Why aren’t lightweight turnouts actually waterproof?!

I have a very old Rambo - the purple one with green straps - which has been washed, reproofed, repaired etc and somehow it's still waterproof! It's a really tough rug as well & the repairs have pretty much just been buckles. Should have bought one in every size 20 years ago & then I'd have been covered throughout all my horse buying antics!
 
Just give it a coat of reproofer , it goes on nicely when the rug is fairly new . Don't wash it first ( unless you need to ) just apply the reproofer ! I know you shouldn't really have to , if it's been sold as ' waterproof ' , but I often used to go over new rugs that proved less than 100% . Just makes them super duper waterproof ! Do it with human ' waterproof ' coats too , which seem to suffer from the same problem ie waterproof - but only if it's not actually raining .
 
My Ruggles one is excellent. I've had cheaper rugs in the past ,.some of them ok,.others not, but the Ruggles one withstands everything.
 
Surbie said:
My Ruggles no-fill is a sieve. I've had it 3 years and it has always leaked. I washed it and doused it in Fabsil Gold. It is still a sieve. I wish I could find one that wasn't - the 40g and 50g rugs my horse has are much better but too hot.
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Mine too, it's a lovely rug but useless in wet weather. I wish I could find a 25g rug because then my mare wouldn't get too hot.
 
catembi said:
I have a very old Rambo - the purple one with green straps - which has been washed, reproofed, repaired etc and somehow it's still waterproof! It's a really tough rug as well & the repairs have pretty much just been buckles. Should have bought one in every size 20 years ago & then I'd have been covered throughout all my horse buying antics!
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They don't make them like that anymore! I have one still going
 
My gallop Trojan xtra no fill (be warned the necks are super annoying) is still waterproof, third year. Nice and cheap 1200D. Doesn’t have a full neck option so rain will drive in at the front.
Just bought a cheap brand Equitack No fill full neck and 50g full neck both sub £50, both 1200D, and honestly I am impressed. No fill stood up to some awful sustained rain a couple weeks back, and the 50 is my new favourite rug . First season but I’m happy so far
 
I'm looking for a no fill as pony is to hot in a 50g when the sun comes out but gets really cold when it rains so I don't need warmth just need to keep him dry. I'd love to get him a wug but they don't make them small enough for him. Is there a wug equivalent for ponies?

The no fill rug he has at the moment is useless, and he ends up just as wet as he would without a rug on. Would putting a cotton summer sheet underneath stop the tent effect if that is what's causing it to leak, or would it just end up wet as well?
Any recommendations for a waterproof rug that comes in 5'3 gratefully received!
 
I was so impressed my (I think) shires no fill hadn't leaked in torrential rain yesterday. Thought I would arrive to a sopping pony! Will double check brand, it was definitely a cheap one!
 
DizzyDoughnut said:
I'm looking for a no fill as pony is to hot in a 50g when the sun comes out but gets really cold when it rains so I don't need warmth just need to keep him dry. I'd love to get him a wug but they don't make them small enough for him. Is there a wug equivalent for ponies?

The no fill rug he has at the moment is useless, and he ends up just as wet as he would without a rug on. Would putting a cotton summer sheet underneath stop the tent effect if that is what's causing it to leak, or would it just end up wet as well?
Any recommendations for a waterproof rug that comes in 5'3 gratefully received!
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I have a pony who takes 4’9
He has a swish too. Really do rate them. It fits him nicely
 
Yes, I think it's the tent theory. You see this with canvas rugs, an unlined canvas is usually showerproof, add a quality lining like wool, and it will be rain proof (as much as you can expect it to be). I love canvas rugs for in between weather, keep the wind and rain off but they really don't roast if the sun comes out, compared to a synthetic. I guess it's a different climate here in Aus though! Ive never been able to get on with unlined synthetics. Canvas tends to stand up to the bitey bitey rough housing the youngsters do too! Although you can't beat a quality synthetic during the winter for comfort for the horse, so much lighter and tend not to slip/rub, and really warm without needing to layer up.
 
I fond the better rugs are the ones that have both the waterproof exterior but also the inner membrane. The waterproof exterior soon becomes ineffective, as does any 'waterproofing' you slap on. Even with some movement, a bit of friction and rain. The inner membranes stay waterproof as long as they are not washed in detergent or actually ripped.

Of the cheap ones, I found Shires will do a season or two and be waterproof. I like the ones that are half fly rug and half waterproof. My others are Rhino and are bulletproof, even years on.
 
The problem I have with the tent theory is I've had some rugs which have let in loads of water from day one and othere that are waterproof.

As far as I understand, it doesn't apply to newer materials for tents either.

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Does touching the tent outer wall from the inside make it leak?

This question about how not to make anything touch the outer wall of the tent implies that doing so lets the outer tent leak water through. I never head this problem with my vango mirage tent durin...
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Mudrugs do a 20g turnout, I have one and really rate it, definitely keeps pony dryer and less moist than her no fills.
www.mudrugs.com

Turnout Rugs with Belly Covers

MudRugs turnout rugs with belly covers. Revolutionary horse rug designs with full belly protection, elasticated poll, reflective shoulders and extended tail darts. Belly wraps allow you to protect more of your horse, maximising comfort and convenience.
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My Shires Typhoon or Tempest and Highlander no fills are years old and still waterproof. They get washed and reproofed once a year using Nikwax Tech Wash and Wash In Direct.
 
This whole thread just makes me feel grateful that I made the decision not to rug years ago.
I have just looked after a friend's rugged pony while they were away over Easter, so have had to make decisions regarding rugs across the extremes of that wonderfully warm weather around the Easter weekend to a huge drop in temperature and conditions over the last few days. What a stressful time! Luckily, she comes back today and I can go back to not caring about the weather in quite so much detail :D
 
I only rug Hermosa. Fin is not rugged, and I don't have to think. That's pretty great. However, Hermosa is a grumpy and unpleasant person to deal with when she's cold and wet (aren't we all), hence the rug.

I also rugged Gypsum for the same reason. She wore Swish rugs for year,s and they never leaked. I am a great fan of the brand, but they were the wrong shape for Hermosa and rubbed her shoulders. This winter, she has alternated between an Amigo Hero 900d rainsheet, and the exact same rug in 50g. Only time one of those leaked was when she put a hole in the 50g, which I repaired, successfully, with a Gore-Tex patch.

Speaking of Gore-Tex - people familiar with how outdoor gear works will be able to explain how waterproof gear works and why some products leak while others don't. But also why some things feel like they are leaking when they are not. It's not quite the 'tent theory.' Many tents are made out of far lighter and thinner materials than jackets and horse rugs, designed to rely on the gap between the inner tent and fly to work. Your tent groundsheet, however, will be much heavier, designed to keep the floor of your tent dry while being squashed into the ground.

Horse rugs have more in common with our own waterproof clothing. If clothing functioned exactly like a tent, no hiker or climber would be able to stay relatively dry in a waterproof jacket because no jacket will sit a couple centimeters away from your body. You can even wear one over only a t-shirt, and it will work just as well.

A quality breathable waterproof product, whether it is a jacket or a horse rug, will have a membrane, generally made out of PTFE, with pores that are too small for water molecules to pass through, but large enough for water vapour, i.e. sweat, or your breath in the case of a tent (this is why they are breathable), to get out. This is important. Rain needs to stay out, but sweat needs to escape. A bin bag will be fully waterproof but not at all breathable, so you, or your horse, will become drenched with sweat if you stand around for ten minutes, much less walk or run anywhere. Being warm-blooded mammals, both us and our horses generate heat. Your pet snake, not so much.

However, getting the size of the holes in the membrane just right so the product performs both operations well is a tricky process, and expensive, which is why the best mountaineering jackets on the market, such as Arc'Teryx, cost an arm and a leg. Nothing is perfectly waterproof and perfectly breathable. Even Arc'Teryx will have to make some compromises. In terms of breathability, your horse's turnout rug does not need to perform at the level of a high end alpine jacket because he's unlikely to be exerting himself for hours in the same way you would when climbing a mountain. Or if he is, you have other problems. I did when I owned a fencewalker, who would quickly become a sweaty mess when walking the fenceline in a rug. I couldn't not rug her in bad weather. It was a dilemma, as turnout rugs are not designed for hours of movement like that. More likely, your horse will be standing or slowly grazing in a downpour all day, so the rug needs to perform well on waterproofness and just be breathable enough to deal with the natural heat and moisture his body generates and some movement.

That waterproofness measured with hydrostatic head. Imagine a column of water over a 1" by 1" section of the fabric. In the case of something rated as having a 10,000mm hydrostatic head, that means your cylinder of water could 10,000mm high (10m) before the fabric would leak. A product with 5000mm hydrostatic head will be able to withstand short, light showers, whereas a thing with 20,000mm will stay waterproof in extreme rain and snow and high winds.

Breathability is affected by the membrane itself as well as the construction of the garment. Some types of membranes are more breathable than others, often at the expense of waterproofness. A jacket designed to protect you from showers while trail running will have a different membrane than one designed to keep you dry while freezing your butt off on a belay ledge in a rainstorm. You probably would not want to run in the latter, though, because you'd sweat like crazy.

Gear companies also twiddle with layers to effect comfort and breathability. In a 3 layer jacket, the membrane is bonded to an inner woven layer and an outer face layer. This makes it heavier (something mountaineers care about) and more expensive, but it is the most durable construction. 2 and 1 layer constructions will be lighter and cheaper but can feel clammy. Same goes for horse rugs. Your horse will generate heat and moisture even if he is standing around and grazing, and the construction of the rug will allow this to escape, or not, to varying degrees. If there are a couple layers between the horse and the outer shell, then the inside will feel less damp and clammy. Chances are that clamminess comes from the horse, not the rain. I have not looked into specific brands, but I suspect that pricey ones like Rambo have a 3L construction.

The last thing to discuss is the DWR coating. This is a chemical coating covering waterproof garments that makes water bead up and roll off. Cheap waterproofs (and probably some horse rugs) won't have any of the membranes discussed above and rely mostly on DWR. The problem with that is it won't withstand sustained heavy downpours in the absence of the PTFE membrane and other fancy tech. You'll get wet. It also wears off over time. Then you will get very wet very quickly. But even the best mountaineering jacket in the world will lose some of its breathability if it becomes saturated, meaning you will feel damp and clammy. The jacket isn't leaking; it's just not letting your sweat out through the membrane as well as it should. The good news is that DWR can be replaced by washing the garment in Nikwax or your reproofer of choice.

The answer then to why some rugs leak and others don't will be related to the construction of the material, the type of membrane (if any), the hydrostatic head, and the breathability.
 
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Caol Ila said:
The answer then to why some rugs leak and others don't will be related to the construction of the material, the type of membrane (if any), the hydrostatic head, and the breathability.
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All true and educational. Still a mystery why some brands leak for some and not other horses though.
 
Slight variation in construction as they come off the line? I had a Mountain Equipment waterproof that soon leaked like a seive but other people swear by them. Maybe some horses generate more heat/sweat than others?

The DWR coating may also wear off quicker or slower depending on how often you use it, how you store it, how often you clean it, how much your horse rolls in mud when he's wearing it, etc. etc. Dirt and mud are the enemy of DWR.
 
My saddler found that it was the bum darts that caused the Ruggles little rug to leak, which it what I suspected, plus also the line of where the bum flap was attached. When held up to strong light you could see the poor stitching. I didnt expect a tiny pony to have sodden hind quarters!
That said, they changed how these were made soon after. Darting is only into the seam where tail flap is now.
Still wouldn't have another as customer service then was dire.
Never had anything else leak like that.
 
Fieldlife said:
All true and educational. Still a mystery why some brands leak for some and not other horses though.
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We're not really comparing exactly the same though. We'd want to compare exactly the same model. A company like Weatherbeeta have a range of differently priced options and the one I have that doesn't leak is older so would be impossible to compare with the comfitec.

Horseware make it slightly easier by having Rambo, Rhino and Amigo but still have different price/quality options within those.
 
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