spacefaer
Well-Known Member
This was in the early 90s and I was asking (and getting!) between £4,500 and £6,000 for them.
Depressing, isn't it!
Why are horses so cheap?
- Thread starter Theocat
- Start date
This was in the early 90s and I was asking (and getting!) between £4,500 and £6,000 for them.
Depressing, isn't it!
Leo Walker
Well-Known Member
I bought mine for £500 and paid over the odds for a 2yr old cob. I did it as hes a nice example of his type, was what I was looking for and was in a bad situation. Before I broke my back and ended up fat, crippled and useless I would have made him on my own with minimal effort. It was a bit of a shock to me to find that I was no longer capable of doing that. Pre accident I would have considered him on of the easiest horses I've ever owned.
Because I'm such a stubborn sod and I adore him I have and still am pouring money into turning him into what I want and need. Even without the general day to day costs, I reckon I could have bought myself a really classy RC allrounder for the money I've spent. I dont mind as I adore him, and just see it as an investment and love just having him around
The problems start when people think they can take a cheap, young, green horse and turn it into a nice RC allrounder then find out they cant. I suppose I was lucky in that I'd done it before and realised this time I wasnt physically capable, looked about at what I could get if I sold him, and decided to keep him and work with him. Lots of people dont realise its their problem not the horses.
I could buy a 100 more of him for way less than £500, and like I said if I was still a competent person I could easily turn them into the nice low level RC allrounders, who are easy to keep and hack anywhere sort of horses. But I lack that skill now, and sadly so do almost all of the people I see buying the cheap horses.
And therein lies the problem! There are lots and lot and LOTS of cheap horses, but very, very few people with the ability to turn them into the 5k horses that everyone wants!
Because I'm such a stubborn sod and I adore him I have and still am pouring money into turning him into what I want and need. Even without the general day to day costs, I reckon I could have bought myself a really classy RC allrounder for the money I've spent. I dont mind as I adore him, and just see it as an investment and love just having him around
The problems start when people think they can take a cheap, young, green horse and turn it into a nice RC allrounder then find out they cant. I suppose I was lucky in that I'd done it before and realised this time I wasnt physically capable, looked about at what I could get if I sold him, and decided to keep him and work with him. Lots of people dont realise its their problem not the horses.
I could buy a 100 more of him for way less than £500, and like I said if I was still a competent person I could easily turn them into the nice low level RC allrounders, who are easy to keep and hack anywhere sort of horses. But I lack that skill now, and sadly so do almost all of the people I see buying the cheap horses.
And therein lies the problem! There are lots and lot and LOTS of cheap horses, but very, very few people with the ability to turn them into the 5k horses that everyone wants!
cornbrodolly
Well-Known Member
And this is the reason we dont breed anymore........
So, keeping mares and a stallion , and the offspring for approx 4 years , plus ALL the work involved in handling,backing,bringing on , you then expect cheap horses? How much would you charge per hour if you needed to make a profit? How much to buy nice mares, a stallion graded by a recognised society [ or stud fees or A I fees] , all the forage, feed, vet,etc etc?
Its the middle range breeder , as we were , that have stopped breeding entirely. So what type of horse will be left in a few years ?
Sports horses and Tb s , cheap if they have been messed up, very expensive if they are doing well.
Low end horses/ponies indifferent in conformation and usefulness.
Foreign bred horses from eastern Europe , where it is cheaper to breed and keep [ £ against their currency]
To cover costs 20 years ago it was reckoned [ by us breeders ha ha] that a foal cost £1000 to get on the ground and a £1000 per year till he was ready to go as a backed and going 4 yr old.
We now gladly buy youngsters at decent prices [to show and bring on] ,knowing the breeder hasnt made a bean.
cundlegreen
Well-Known Member
Another like you, Cornbrodolly. I gave up small time breeding 5 years ago, due to not being able to get £1,000 for a goodlooking foal that had scored highly at the BEF Futurity. I have the stallion here, but can't run everything on until 4 years old due to wet ground. Even with using my stallion I doubt I made anything, and when I did send a mare away, as you said, it cost me £1,000 before the foal was even born. If people want a horse that is just about bombproof to handle, stands, is nice in the mouth, non spooky, good in traffic, and will jump a fence as well as being good looking, they WILL have to pay good money as horses are just not produced correctly in a lot of cases nowadays. I have an irish mare here that I bought unbroken as a 3 year old for a lot less than I could get one on the ground here. She is now rising 6, and all of the above. Exceptionally good natured about everything, but the only way I will get what she is worth, is to pay somebody to event her for me, and that adds a great deal of cost.
I recently sent away a big young horse to be broken by my event rider, and it cost me £1200, and he wasn't there that long. If you want a nice horse that ticks all the boxes, AND passes a vet, then I think they are rare. I personally have found that people prefer buying off a breeder, as they then know all the horse's breeding and history.
Holding
Well-Known Member
I would like to know where everyone is finding these cheap horses! I'm (casually, as not ready to buy quite yet) looking for a 5/6 year old that is sane and sensible enough to hack, will pop a small course and has three good paces to do affiliated dressage to a decent but not super high level, and I would be amazed to find one for 5k. Everything I like seems to be in the 10-15k region - not sure where all these incredible bargain horses are coming from!
tristar
Well-Known Member
I believe if it doesn't make a good price there is a reason, generally it is not good enough, people are not stupid, if you are breeding something good enough the horse will sell itself, because it will stand out, be it middle of the road or better
its a kind of litmus test of success if I get offers to buy.
er
its a kind of litmus test of success if I get offers to buy.
er
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
What like my £800 mare who hasn't had a days lameness in 13 yrs and hunts/team chases and jumps anything. These cheap horses can be totally fine and cheap because the owners aren't experienced and can't get any potential out the horse and that's what I look for when I buy, the owner was to scared to go in the field with the mare and had just brought her not long ago for a fair bit of money but wanted rid. Best horse iv ever had and she will stay with me until the end
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
Someone I know runs a dressage yard and competes at a high level, although she has all sorts for lessons and will help anyone. She had a horse into sell, that was a good allrounder but wouldn't make a dressage competition horse. She advertised it at what she thought was a reasonable price, and didn't have an enquiry. So she waited a bit and advertised it again at double the price and it sold straight away.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I've done that a couple of times!! Advertised around the 3/3.5k mark, dealt with the lower class (for want of a better word) of delusional buyers - added 2k to the price and hey presto horses sold to good homes!!
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
The way you have worded that makes you sound so stuck up, sorry.
So if £3000/£3500 is " the lower class" what class am I paying £800 for a 1st class horse as iv stated above. Maybe one who knows what they are looking at and won't waste my hard earned money or believe the higher price means a better class animal which isn't always the case.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
Apologies, I knew when I wrote it it would sound awful and I didn't mean it to.
In no way way I meaning class system , I meant more the quality/ability of a buyer to know a good from bad horse and not expect a machine with full wardrobe and delivery included!
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
Sometimes when you write things down it doesn't come across right
maybe your not stuck up then 
TGM
Well-Known Member
Because, I suspect, the 'cheap horses' mentioned on this thread were not bought at the stage that they were already doing all these things. You can easily find 'cheap' horses who MAY (or may not) be capable of going on to hack sensibly on their own, jump well, be capable of respectable scores at affiliated dressage etc. What is harder to find, and more expensive to buy, are horses who are PROVEN to do these things, without having any other price-limiting factors such as sarcoids, minor unsoundnesses, stable vices, etc.
cbmcts
Well-Known Member
This is so true - I could go and buy a horse(as could anyone else to be fair) that has potential to become a very useful type but needs work. I've done that in the past successfully. These days I need someone else to do the hard work so the purchase price has to include that and you also have to recognise the costs and time that go into making a sane, sensible horse aren't cheap if done well.
Personally I wouldn't want to pay a huge premium for breeding but that's because I'm not competing or interested in breeding my own but we do need to keep quality up unless we want horses to settle to the lowest common denominator. And from what I've seen the only way breeders can make money, or at least cover costs in the middle market is to hold onto their foals and produce them to sell as 5/6 year olds.
I have great admiration for those that can take a cheap(er) horse and produce it themselves but I've learnt my limitations the hard way so I have to expect to pay the premium that these RC/happy hackers command. And I don't begruge it a bit...
Bernster
Well-Known Member
Haven't caught up on all the latest posts on this thread, but def agree with this.
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
There's plenty of cheap horses about that are often just as good as the expensive ones (especially if like me, people don't mind putting some work into the horse). I have never bought a "well bred" horse, I mean I've ended up with well bred ones but I would never buy specifically for breeding. I buy based on temperament so as long as thats in place and they are sound etc. then I'm happy, and there's plenty of cheap ones that fit the bill. Lots of rubbish too obviously but if you know what to look for then you can get a bargain and who doesnt like a bargain? I think it is very sad that breeders cant get the prices they deserve, it must be a very tough life doing it!
monkeynut
Well-Known Member
It's frustrating. I am currently trying to sell my 4yr old ISH, he's a quality lad with potential to make a cracking eventer but I have had no interest in him other than someone say they would give me £500 for him (!) he's up for 2k but it seems everyone wants a cheapy.
be positive
Well-Known Member
If he is 5 this year and riding nicely ready to go on this season then I would wait a month, put in as much work as possible, get some really good photos and double the price, 2k is cheap in my mind for a horse bred to event and ready to get on with, if he is only 4 this time then I would probably still be thinking 3-3.5k to attract someone looking for a horse to bring on but it may still be a bit early in the year to get much interest.
monkeynut
Well-Known Member
Thanks, he's unbroken (lunged, long reined and worn tack etc) 4 this year.
He's a lovely kind boy but my son is in and out of hospital so I don't have the time to put the work in. Totally genuine sale but no one is interested!
ihatework
Well-Known Member
For people looking for a 4yo ISH to produce to event 2k would be considered very cheap.
If he is backed, reasonable looking, reasonable confo and straight enough moving, with no major vices or hang ups then this is precisely the scenario whereby a bit of elbow grease, some time spent on decent photos, a well worded advert and a doubled price tag might yield you a much easier sale!
At 2k I'd be interested to see your current advert if possible. I've been toying with the idea of buying something for the summer.
Llanali
Well-Known Member
^^ I think he's too cheap. I would advertise at 3k as something prepared for backing but not yet ridden away. If he is capable as you say, I would expect £4k if broken and riding away. Sorry to hear your son is unwell, I wish him a speedy and full recovery x
catkin
Well-Known Member
The thing that worries me most about so many good breeders giving up is not just the dearth of good horses that will be available in years to come but also the knowledge of bloodlines and history of the breed that goes with those people. I've now bought a couple of horses as youngsters directly from their breeders and the sharing of their knowledge by these people has been valuable over and above any premium on the price of the individual horse. There's something intangible yet priceless about having a horse with a heritage even if you are not ever wishing to breed yourself.
and for those who say 'oh I only want a hack etc...' - well, the best hacks/pleasure horses I've had over the past 40 odd years have actually been the well-bred ones, not just because of their undeniable beauty looking over the stable door at you each morning, but also that extra presence, cleverness, and enjoyment of having fun with a nice horse. That might sound a bit romantic, fluffy or perhaps snobby to some of you - if you've ever been lucky enough to share your life with a well-bred horse you'll know what I mean about that 'extra-ness' that's worth over and above any premium on purchase price.
and for those who say 'oh I only want a hack etc...' - well, the best hacks/pleasure horses I've had over the past 40 odd years have actually been the well-bred ones, not just because of their undeniable beauty looking over the stable door at you each morning, but also that extra presence, cleverness, and enjoyment of having fun with a nice horse. That might sound a bit romantic, fluffy or perhaps snobby to some of you - if you've ever been lucky enough to share your life with a well-bred horse you'll know what I mean about that 'extra-ness' that's worth over and above any premium on purchase price.
tristar
Well-Known Member
oh catkin what a great post! love that extra-ness!
my lad goes back the polish arab comet, he is so like him, I feel honoured to have a piece of such a great stallion, gives me goosebumps just to think about it.
my lad goes back the polish arab comet, he is so like him, I feel honoured to have a piece of such a great stallion, gives me goosebumps just to think about it.
Luci07
Well-Known Member
This is depressing reading. There has been quite a bit written recently whereby breeders are seeing a real lack of horses available in the middle market. Short term, the market can push prices down but long term, when these breeders have voted with their feet and are no longer doing this, prices will shoot up. I see prices for event horses in the US and I don't think I would ever be able to afford a horse over there.
When all is said and done, there is no such thing as a cheap horse. If you have been able to start the process off with a low cost horse and can make it into what you want, you really should factor in the cost of your experience to be able to do this. What is the final product and what is that worth?
When all is said and done, there is no such thing as a cheap horse. If you have been able to start the process off with a low cost horse and can make it into what you want, you really should factor in the cost of your experience to be able to do this. What is the final product and what is that worth?
kassieg
Well-Known Member
I agree 2k is too cheap for him!
I'd be putting him at 3.5k expecting 3k
Anyone looking to produce a nice young eventer would happily pay that for some good breeding, a nicely put together horse that has been started well
Lulup
Well-Known Member
Just reading this post with interest as I am currently horse hunting - I probably wouldn't bother to look at a nice looking, event bred 4yo advertised for 2k because I'm happy to pay decent money in return for a decent horse and generally you get what you pay for so I'd be expecting the common scenario of driving (probably half way across the country) to find something that barely matches the description or that is being sold as 'unbacked' when in fact several have tried/failed and the real description should read 'unbackable'! Sadly you have to be really suspicious when buying and believe nothing that you're told - check everything for yourself. I do a sensible amount of Internet 'snooping' because I don't want too many wasted trips and it's amazing what you uncover! I feel disheartened that genuine breeders of quality horses cannot command the prices required when people like me cannot find what we are looking for among the masses of dealers offering cheap young horses that apparently will 'reach the top in any discipline' and 'aren't phased by anything'! I would be happy to hear from any of you decent breeders who have nicely bred 4/5/6 year olds who have had a decent start and are sane and friendly enough to be produced by an amateur and will in return be loved/pampered for life
DirectorFury
Well-Known Member
I was horse shopping but now have 'the fear' after seeing a horse on the yard be sold for £4k and pass a vetting (2 stage), despite recurring lameness problems that the seller did not disclose. The horse was cheap for what the advert claimed, even though many statements were untrue.
Out of interest, what price would people expect to pay for the following. 3-4yo, unbacked, to make 16hh - 16.3hh, some sort of ISH/SF/WB x TB. Colour and gender not really a concern, but I'd prefer a mare. Good confo and a nice 'person', but I don't mind if it's not had much done on the ground. I'm not looking for a world-beater, something that could get round Novice BE in a few years would be a bonus. Current budget of £6k but I'm thinking I need to increase it! Happy to go to Ireland or the continent.
Out of interest, what price would people expect to pay for the following. 3-4yo, unbacked, to make 16hh - 16.3hh, some sort of ISH/SF/WB x TB. Colour and gender not really a concern, but I'd prefer a mare. Good confo and a nice 'person', but I don't mind if it's not had much done on the ground. I'm not looking for a world-beater, something that could get round Novice BE in a few years would be a bonus. Current budget of £6k but I'm thinking I need to increase it! Happy to go to Ireland or the continent.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
If you head over to Ireland with £6K (especially if you time it right with a good euro exchange) you will get a nice raw 3-4yo for that and likely the type of breed mix you are thinking as well. Seems to be a lot of ISH crossed with warmblood a that have Irish passport.
To be fair, you should find what you want in England, dealers like Irish horse imports have a lot of miderate quality 3-4k types but do bring over the odd one that is better
Rollin
Well-Known Member
Just reading this post with interest as I am currently horse hunting - I probably wouldn't bother to look at a nice looking, event bred 4yo advertised for 2k because I'm happy to pay decent money in return for a decent horse and generally you get what you pay for so I'd be expecting the common scenario of driving (probably half way across the country) to find something that barely matches the description or that is being sold as 'unbacked' when in fact several have tried/failed and the real description should read 'unbackable'! Sadly you have to be really suspicious when buying and believe nothing that you're told - check everything for yourself. I do a sensible amount of Internet 'snooping' because I don't want too many wasted trips and it's amazing what you uncover! I feel disheartened that genuine breeders of quality horses cannot command the prices required when people like me cannot find what we are looking for among the masses of dealers offering cheap young horses that apparently will 'reach the top in any discipline' and 'aren't phased by anything'! I would be happy to hear from any of you decent breeders who have nicely bred 4/5/6 year olds who have had a decent start and are sane and friendly enough to be produced by an amateur and will in return be loved/pampered for life
Ditto this. I am now getting too old to run on our youngsters so will stop breeding horses next year. We have a 6 year old home bred Shagya for sale, her full brother is graded for two stud books. Her pedigree is A1. She competed 7 times as a 5 year old at 95cm, 4 clear rounds, 4 four faults and 8 faults first time out. She has been professional produced and now jumping clear at 1.05cm. I get lots of people ringing up looking for a cheap horse. I want 10,000 euros for her which does not give me a profit at all. We purchased her dam from the Hungarian National Stud, including the mare's time in foal this for the breeder is an up front investment of 7 years, with no expense spared. Can you keep a horse for 7 years for £20/week? No.
I see the same with our other rare breed, the Cleveland Bay, we would collect from our QA stallion except we would never recover the vet , collection and storage fees from semen sales.
As someone has already said, good breeders give up and there will continue to be hundreds of heinz 57's available for less than I would pay in stud fees.
Do not mis-understand this is not sour grapes, we are proud of what we breed but we do it for love.
Charmel
Well-Known Member
My major bugbear with people wanting to buy a horse and pay very little money is when they say "well, she only paid ?? for it and now a year later want more than double the price" or how can it be worth that when they only paid ?? for it. A friend of mine bought a cheap unbroken barely halter broken but registered Welsh x WB 4.5 year old gelding. She worked very hard breaking him in, teaching him to load attended numerous schooling sessions. Then started competing from 60cm and eventually up to 1m tracks successfully. Dressage scores over 70% and over. Plus he hunts calmly and hacks out alone or company pretty much anywhere. What more he is a very striking horse to look at. He is now 6 and she wants to sell him on as never was meant to be a long term prospect and she is too tall for him she is 5,11 and he is just 15.2H. All she has had is grief from people who believe his £3k price tag is too high as she only paid £400 for him. She has had offers of about £800.