Why are yards bitchy?

QueenOfCadence said:
Monkeybum it's this horse's first show in 3 years at a new level with tests I've ridden once or twice before. I agree with you that I'm probably over reacting - but please explain how I'm supposed to practice a 7m volte` with a shoulder in up the long side of the arena in a 20 x 60 dressage arena with 3 other horses in it?

Sophie might suggest that - we do have a bookings board for lessons so that lessons aren't interrupted so it might work well. May encourage the YO on the rules thing too - generally I think that part is just ignorance (nothing mean intended), but it's a little hard to manoeuvre 17 hands around 3 other horses :p
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Did the other liveries know that you wanted to train at that moment in time?

It's probably a huge misunderstanding and non communication easily solved by having a booking system.

I wasn't there but are they really the sort to use that particular arena just to p*ss you off?

Did you ask them and let them know why you wanted that particular arena?
 
It is very hurtful esp to the receiver (esp when not deserved) bit like bullying really, but as others have said before there is so much of it in the world these days, that the best form of defence is to ignore, it is their loss, sadly they will probably never realise that either.
 
QueenOfCadence said:
Monkeybum it's this horse's first show in 3 years at a new level with tests I've ridden once or twice before. I agree with you that I'm probably over reacting - but please explain how I'm supposed to practice a 7m volte` with a shoulder in up the long side of the arena in a 20 x 60 dressage arena with 3 other horses in it?
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Very easily, just tell them that you want to practise this movement and do they mind if they can mind out of your way for a couple of minutes whilst you practise it.

Sounds like a lack of communication to me.
 
QueenOfCadence said:
Have the same problem at our yard:o. At our yard it's 97% hackers/people who just want to trot around once a week (all fine, to each their own) and then the other 3% is VERY specialised (all above Elementary dressage if they compete in dressage or jump B grade or above) - so I do think it partly comes down to jealousy but also to a clash of interests. For example, I know I can send out the wrong signals myself - especially if I have to practice my dressage tests the week before a show but they're all occupied by people who just want to ride in them for no reason - if I do then ride my tests in said arena the other riders will view me as rude for riding them out of the way and I'd view them as selfish for not riding in the 3 other arenas we have when they all know I have a show coming up

actually come to think of it - it's a clash of interests quite often:p
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The yard I keep my horse at is like this - quite a mixture of activities, some serious competition riders and some happy to hack etc without the pressure of competitions. I enjoy dressage, and take it quite seriously, but I would never consider someone who usually hacks to have any less right to use the school than I do, they pay the same livery fees as I do, so why would I consider they can't use the school whenever it suits them, and why should they feel they have to have a good reason to do so?

Yes sometimes it is frustrating when I'm riding in there with people who dont understand the "rules of the school" - but it is all about "give and take", (and I consider it good practice for when I am working in at a competition alongside riders who regularly compete and still don't know the "rules of the school" etc.)

I might add that if I really need to practice a particular movement, I can simply shout out what my intention is and other people would give way for a few minutes - and I am sure that they know I would return the favour to them if they needed me to. Equally so, if I see someone putting a course of jumps up in the school I might change my plan and ride a little later or hack if possible so that they can practice their jumping without me getting under their feet.

The secret is to be interested in what other people do, and to give their activities equal respect, and your support if they need it. Think before you speak, and treat others as you would have them treat you, then apply a little "forgiveness" from time to time when other people step out of line - in the hope that they may forgive you in return when you also have a thoughtless moment!
 
Anglebracket said:
In my experience it will be, unless there are clear yard rules and strong leadership from the yard owner / yard manager.
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I'm afraid I agree with this . . . my current YO takes liveries solely on recommendation from existing liveries - and has been known to not have space for those folks who received a less than glowing review from existing liveries. He is pretty laid back but makes his presence felt (he has two of his own horses right in the middle of the yard and does all the maintenance, etc. so is there for large chunks of every weekday and lives on-site) and will do his best to sort out livery angst, but for all he's a great laugh and friendly and easy-going, he doesn't suffer fools and doesn't put up with too much nonsense . . . because he sets the tone, it trickles down and although there is some bitchiness, it's nowhere near the scale I have witnessed on some yards.

P
 
The nice people I actively encourage. There is a lady who was so pleased to do a dressage test and not forget where she was going, and I was really pleased for her and encouraged her. Like with others who do Riding club stuff ocaisionally at the yard, I always wish them luck and ask how they got on. It is is the other bitchy folk who to be honest are overhorsed and are having troubles that can't stand it when I take the lorry out and go competing and to be honest I dont think they like the kids or adults doing riding club stuff either!

I even have taken my time to teach a novice lady for free as I like her and she was so chuffed at Christmas when I did some grids with her and she jumped the highest she'd ever jumped and was grinning for a week!

I do also agree with Queen of Cadence, I got told I was riding into someone and pushing them out of the school. I was only doing leg yeilding, shoulder in and flying changes but she thought I was doing it deliberately and had no idea what I was doing. Even if I had of said what I was doing she wouldn't of known what was coming and still thought I was doing it to annoy her!
 
QueenOfCadence said:
Have the same problem at our yard:o. At our yard it's 97% hackers/people who just want to trot around once a week (all fine, to each their own) and then the other 3% is VERY specialised (all above Elementary dressage if they compete in dressage or jump B grade or above) - so I do think it partly comes down to jealousy but also to a clash of interests. For example, I know I can send out the wrong signals myself - especially if I have to practice my dressage tests the week before a show but they're all occupied by people who just want to ride in them for no reason - if I do then ride my tests in said arena the other riders will view me as rude for riding them out of the way and I'd view them as selfish for not riding in the 3 other arenas we have when they all know I have a show coming up

actually come to think of it - it's a clash of interests quite often:p
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Ride in an arena for no reason? How do you make that one out?

..and I might add, why should they make their plans around you just because you 'have a show coming up'.

You either need a decent rota or understand that the colour of someone's money is the same, whether they keep a horse for a pet or go BE, if they are all in the same yard together....
 
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Human beings are often bitchy generally, but on a yard you have the added complications that:

1) This is something people invest an enormous amount of time and emotion in, and
2) There is nothing, NOTHING, in the equestrian world that can only be done one way, so the chances that people will agree with absolutely everything that you do to your horse are slim to none!

IME, it's the Yard Owner who make the difference whether the bitching is kept under control - I've got one at the moment who is just such a thoroughly decent non-bitchy person that (AFAIK) it sets the tone for everyone and it's a really supportive place. My last YO kept it under control by proactively addressing it whenever it came up, not bitching herself, and not getting too close to anyone.

Bitching can be controlled by yard standards in exactly the same way as muckheap maintenance - a good YO just needs to set the standards and be absolutely consistent.
 
I've never been on a bitchy yard.

Maybe I'm just lucky. Or maybe it's just that certain people that have a certain attitude that find others 'bitchy'?

I'm pleasant to pretty much everyone, and find I get the same in return.
 
Without wishing to 'dis' my own gender, predominately female groups can be remarkably unkind and judgemental (polite words for proper bitches). The school gates with the mother mafia can be particularly brutal. The youngsters inside seem to very quickly demarcate into similar groups: girls playing mind games on each other,the boys playing football or the latest card/gizmo craze. Yes, they fall out, but they seem to sort it out with a bit of fight and are then all friends again.
Sweeping generalisation, I know, but seems to hold true in most areas of life - including stable yards.
 
pixiebee said:
no mrvelvet is simply stating that sometimes people unintentially might come across as snooty or self righteous?? they might talk about what they do alot becuase they are pleased but forget to show interest in what others do? no offence to op but just thinking how bitching might start? apart from obvious jealousy ofcourse!
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Some people consider themselves to be 'competition riders' when they go to a local clear round comp, or a 'tack & turnout' class, or tell every-one how they came 7th when the rosettes were to 6th and they scurried round to get into the line-up just after the placed riders. They insist on discussing every class in minute detail, which might also annoy some of the 'non-competitive' liveries.

Not saying you are one of these CR riders, OP.
 
No I am not. I am an affiliated rider jumping every week BSJA. Looking to affiliate BD this year too. Horsey young but progressing nicely.

I dont brag or tell anyone how I got on apart from a good friend on the yard. It is quite frankly no one else business. It just miffs me off how people can bitch and moan in general. They bitch about people in general too, silly stuff like not emptying water in a certain place or not sweeping up every scrap of hay. Silly examples, but relevant in the silly topics of bitching. One poor lass gets picked on a lot :(
 
asterid said:
I have always wondered why yards are so bitchy?

I am on a big livery yard/ riding school. The facilities are second to none, but the liveries are a pain in the deriere! I am the only competition person on the yard, most are hackers or just basic riders, which is all cool as each to their own etc. I try and steer well clear of things, but some people take a dislike to me and are complete cows for no reason at all and when asked, they just say 'I dont like you', and yet others are really encouraging of my competition outings. I dont care but have always wondered the following:

- Are people jelous of others success?
- Are horses so emotive like kids that people feel the need to bitch and moan?
- Is it just that too many females in one place = trouble?
- Is it more prevalant on DIY yards?
- Is there any harmonious place to keep your horse other than your own yard?
- What is it that makes people bitch?

It is a funny old world and I couldn't give a monkeys what some think of me as I enjoy doing my thing and going competing, just curious as to why it happens really and what people are trying to gain?
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1) Lots of people, regardless of where you are, are jealous of others succeeding where they havent or can't. I get this a lot at work - I happen to pick things up quickly and have the 'right' logic to work the job in the best way. So this isnt just to yards, its everywhere sadly

2) Again, horses are a passion and when you get lots of people in one area with a passion be it children (mums picking kids up), dog shows or classes, or at yards,...people are 'protective' of their child/horse/dog and believe it to be better than anyone elses...or try to make out they are

3) Again, at work, I have experienced working in different all female teams, some are perfect and loved every moment, others were AWEFUL, all depends how highly strung and how bitchy/mallicious/jealous each person/female is. Some groups, where they are layed back, just get on with it, do the best they can are brill and work well,....its when you get a few characters together, regardless of gender, that have the need to try and prove themselves to others, regardless of if that means being vindictive to others in the same group - makes them feel better and stronger (usual pack creatures who wouldnt last 5 mins out there on their own, looking for the acceptance of the other sheep)

4) I don't think it matters what type of yard, although can see where you're coming from. People have very different ideas on horse care, and even totally opposites, when viewed by an outsider, both horses are usually very well cared for, happy and healthy,....even though things are done in different ways - but people who cant see past their way, are the ones that then belive the other person to be mistreating or neglecting etc their horse and leads to bitching.

5) I have only been at my yard 1 week so far! But I have been warmly welcomed by everyone I have met. Everyone stops and talks and askes about the new pony that has appeared, stop and talk to it etc. A lovely friendly atmosphere. But,....and I dont want to be 'ageist', they are all adults, no silly little teenage girls who, usually, daddy bought them a pretty pony and their friends have them and they are up-themselves and very bitchy indeed, or can be. I am on a DIY yard btw.

People bitch to be accepted by the people they are bitching to (peer group), out of insecurity about the subject and to try and make themselves feel better. They are petty and should be ignored. One day, they may grow up, get over it and get a life!
 
I really don't know but I think that most yards are! On my yard there are a lot of self professed experts. I think I am currently a victim of this 'bitchiness' on my own yard! Myself and another girl (should say 'lady' actually as we are both in our 40s) have spent the last 2 summers regularly hiring a lorry for our daughters to compete. We often have one or two others along (it's a 5 horse lorry) and always have a great time, getting a bottle of wine and some nibbles for the journey home (if show is a fair distance away) to celebrate or commiserate.

Recently found out that she and another girl have booked said lorry for an upcoming show and not even asked if we want a space. I really don't want to sound like a big-headed c** but can't help but wonder if it could it be something to do with the fact that she and the other girl usually come away with a lowly placing while my daughter often wins and goes champ??? I don't know - they don't show in the same class, so I don't see why it matters. She has a pony and my daughter shows an ex-racehorse. We have helped them loads, my daughter even rode their pony in the ring one day (at their request) when it was having a naughty day and her daughter was too nervous to get on it.

I'm not saying 'oh we're so great' and we never gloat about wins, my daughter's horse can have an off-day and be naughty but we just take the good with the bad and make sure we have a good day out.

Horses just seem to have a habit of bringing out the 'child' in people - and not in a good way!

I just don't understand spiteful bitchy people!!
 
I have found school and work to be much worse than yards.

None of the yards I have been on have been bitchy, yes people gossip about each other and not of us are going to be into the same things. We are a big yard and we have a nice xmas party and everyone comes and gets on well.

We have a real range of people on our yard from those who are lucky enough not to need to work and have everything paid for by their husbands to those who are like me and are on a budget. There are people who hardly ever ride and those who compete at affiliated level and those in between. However just because people's circumstances are different does not mean we can't all get on.

There are a lot of people's actions that I don't understand but as long as they are happy and the horses are treated well then that is fine by me.

As for the lady who gets annoyed at people riding in the school when they don't need to as they are not competiting, I think that is a bit unfair as you don't need to compete you choose to and they might choose to ride in the school too for different reasons such as they like riding in the school in the same way as you like competiting, it almost sounds like you think you should have special priority for riding in the school as you compete. If you give out this impression to the "less able" non competitive riders I am not surprised that they are not more accomodating towards you.

I am a little jealous of the opportunties the rich people who don't need to work have at the yard but I would not swap my pony for any of their horses or want to be them and it does not affect the way I treat these people either as they are decent people who care about their horses.
 
My yard used to be horribly bitchy. I was often at the sharp end of the bitching because I was quiet and never fought back. However, the troublemakers left and moved on and nicer, more mature people took their place. It's now a lovely environment and instead of giggling and pointing at shows, everyone claps and cheers you on! The only ones who seem to whisper and say nasty things are people who are from outside the yard.

I don't understand why the horse world is so mean sometimes.
 
Because thats life! I am sorry to say that in my experience, get a lot of women and their horsey 'babies' together, you will get some bitching. Our yard goes through periods of it and periods without, we have the odd disagreement, but we sort it, move on and get on with it. Nobody bears grudges.

I do agree that competitive riders do tend to think and reason a little bit differently to happy hackers, but it does not make them any better or worse. We've got both on our yard and we all just get on with it. If someone is coming back from a show, or an event in Mini TX's case, everyone crowds around and wants to know all about it. If frillies or a prize is won, there are ooohs and aahs and congratiuations. If its been a bad day there are cuddles and commiserations.

However, I do agree that the colour of the money paid by a competition rider is exactly the same as that paid by a happy hacker. I did find QueenofCadences comments a little bit condescending - all she had to do is ask the other rider to move out of the way, its a simple as that. Their priorities, no matter what they are no more important than yours and as I have worked out you are a younger lady, I would recommend you get over yourself a bit. My daughter events to a reasonable level and has a very talented and quite expensive horse - she needs to school regularly, and often shares the arena with other liveries, who are happy hackers. If she needs to leg yield etc, she just asks them to move aside for a bit. They dont mind in the slightest, and our arena is a 20 x 40 one at that.
 
I'm lucky,the yard I've been on since last June is not bitchy and neither was the previous yard :)

I have been on bitchy yards in the past although to be honest it was just one person who tried to stir things with everyone.
 
SO1 said:
As for the lady who gets annoyed at people riding in the school when they don't need to as they are not competiting, I think that is a bit unfair as you don't need to compete you choose to and they might choose to ride in the school too for different reasons such as they like riding in the school in the same way as you like competiting, it almost sounds like you think you should have special priority for riding in the school as you compete. If you give out this impression to the "less able" non competitive riders I am not surprised that they are not more accomodating towards you.

I am a little jealous of the opportunties the rich people who don't need to work have at the yard but I would not swap my pony for any of their horses or want to be them and it does not affect the way I treat these people either as they are decent people who care about their horses.
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^^^ this. Very nicely put.
I'm on a DIY yard, totally varied people and horses. Personally I'm a happy hacker with big dreams of maybe one day taking my guy to a local show :o I love riding in the school and am currently working hard on schooling both me and big guy to improve my seat, our confidence in each other and to get him using his back end properly. I would consider this a 'purpose' not just riding 'for no reason'.
Anyway, what i meant to say was that there is very little bitching on my yard - people fall over themselves to help each other out and support each other. Its lovely. But this is down to the individuals on the yard, not to do with YO.
 
I have thought about this "bitchy" issue for a while and i think it comes down to horsey people loving their horses wholeheartedly and are defensive about what they do or are seen to do as they want to do the best for them. They can go on the offensive and target people they feel threatened by. I must say the main reason i moved to my yard was because the YO has a No-bitching policy written into the contract, with a 3 strike policy.
 
asterid said:
I have always wondered why yards are so bitchy?

I am on a big livery yard/ riding school. The facilities are second to none, but the liveries are a pain in the deriere! I am the only competition person on the yard, most are hackers or just basic riders, which is all cool as each to their own etc. I try and steer well clear of things, but some people take a dislike to me and are complete cows for no reason at all and when asked, they just say 'I dont like you', and yet others are really encouraging of my competition outings. I dont care but have always wondered the following:

- Are people jelous of others success? Mostly yes
- Are horses so emotive like kids that people feel the need to bitch and moan?
- Is it just that too many females in one place = trouble? Absolutely
- Is it more prevalant on DIY yards?
- Is there any harmonious place to keep your horse other than your own yard?
- What is it that makes people bitch? Not sure why - they think they know better, they are jealous, they are insecure, they have too much time on their hands

It is a funny old world and I couldn't give a monkeys what some think of me as I enjoy doing my thing and going competing, just curious as to why it happens really and what people are trying to gain?
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It constantly amazes me that people cannot just live and let live. We cannot all walk the same path in life. We come from different places/experiences, we have different beliefs/values/ priorities. I find that I tend to keep to myself in the horsey world. i have lots of people that I will say hello to, but do not ever spend enough time with them to be more than a casula friendship, because it is such a bitchy world. Maybe I am just a bit over cautious. Mind you, I do have to say that some people are really lovely in the horse people world.
 
I'm on a bitchy yard. I try to let it go over my head and not get involved. I am pleasant and polite to everyone and am not aware of upsetting anyone, however I have been made aware of two others bitching about me behind my back and what they have said is actually not the way things happened. I don't want to stoop to such levels and therefore continue to be pleasant to everyone, but it is upsetting. My horse time is meant to be the enjoyable part of my day and I'm not going to let these people spoil that, but I do wish everyone would just get on with each other it would make life so much easier!
 
When I was teaching I told my girls, "I don't want to hear any of you being nasty to the other girls...if you do, you'll have another instructor". Being the barn's only male instructor I was a novelty and popular. I didn't entertain that behaviour and they didn't either.

A female amongst males can be a civilizing influence. A male amongst females can cut the bitchy behaviour.

It also helps to have older boarders...women who have succeeded at their challenges and don't need to prove anything to anyone. Of course, riders with experience know there are many ways to ride and to train. An 18 year old just KNOWS her way is the correct way and too often will look down their nose at people with a different opinion. These people usually work in tack stores.
 
Human nature.

I think if you get any group of people thrust together (often that wouldn't choose to socialise in the 'outside' world there will always be those that disagree, get on better with some than others, are jealous of the achievements, lifestyle, or possessions of others.

This place is like one big yard if you ask me. You get the good, the bad and the ugly on here too :) It's one big melting pot.
 
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