Why are hunters so impolite?

[weebarney]

When we have so many endangered species in the world,try fighting for the black/white rhino,the oodles of species of monkeys,girraffes [sp] zebra,elephants.You know the sorts of animals who roam free dont destroy peoples livelyhoods.And just generally keep out of peoples ways and keep themselves to themselves.

Oh my god that whole post is such a load of rubbish i'm having to consider whether its someone pulling my leg. But the bit quoted above really is ignorance beyond belief!

 

[weebarney]

I think anyone who has the slightest knowledge of hunting knows there are knuckle draggers involved as well as aristocrats.

The irony of this posting in the context of the thread's title is quite staggering!

Well if people want the truth they get it! That whole class thing is such a load of rubbish, its just people jumping on the old prejudice/minority bandwaggon.

 

[combat_claire]

There are however ways of phrasing things without making them quite so offensive. I don't think you are really helping ZigZag's case or indeed your own by resorting to such language.

It is perfectly possible to debate both sides of this argument without the need for rudeness from either side.

 

[Scratchline]

[/quote]i never said all hunters were saints, but what i am saying is that we are not rude, we respect other people...
what would you prefer:
a) foxes being caught in snairs and suffering a far more painful death, as snairs do not always work, and foxes will even go to the extent of chewing there own leg off to free themselves
b) to have a hugely overpopulate country, not just countryside full of foxes
c) for foxes to be chased and having little chance of actually being caught....?
if you choose a then you cant call us cruel or barbarack.... if you choose b, then good luck sorting out your bins every morning etc etc.

d) licenced marksmen? Or wasnt that option emotional enough for your silly arguement?!

hunting with hounds is a cruelty free way to kill foxes, foxes have got to be controlled, humans upset the balance in the first palce, so now we need to correct it.

I am not sure which is the most ludicrous. Suggesting hunting with hounds is not cruel or that it is in any way a successful means of pest control.

 

[Hebegebe]

.n any way a successful means of pest control.

It is a very good means of wildlife management a different thing altogether from pest control.

It also causes far less suffering than shooting and snaring.

 

[combat_claire]

One thing I have wondered is why the anti-hunting activists who have been around since Edwardian times haven't yet managed to come up with a better alternative to fox control than hunting with hounds. The Hunting Act 2004 provided this marvellous opportunity for them to trumpet their alternative solution but they remained deathly silent on the issue.

Hunting with hounds has always been the only method that discriminates between the foxes likely to predate stock and those that don't, by removing the weak, sick and injured foxes from the gene pool it ensured that the population was managed to acceptable levels. The intention was never to slaughter every fox, only to make sure that they didn't reach plague proportions. This was something that hunting did best of all.

Recent research by the Middle Way group who are neither pro or anti leaning has found that more foxes have been killed in more cruel ways than pre-ban. What a success the law you lobbied so hard for has been, not.

 

[Hebegebe]

I agree,

It's quite incredible that they think flushing out foxes and deer and then slaughtering them wholesale with guns while they are running is LESS cruel and a BETTER form of wildlife management.

It's utterly absurd.

These people do not have a clue.

 

[combat_claire]

Incidentally as far as the policing tactics strand of this debate goes. This was published in The Times today: Well worth a read.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6062581.ece

 

[Hebegebe]

I used to go on demos when I was younger and I remember seeing people hauled off down side streets and given a thorough kicking by the police

Before everyone had video cameras in their phones of course

 

[MontyandZoom]

I have to say that, as a genuinely interested newcomer, I am a prime target to be swayed either way. However, where Claire's answers are always well-thought out, rational responses to my queries, the antis seem to only reply with talk of 'barbaric' and 'evil'.

Nearly every time I have asked a proper question, I am met with silence from the anti side.

I am slowly becoming pro by default : ) x

 

[Hebegebe]

Incidentally as far as the policing tactics strand of this debate goes. This was published in The Times today: Well worth a read.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6062581.ece

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/07/video-g20-police-assault

 

[lastrebel]

ok, ask away and I will try to give you a rational answer.

 

[Rollin]

I don't wish to enter into the debate either for or anti, but will point out that in this part fo France they hunt with terriers and guns (no horses and hounds) and Reynard doesn't stand a chance.

 

[weebarney]

Hunting with hounds has always been the only method that discriminates between the foxes likely to predate stock and those that don't, by removing the weak, sick and injured foxes from the gene pool it ensured that the population was managed to acceptable levels. The intention was never to slaughter every fox, only to make sure that they didn't reach plague proportions. This was something that hunting did best of all.

Is removing the sick and weak who are unlikely to breed not just going to encourage the healthy foxes to breed more?, thus compounding the 'problem'.

 

[weebarney]

There are however ways of phrasing things without making them quite so offensive. I don't think you are really helping ZigZag's case or indeed your own by resorting to such language.

It is perfectly possible to debate both sides of this argument without the need for rudeness from either side.

Would you prefer me to say mentally challenged? although i dont think that really his the spot.

 

[Grey_Eventer]

no, foxes breed any way they dont think, "oh right so lots of the weak foxes have been killed, lets breed more", they have a certain time of year for breeding.... they only breed once a year, and not every year.....

 

[combat_claire]

You could perhaps have phrased it along the lines of 'a wide variety of people are involved in hunting'

See it really is very easy to make the same point, without resorting to being offensive.

 

[combat_claire]

The right number of foxes in the countryside is important, they eat slugs and invertebrates which is helpful for growing crops, but when there are too many of them they start to seek an easy meal and predate on domesticated stock.

Killing off the weaker foxes ensures that there is a healthy, sustainable population to keep the balance. As Perdy points out, foxes only have 1 litter each year and removing the weaker ones smply keeps the numbers at tolerable levels.

Of course tolerable levels is something that the anti-hunting brigade really don't understand. Our local keeper went out lamping and shot over 20 foxes in a night, because people had gone out and released town foxes into the woods. They didn't have a clue that you run from the lamp. To them the bright lights meant food and friendship. They didn't have any knowledge of how to feed themselves and the whole woodland ecosystem was simply not designed to support that many foxes.

 

[weebarney]

But its only common sense (and the level of science i believe is taught at primary school) that if you remove the competition you then are allowing other foxes more food which in turn will mean they will be more successful at breeding due to the fact that sick and injured animals arent as likely to breed.

 

[weebarney]

just read one of your posts zigzagzig... so now my father is a thug... yes of course, a man who goes to work in london everday, has 2 children, a wife, 2 gods and 5 hroses, who dresses in a suit for work, and wears generally smart clothing is a thug... no i dont think so....not everyone who was at the march is a thug, and not everyone at the front was a thug- very few in fact!

What does a thug look like?

 

[Scratchline]

What does a thug look like?

Funny enough, just like those who were involved with the violence when the CA attacked the police in London.
I believe perdy told us that her father was involved in the violent clashes with the brave police attempting to keep law and order that day. And that her parents, knowing what her father would get himself involved in wouldnt let her attend the march. Or something like that )

 

[Scratchline]

It is a very good means of wildlife management a different thing altogether from pest control.

And amazingly covers all angles ) lol lol There is no place in our country for a sport that involves a pack of dogs chaising and ripping apart a living animal.

It also causes far less suffering than shooting and snaring.

Shooting by competent riflemen is the simple solution. Leave wildlife management to wildlife and pest control to Licenced pest controllers only.

 

[weebarney]

maybe some people think all thugs wear hoodies and lurk about the streets.

 

[Scratchline]

[quoteIt's quite incredible that they think flushing out foxes and deer and then slaughtering them wholesale with guns while they are running is LESS cruel and a BETTER form of wildlife management.

I thought foxes were hunted because they are a pest. If not and it is a welfare interest in poor sick or old foxes, why chase them and rip them apart with packs of hounds?

 

[Scratchline]

And of course police uniforms ) Never the protester! lol lol lol

 

[Grey_Eventer]

What does a thug look like?

Funny enough, just like those who were involved with the violence when the CA attacked the police in London.
I believe perdy told us that her father was involved in the violent clashes with the brave police attempting to keep law and order that day. And that her parents, knowing what her father would get himself involved in wouldnt let her attend the march. Or something like that )

no they didnt intend to get into any trouble, trust me on this one, 45+ year olds do not go out to get into trouble....they didnt let me go because they didnt want to let me see what the government has done to our lives..... he did not intend to get into trouble at all... if you met him, you would see that he is not this kind of person.... he was shoved to the front, and yes when the police pushed against them, of course he had to push back due to the strength of the crowd behind him... he certaintly did not go out to cause trouble, the police did not help the situation what so ever, they should have been more organised, they shuold have been prepared for the march, they knew thousands would turn up as it was peoples livlihood at stake, the should have known that we would be angry- every right to be so, the government were trying to ruin our livlihood, our jobs.....you obviously do not understand what that last days hunting was like for us, you dont understand what that fight was like for us, the un certainty of the future, we didnt know what was going to happen, we didnt know if we were going to have jobs tommorow- im sure many people are feeling this right now, and that is what we felt then, not knowing whether we would have a job tommorow, not knowing what the government was going to pass as a law, that feeling its horrible and im sure many people know of it.....i went to every march apart from that one, even as a toddler i went, as that was my life, my parents life, and i am so glad that my grandfather died before that day, as that would have broken him....

 

[Hebegebe]

" Leave wildlife management to wildlife "

But the foxes predators have been removed so there is no wildlife to remo0ve it to.,

I manage my wildlife using dogs as I know it is the best way.

Licensed marksmen still wound foxes. Dogs never do.

 

[weebarney]

[/quote]

no they didnt intend to get into any trouble, trust me on this one, 45+ year olds do not go out to get into trouble [/quote]

Yes they do!

 

[lastrebel]

Perdy I appreciate your 15, but
" The goverment were trying to riun our livlihoods our jobs"
What does your father actually do I thought he worked in London?

"you obviously do not understand what that last days hunting was like for us, you dont understand what that fight was like for us, the un certainty of the future, we didnt know what was going to happen, we didnt know if we were going to have jobs tommorow" We are talking about foxhunting arnt we, not the Germans invading ?

 

[Grey_Eventer]

he does now, but he didnt before, sorry i didnt tell you my dads life story....... and youve answered my qeustion, you dont understand, and yes we are talking about foxhunting but that was what it was like.......