously dangerous horse and, as an employee, you are certainly not supposed to put your life on the line. Very experienced grooms survive because they know when something is too risky and say no thanks.

 

[SEL]

I stopped handling one when he got his teeth around the top of my arm. I had a coat on but he drew blood. When I needed to bring him in later that day I used my mare's muzzle on the basis I could either watch his legs or his teeth but not both. When he struck at me with his front legs I decided I liked my life too much.

Owner should pay for external help to try and avoid anyone getting hurt, but I think you'll need to be tough with YO, horse owner etc or they'll all just assume you'll keep going.

 

[HashRouge]

As others have said, I would just refuse to handle him! I got kicked, badly, when I worked as an SJ groom. I was turning out, horse ripped the rope out of my hand, bucked as he went, and caught me in the back of the ribs with the front of his fetlock. I ended up in A&E, miraculously nothing was broken, but I had the most horrendously bruised ribs and wasn't back to normal for at least a month. I still wonder whether X rays might have missed a hairline fracture, because I have never been in so much pain and sneezing was utter agony. Anyway, he'd always been a bit tricky to turn out, with a tendency to spin round fly bucking as soon as you took his head collar off. At the point I got kicked I was about 6 weeks from leaving the job to go travelling anyway and I just refused to turn him out ever again. My boss had to do it instead as I just refused. It is 100% not worth you getting hurt handling this horse.

 

[Arzada]

This has been suggested several times by my friends and family. I guess I don't want to quit, but thinking I'm going to have to!

Best to quit make a wise self preservation decision while it's still an option ie before the horse's actions make the decision for you.

 

[twobearsarthur]

Please don’t think of it as quitting. Think of it as taking care of yourself first. Many many years ago (40+) my Aunt was a groom at a point to point yard. Slightly different to your situation she wasn’t told one of the horses she was asked to deal with was dangerous. She lost her career and the use of her left leg, was permanently disfigured and has had a lifetime of operations and pain. These things can happen with any horse but it isn’t worth it to put yourself in harms way if you know the horse is dangerous. Let the yard owner know the situation cannot continue and they can discuss the next steps with the horse’s owner

 

[Equi]

The owner should pay or be asked to remove the horse. It’s their horse and their ultimately responsible. I assume they pay for you/yo to care for said animal but that doesn’t come with taking life threatening risks.

 

[HashRouge]

The owner should pay or be asked to remove the horse. It’s their horse and their ultimately responsible. I assume they pay for you/yo to care for said animal but that doesn’t come with taking life threatening risks.

A related point - when I was on a livery yard as a teenager, there was a lady there with a gelding called Benjy. He was very bad-tempered and would bite, and was only ever handled by his owner and the lady who did livery services on the yard. I think he had been mistreated, but I can't remember the full story now. Anyway, there came a point where the lady who did livery just couldn't handle him anymore. She'd managed for several years without too much trouble, but got bitten several times in quick succession. His owner had him put to sleep shortly after, as she knew she was reliant on livery services and it just was not safe to ask someone else to handle him anymore. I should point out that she had owned him for years and tried very hard to resolve his issues, but he was too damaged.

 

[TPO]

This has been suggested several times by my friends and family. I guess I don't want to quit, but thinking I'm going to have to!

It's not quitting! You need to reframe your thinking and terminology.

I assuming that you're a groom on a yard? Therefore your job involves handling horses but not training them and especially not dealing with problem horses.

It's the YOs issue to deal with. They need to speak to the owner and decide a way forward; be it getting in a trainer or refusing to handle the horse etc. End of the day not your problem.

Health and Safety at work is a BIG deal. You've advised your boss that you don't feel safe, it's up to them to resolve the issue.

By all means get additional training if you want it and to develop your own skills but do not put yourself in harms way.

 

[Kaylum]

I would have thought before any of the experts do anything they would want a vet to have checked the horse to make sure there is no physical problem? Does that happen? Anyway yes agree with the others you need to let YO and owner know, before someone actually does get hurt. I also presume the experts are very expensive and is the owner going to invest their money into a horse they don't really bother with.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I knew of a very experienced and knowledgeable person who had a young mare like this. She laughed when the farrier refused to deal with the horse any more, and teased him about it, saying that he was getting too old.

No one knew exactly what happened, but the mare got her . The woman lived on for years, but never regained consciousness.

Just make it clear that you will no longer deal with the horse as you do not feel safe.

 

[AmyMay]

??????

 

[Fools Motto]

I knew of a very experienced and knowledgeable person who had a young mare like this. She laughed when the farrier refused to deal with the horse any more, and teased him about it, saying that he was getting too old.

No one knew exactly what happened, but the mare got her . The woman lived on for years, but never regained consciousness.

Just make it clear that you will no longer deal with the horse as you do not feel safe.

Wow. That brings it home. Hard.

 

[Snow Falcon]

The question who pays? You would, not in monetary terms but maybe with an injury. Your employer has a duty of care towards you.

 

[babymare]

Has others have said the YO has a duty of care towards you. Please make it clear that you do not want to handle this horse and why? Remove the thought that it’s quitting because you are not quitting. You are ensuring you do not come to harm dealing with an obviously dangerous animal

 

[Gloi]

If for some reason the yard owner will not take your concerns seriously put them in writing to her mentioning her responsibility to the health and safety of her employees.

 

[HeyMich]

Take a look at the Health and Safety at Work Act. The employer has an absolute duty to ensure your welfare, which they are currently not doing. Tell them clearly, and hopefully your working conditions will improve.

 

[Sossigpoker]

This has been suggested several times by my friends and family. I guess I don't want to quit, but thinking I'm going to have to!

You can't get a trainer out to work on a horse that is not yours without the owner's consent and I'm struggling to understand why you think you could ot should have to in anyway pay for it .
If the horse is dangerous, just refuse to handle it. The owner needs to get something sorted. (I've owned a horse like this and he turned out to be very ill with wobbler )

 

[Ratface]

Please refuse to do anything with this horse.
Health and Safety At Work is the prime responsibility of your employer.

 

[Parrotperson]

When I was much younger (I'm an old f**t now!) I was sent to the vets with a horse. Long story short he was sedated for X-rays but woke up as the last one was taken (Even though I told them he was waking up the vet nurse declined to tell the vet so no extra sedation given)

Anyway as he realised he thew machine was there he went completely bonkers. I was holding him. How he missed me I'll never know but he completely destroyed the x ray machine and I mean completely

my older self would just refuse to take him these days but then it was hard to say no.

but you must for your own safety. If they sack you take them to a tribunal.

 

[Goldenstar]

Just tell your employer the horse is dangerous and you won’t handle it .
Its your employers job to put a plan a safe plan to deal with the situation .

 

[Fools Motto]

Update. Last 5 days the horse has been 'much' better.. Not an angel but better. Someone on the yard even wondered if it was the same horse. Until today. He went for me totally out of the blue when I was leading him towards his stable. Nothing provoked him, he was sweet enough until this point. He paused ever so slightly curled his neck behind my back and went for the middle of my back with teeth in a split second. Luckily he didn't get me, but it was close. I consider that I have no more luck left. Stupid I didn't take your (or my own) advice sooner. Lucky I'm fine, but the shock is a funny thing and I keep crying!
With that I've messaged the owner, and told my boss point blankly that I'm not touching him again EVER. No amount of pay, nothing is worth that. Too many nice horses out there, so why should I do a bad one.
I've changed my pants (lol) and i'm now going to have a drink!!