Why are half bred horses ok but half bred dogs aren't?!

[chillipup]

I suppose my cross bred pup, JRT cross Shih Tzu would be called a Jack S*it then?

 

[ycbm]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is no legislating against stupidity!

Exactly. There is a breeder near me who breeds one litter of cockerpoos a year from a home living bitch and makes an honest bob or two out of selling some very sought after puppies.

I can't for the life of me see what's wrong with that, or how calling them cockerpoos is any more 'stupid' than calling a lurcher which can be any one of a number of crosses, a lurcher. Or even, come to that, a shihtzu a shihtzu.

 

[ester]

Nothing wrong if the parents are health tested.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Indeed nothing wrong if parents are health tested and the bitch doesn't have one litter a year throughout her life.

 

[ycbm]

Indeed nothing wrong if parents are health tested and the bitch doesn't have one litter a year throughout her life.

Brood mares can have a foal a year healthily throughout their lives covered on goal heat with an on time foal.. Why can't a bitch be healthy and have a litter a year? Serious question, I know little about breeding dogs but I don't see the issue with being pregnant for two months and mothering for two months and completely free of puppy duty for eight months a year?

 

[Dobiegirl]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201404/designer-dog-maker-regrets-his-creation

From the man himself.


The Kennel Club will only allow 4 litters I believe to be registered, this is in the interest of welfare of the bitch and if you havent bred what you wanted by then you are never likely too.

 

[Dry Rot]

Nothing wrong if the parents are health tested.

It's amazing how they managed before health testing.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Brood mares can have a foal a year healthily throughout their lives covered on goal heat with an on time foal.. Why can't a bitch be healthy and have a litter a year? Serious question, I know little about breeding dogs but I don't see the issue with being pregnant for two months and mothering for two months and completely free of puppy duty for eight months a year?

Bitches can often take a lot longer to comeback after a litter than the 2 months they are rearing the litter, and having litter after litter can pull them down. But more to the point why would you do it, as Dobiegirl says, if breeding to improve your line if you haven't done it in 4 litters then I would suggest the bitch isnt a good producer. I don't know a great deal about breeding mares but imagine very few are take every year throughout their lives.

 

[Thistle]

Also a horse wouldhave15to20 foals over her lifetime Abitch would have this number of pups in 2 litters

 

[ycbm]

It's amazing how they managed before health testing.

And why is it necessary? Because of previous breeding practices by pedigree dog breeders.

 

[ycbm]

In sorry but I don't understand any of the arguments given so far why a family should not breed a litter of puppies a year from a bitch to produce puppies for which there is a ready market which will give them some pocket money. It's a lot less reproduction than nature would do.

 

[Dobiegirl]

What do you think a Cockerpoo is? Its obviously a cross between 2 pedigree dogs, by breeding them together it isnt going to make the health problems of their parents go away.

Modern vet medicine has moved on and there are now tests for all sorts of conditions which couldnt be tested before, whatever you are breeding health should be at the top of the list as well as temperament because without those you have nothing.

Why anyone would breed when there is a chance of blind puppies which could be tested for prior to mating is beyond me and it is not only unethical but immoral..

Rescues up and down the country pick up the pieces from these people who are breeding so they can make a bit of pin money and actually the prices they charge it is not pin money but a substantial income for the cheapest outlay possible.

Ive got a pedigree rare breed bitch who is fully health tested, DNA tested from health tested parents, she is also on the KC vulnerable list but as I foster I wouldnt breed her as I would have felt like a hypocrite. How about that lady breeding those cockerpoos goes out and gets a job like the rest of us rather than expecting a regular income from her dogs womb.

 

[ycbm]

Yes, Dobiegirl, I did say earlier on in this thread that they have to be responsibly bred. And if they are, then like the OP, I can't see why anyone gets bent out of shape by what someone chooses to call them.

'An income from her dogs womb?' Do you feel the same vitriol about people who breed horses that sell for a good price so we can ride them?

And are you saying that it's OK to breed a dog to show, but not to breed a dog because people out there want to buy it and give it a loving home?

I'm very confused by your attitude on this.

 

[AmyMay]

'An income from her dogs womb?' Do you feel the same vitriol about people who breed horses that sell for a good price so we can ride them?.

It's a sad fact that people do churn out puppies to make money - and if you can get £800 for a cross breed x 7 or 8 in a litter why wouldn't you? (I jest....) For many breeders there is absolutely no thought to the health of the parents, and subsequently the puppies (be they pedigree or cross breed). You only have to look at the puppy farm exposes to know what huge business breeding puppies is.

 

[gunnergundog]

In sorry but I don't understand any of the arguments given so far why a family should not breed a litter of puppies a year from a bitch to produce puppies for which there is a ready market which will give them some pocket money. .

Errrm..............surely you mean taxable income???

 

[Alec Swan]

Not always perhaps, but for now, I'm in the ycbm camp.

Alec.

 

[Dobiegirl]

Yes, Dobiegirl, I did say earlier on in this thread that they have to be responsibly bred. And if they are, then like the OP, I can't see why anyone gets bent out of shape by what someone chooses to call them.

'An income from her dogs womb?' Do you feel the same vitriol about people who breed horses that sell for a good price so we can ride them?

And are you saying that it's OK to breed a dog to show, but not to breed a dog because people out there want to buy it and give it a loving home?

I'm very confused by your attitude on this.

They are not charging stupid prices for their horses are they with dreamt up names in order to fool the horse buying public, horses which command a high price is because they are well bred or they have a record of achievements, whether thats showing,racing or dressage so I dont have a problem with people breeding their well bred mare or one that is a show winner with good confirmation

Going back to dogs, someone breeding a dog to show is looking for a replacement to go on and show but most probably most of the litter will be sold on as pets although a few will also show. When you breed a pedigree dog you know what you are going to get, look wise, drive and you will also know that the dog is either one who sheds its coat or one that requires clipping. You will also know if you are going to get a guarding breed, working breed etc and that will tell you how much exercise that dog will need. Buying a designer breed is a bit of a lottery which is not something I would be prepared to do but would rather gamble my money on a horse, you really dont know what you are going to get when that pup has grown up.

I have already said that I foster and not so long ago we has some pups come in I cant remember whether they were cavy poos or doodle doos but the person who brought them in was the breeder, his bitch had 8 pups and he had sold 3 of them and as they got bigger people didnt like the look of them Im guessing because they didnt sell. I have to say they were not the best looking dogs Ive ever seen and Im being very kind here but the upshot is the rescue took them with no contribution from the breeder and the rescue had a job to rehome them. This is repeated up and down the country and is why I am against designer breeds because it is all about the money and why it makes me so angry.

 

[Alec Swan]

…….. . How about that lady breeding those cockerpoos goes out and gets a job like the rest of us rather than expecting a regular income from her dogs womb.

I'm sorry, but that's just emotive nonsense.

Whilst I find myself in agreement with other aspects of your post, there is nothing wrong with having an annual income from a litter of pups, for those in need. I've earned an income from sheep, was I also wrong?

Alec.

 

[splashgirl45]

there are quite a few of these designer dogs in my area and most of them seem to be VERY hyper and I am sure that they don't get the amount of exercise which a cross of 2 working type breeds need.
before I get shot down, I have 2 crossbreeds myself, a border collie /lab and a bearded collie/whippet/bedlington and my dogs are well trained and have plenty of free running time and are both absolutely fine with people and other dogs. the same cannot be said for our local designer dogs!!!! I think there is nothing wrong with designer dogs but unfortunately a lot of the owners seem to be first timers and the dogs only seem to get a short lead walk and have lots of pent up energy which is why so many end up in rescue. I must admit the poodle crosses don't appeal to me at all and if I wanted a dog with that type of coat I would get a pure bred poodle ...

 

[Dobiegirl]

I'm sorry, but that's just emotive nonsense.

Whilst I find myself in agreement with other aspects of your post, there is nothing wrong with having an annual income from a litter of pups, for those in need. I've earned an income from sheep, was I also wrong?

Alec.

Its quite common for people to prefer not to work and to get their income from other sources such as dog breeding.
Breeding for those in need?, what short of beer money,fag money, need a new conservatory is that what you mean.
Unless your sheep end up in rescue I dont have a problem with that but judging by some of the unclipped labradoodles in rescue they could easily pass as sheep.

 

[ester]

well without testing (ie not that long ago, so when the issues did exist) there were a lot more older dogs in pain and distraught owners losing their loved dogs at a young age.
It's available, so if you are breeding a breed with known issues and cared about the longevity of your produce why wouldn't you test?

If not breed a heinz57 with a heinz57 and don't charge £800 for each pup.

 

[Alec Swan]

I'm sorry, but that's just emotive nonsense.

……..

Alec.

Its quite common for people to prefer not to work and to get their income from other sources such as dog breeding.
…….. .

Do you know the person to whom the OP refers? Can you explain their needs or circumstances? No, and neither do any of us.

Perhaps in your perfect and ordered world you may consider that you may not be quite so quick to judge.

Alec.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I wondered when someone would mention tax

 

[MotherOfChickens]

half bred horses are generally bred so that each breed compliments the other physically and they are pretty tried and tested. There are those I don't understand (WB x Iberian for example or Friesian x Iberian) but not sure either has really taken off.
While there was a point in labradoodles I fail to see the point of crosses such as puggles and jugs-except that they are very cute as pups (but then all pups are cute) but then when grown can look quite odd (and thats being polite). I've no idea why someone would cross a pug with anything but especially a beagle tbh.

 

[{97702}]

I think Mother of Chickens sums up the difference between horse breeding and puppy farming admirably.

I also think that it is a very sad indictment of modern society that someone purports not to understand what is wrong with the intensive indescriminate breeding of dogs using unsuitable parents (who probably will have congenital health problems) in unsanitary unhealthy conditions - because that is how the vast majority of designer canine cross breeds come about. Or maybe that is just HHO for you - there were ever trolls who delighted in posting simply to wind others up.

 

[ycbm]

I think Mother of Chickens sums up the difference between horse breeding and puppy farming admirably.

I also think that it is a very sad indictment of modern society that someone purports not to understand what is wrong with the intensive indescriminate breeding of dogs using unsuitable parents (who probably will have congenital health problems) in unsanitary unhealthy conditions - because that is how the vast majority of designer canine cross breeds come about. Or maybe that is just HHO for you - there were ever trolls who delighted in posting simply to wind others up.

I take it your 'someone' is me?

I have made it very clear throughout this entire thread, which incidentally I did not start, that I am talking only about responsible breeding of wanted dogs, not of indiscriminate breeding.

I did not purport not to understand what is wrong with the intensive indiscriminate breeding of dogs. Any idiot can see what is wrong with that.

Sadly you did not bother to actually read my posts before launching this attack. Your post is offensive.

 

[Dobiegirl]

Do you know the person to whom the OP refers? Can you explain their needs or circumstances? No, and neither do any of us.

Perhaps in your perfect and ordered world you may consider that you may not be quite so quick to judge.

Alec.

Do we know if this person actually exists, I dont know and neither do you, from experience unscrupulous people breed dogs for money without consideration of health tests, thats fact and the only difference between them and puppy farmers are the scale of operations.

Ive been short of money and could well have bred my bitch to earn a bit extra but as I said that would make me a hypocrite, it seems to me a few nerves have been hit by this thread, sometimes home truths will do that.

 

[Alec Swan]

half bred horses are generally bred so that each breed compliments the other physically and they are pretty tried and tested. ……...

But then the point to breeding a horse is that it will have a 'use' to us. How many dogs are bred, via what ever route, with an intended purpose beyond being pets, or ornaments? Few, I'd suggest.

I'm with you in that the obscure and sometimes weird crosses, seem to be rather pointless, beyond creating trinkets. If it hasn't happened, in time someone will AI a Dachshund dog to a Great Dane bitch.

Alec.

 

[Leo Walker]

I take it your 'someone' is me?

I have made it very clear throughout this entire thread, which incidentally I did not start, that I am talking only about responsible breeding of wanted dogs, not of indiscriminate breeding.

I did not purport not to understand what is wrong with the intensive indiscriminate breeding of dogs. Any idiot can see what is wrong with that.

Sadly you did not bother to actually read my posts before launching this attack. Your post is offensive.

I'm not launching an attack But you did mention a bitch that was bred every year which isnt recommended and probably isnt responsible. Anyone who wants a crossbred dog can find one without buying one thats been bred on purpose.

I echo the person who said that labradoodles etc always seem to be the ones running riot when out on walks!

 

[ycbm]

Do we know if this person actually exists, I dont know and neither do you, from experience unscrupulous people breed dogs for money without consideration of health tests, thats fact and the only difference between them and puppy farmers are the scale of operations.

Ive been short of money and could well have bred my bitch to earn a bit extra but as I said that would make me a hypocrite, it seems to me a few nerves have been hit by this thread, sometimes home truths will do that.

So if I understand you, then in your view it's impossible for anyone to ever ethically breed a cocker spaniel crossed with a poodle?

Do you have the same problem with people breeding horses, and if not, why not?

For the person who said if they wanted a poodle coat they would buy a poodle, my friend's miniature and standard KC poodles don't 'do it' for me at all. I don't like their characters or the way they look. But I love cocker poos and if I wanted a dog I'd certainly consider one from a home that breeds ethically. Different folks for different strokes