Why are people breeding lame mares

[Lexi 123]

I have a friend who breeds her mare she is expecting her 5 foal next mouth . The mare has been unsound for years and some of her offspring has developed the same problem. Why do people breed from lame mares that could pass on there illness.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Because they have a working uterus and they don't think further than that.

 

[SpeedyPony]

I don't know, but this is a pet peeve of mine as well.
I can sort of understand breeding from a mare with a good working history that had a freak accident that left her unsound (kick in the field perhaps?) but not anything that has become unsound through work (or worse before even starting a working life!).

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

I see lots of adverts, can’t be ridden, will be a good broodmare, not sound. Surely anything lame will be made worse by carrying a foal?

 

[Tarragon]

A lameness due to an injury won't affect the foal, unless the injury was caused by a conformation fault.

 

[LEC]

Depends on what the original issue is. Is it hereditary? Is it a conformation fault or is it a management issue?

I have one at the moment who is 1/10 lame in front but can still be hacked. She had a field accident as a 6yo which has caused the issue we now have with suspensorys. Hocks x rayed clean a month ago but she has an asymmetry in the hock (they became cow hocked afterwards probably through compensation) caused by the field accident which has put pressure on the suspensorys. She has also got perfect breeding and her conformation is good. She evented to Novice even with the asymmetry but its just caught up with her now. So in my mind, she is a good candidate.

I think we also underestimate how foals are bought up. I have a pathological loathing of people bringing up foals with an elderly companion in a 2 acre field. They should be with other youngsters roughing and tumbling. Learning social skills. For me a significant part of the reason we have so many issues is the way horses are bought up from 0-3yo. It is not considered enough.

 

[SpeedyPony]

A lameness due to an injury won't affect the foal, unless the injury was caused by a conformation fault.

That was what I was thinking really, that yes accidents happen, but I'd want to be really certain it wasn't in any way related to conformation or stumbling due to arthritic changes/neurological issues. There are plenty of sound horses to breed from, if in any doubt I wouldn't be going for one that had gone wrong.

 

[mariew]

Because they can't be ridden and people don't know what to do with them and don't want to just retire or PTS? I have seen mares for sale recently with all sorts of stuff wrong with them that probably shouldn't be bred from. (Very rarely is not ridden due to accident injury given as a reason).

 

[luckyoldme]

I have to say that years ago we saw some right sights come to us on a stud yard.
From obviously much loved horses to mares who were no more than a womb to their owners.
I still remember a mate coming to us with an open sore which was well on the mend when she went home. She came back the following year with the same sore back to its original state

 

[Ceifer]

I have the same peeve. A livery on our yard sent her mare to a stud. Mare has bad conformation and never been sound, terrible feet, possible arthritic changes through hocks at 5, vet also mentioned sacro issues that weren’t investigated. She’s had really bad ulcers probably caused through pain elsewhere and is also a complete baggage to deal with, again probably through pain somewhere.
Owner didn’t want to pay to retire her, she wouldn’t make a great companion. But seeing as she has good bloodlines she decided to breed a foal ?

 

[KEK]

I find it really strange too. Coming from the dog world, we do heaps of health screening incl xrays of hips hocks backs shoulders elbows etc.. and unsound animals don’t get bred from.

 

[PapaverFollis]

We should be breeding from mares that have held up to a good level of work I agree. But in practice that means breeding from older mares who still have value as a riding horse... that's a tricky risk to take for an ordinary horse owner. Whereas breeding from a mare that has broken down is probably an easier prospect, as there's less to lose. Which I think is why we see a skew towards people doing that in terms of amateur owners producing a homebred anyway.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I think it depends entirely on the circumstances of the horse, the lameness and the intention for the foals.

It is worth bearing in mind that we are much better at understanding and diagnosing lameness these days so a lot of horses that would previously have been considered sound but “cold backed” “sharp” or “stiff” are probably diagnosed with something.

We have some very nice horses in the world that are a product of hundreds of years of breeding animals that would now be considered “unsound”.

I have more of a problem with breeding for exaggerated traits, and closely bred purebreds than if a nice mare has gone lame but can easily carry a foal. Obviously, hereditary or serious conformation issues aside.

I mean, truly, how many of us humans would be considered 100% sound?

 

[Xmasha]

I hate those adverts too. seems to be a way to shift a mare thats broken and still get a few ££ back rather than spend money either treating or PTS.
My other pet hate is when you see mares bred from year after year with no break and those that arent given any of the basic care. When i say basic i mean as basic as feet and teeth.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I hate the angle of ‘oh i love them and I’ll always keep the baby’ or ‘and wouldn’t it just be wonderful to have a *insert horse name here* baby as she is my world/owes me nothing/is my heart horse etc’

I toyed with the idea of breeding from Eowyn as she had a tendon injury and would come sound with time. I’d gotten round to deciding on what breed of stallion then I lost my job. So she moved on once sound and Kia went on long term loan to the top of Scotland. Had I put her in foal I’d have been left with an infoal mare and no money to keep her. My thoughts were the foal would give me something sporty to compete on. With circumstance I wouldn’t have been able to keep her or the foal.

 

[katastrophykat]

Guilty- but mine was an example of a random field accident and not coming ‘work sound’ but perfectly field sound, with full vet approval and a stallion chosen to level out any small confirmation faults (patterns on the shorter side, fiery temperament) and aside from the foal growing far bigger than expected, he was an is still everything I wanted. Nicely put together, settled brain, trainable and sellable if needed. Or at least he was until I turned a carriage over with him in front- he’s had a decent amount of time off since, been slowly rehabbed by my friend who has him on loan from me, and is hopefully coming back out at club competition this year ??. I agree that there are some things that I wouldn’t breed from, sound or not, and some congenital lameness issues that I’d never want to risk passing on, but there are plenty of mares producing decent youngstock of all levels due to careers being cut short after an unavoidable injury that are ensuring a continuation of all rounders and competition horses at all levels.

 

[milliepops]

Guilty- but mine was an example of a random field accident and not coming ‘work sound’ but perfectly field sound, with full vet approval and a stallion chosen to level out any small confirmation faults (patterns on the shorter side, fiery temperament) and aside from the foal growing far bigger than expected, he was an is still everything I wanted. Nicely put together, settled brain, trainable and sellable if needed. Or at least he was until I turned a carriage over with him in front- he’s had a decent amount of time off since, been slowly rehabbed by my friend who has him on loan from me, and is hopefully coming back out at club competition this year ??. I agree that there are some things that I wouldn’t breed from, sound or not, and some congenital lameness issues that I’d never want to risk passing on, but there are plenty of mares producing decent youngstock of all levels due to careers being cut short after an unavoidable injury that are ensuring a continuation of all rounders and competition horses at all levels.

yeah i agree with the theory but also guilty... my mare was written off due to injury sustained through accident and I quizzed the vet, who was completely satisfied that she was suitable and capable of breeding successfully. I had intended to compete her for a few years and then put her in foal at the time we bought her, as her bloodlines are of interest to me. We went ahead and she's had a lovely foal who will be my next riding horse all being well.
I would never intend to sell the foal, but the stallion we chose has lots of nice straightforward progeny out doing good things so if something unforeseen should happen, hopefully she would be pretty saleable anyway.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Also guilty. Amber's going to stud in a couple of weeks. But my vet is totally happy with that and he is generally against breeding from unsound mares. He's a big embryo transfer fan so mares still out competing can be bred from. But she had a field accident and there is no reason she would struggle to carry a foal or pass problems onto one. The plan is to keep the foal but I may sell on a colt (I am a mare girl, definitely).

 

[katastrophykat]

Also guilty. Amber's going to stud in a couple of weeks. But my vet is totally happy with that and he is generally against breeding from unsound mares. He's a big embryo transfer fan so mares still out competing can be bred from. But she had a field accident and there is no reason she would struggle to carry a foal or pass problems onto one. The plan is to keep the foal but I may sell on a colt (I am a mare girl, definitely).

Hahahahahaha... I said that too. I only had mares for about 8 years, bred a colt (absolutely to be sold) and now own 5 geldings. There have been no mares since then ?

 

[milliepops]

i thought I would have not loved a colt as much as a filly but tbh i think i could not possibly have sold the precious first born

 

[scats]

I’m a bit torn on this one really. I would love to have a homebred from Polly, although she has mild PSD and a few other issues, these are the result of an accident (hit by a tractor) and the aftermath of, though arguably her straighter hind limb confo has likely played a part in the PSD developing.
Millie has had a foal and though I would love a Millie baby, it certainly wouldn’t be for a good number of years.

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s a hard one this but I would rather have a foal from a mare that had taken some work and then gone lame than one a young mare that had never done a days work .
conformation and temperament are key in a mare then her breeding .

 

[pansymouse]

I have an acquaintance who is expecting a from from her chronically unsound mare that has never been in serious work and comes from a long line of chronically unsound horses. She has been told it's a stupid idea but will not accept she doing anything wrong.

 

[Caol Ila]

Also guilty. Amber's going to stud in a couple of weeks. But my vet is totally happy with that and he is generally against breeding from unsound mares. He's a big embryo transfer fan so mares still out competing can be bred from. But she had a field accident and there is no reason she would struggle to carry a foal or pass problems onto one. The plan is to keep the foal but I may sell on a colt (I am a mare girl, definitely).

That's exciting news, AE. Who are you breeding her to?

 

[throwawayaccount]

my mare would be a lovely mum, however she doesn't have the conformation for it and what with her lameness I think carrying a foal would make her even worse

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Unfortunately many mares that are unsound even from an acquired injury are then bred from, purely because owners don't want to have an expensive field ornament. They then think breeding from the mare will recoup any loss they may have accumulated buying and then treating the mare through the injury or episode.

Breeding from a mare can be hugely expensive, especially if you intend to keep the foal for long enough to become a ridden horse. Very often the outlay in costs, time and heartache is never anywhere near the foals actual value.

I also think people grossly underestimate the importance of temperament when breeding from a broken mare. If she was a grumpy, temperamental and difficult or dangerous ride before you bred from her, it is very likely the foal could turn out to have the same iffy temperament and be worth just above zero on the open market.

Basically I would leave it to the experts who know exactly what they are breeding from, both the sire and dam and what sort they are producing with that knowledge. Already too many ill bred youngstock on the market passing on their unwanted gene pool to a very overpopulated market.

 

[Goldenstar]

Personally I think there’s not enough sensible quality all rounders bred and because of that there are lots of people struggling on failed to make the grade competition types many of whom are not great at the all rounder good hack type jobs.

 

[ihatework]

Personally I think there’s not enough sensible quality all rounders bred and because of that there are lots of people struggling failed to make the grade competition types many of whom are not great at the all rounder good hack type jobs.

They are the type I’d like to breed and sell in an ideal world, because they are the ones I’m confident I could produce well myself without forking out thousands on pro help.

But I’m afraid I’m not willing to do it at a huge financial loss. Which is what the buyers of these types expect.

 

[Tiddlypom]

But I’m afraid I’m not willing to do it at a huge financial loss. Which is what the buyers of these types expect.

Yes, because from another thread:-

Horse ownership will become an elitist hobby if the prices stay where they are. Normal people cannot afford to pay a five figure sum for a basic safe allrounder.

To breed and then produce a good basic ridden allrounder, ready to go out be enjoyed by the new owner will cost the breeders five figures, if they are honest with themselves about the costs ?‍.

 

[ArklePig]

Because, like humans, females are often seen as being a womb first and a sentient being second. The old 'just because you can doesn't mean you should' springs to mind.