Why can’t I just do stuff with my horse? Is there a good calmer to help?

Kirstineridesagain

Kirstineridesagain

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I started writing a long story about my Icelandic mare and her many moods. She’s currently in fire breathing dragon mode, which starts when she leaves the herd behind. A few weeks ago she was brilliant - but now she’s not. We tried to go to an arena hire this evening in preparation for a clinic on Saturday, but couldn’t even get up the road to my friend who was waiting with the trailer. I’m not loading a spinning, whinnying mare who’s panicking because she’s leaving her friends behind.

When we load her on Saturday we will be right by the field, but I fear she’ll be a sweaty mess when we arrive and I just want her (and us) to have an enjoyable day. It’s about an hour away and once we get there we’ll have time to walk her around, put her in a stable and hopefully she’ll be okay. But is there a good calmer people recommend that I can get easily before Saturday? I have calming cookies, a calming herb blend with chamomile etc (which she has every day) and she’s on a low dose of Oestress (I will up it tomorrow).

What’s so upsetting is that she’s sound, forward and happy to go normally, but sensitive to changes (she’s just changed back to her old field, same company apart from her foal who’s in horsepital but back tomorrow - they’ve been separated for more than two weeks now). I signed up for this clinic a while ago and the horse box hire is expensive, so we have to give it a go but with the disaster this evening I’m starting to think I have a horse who’s so sensitive that I can’t really plan anything with her. Other people seem to get up to all sorts of fun things - my dream is to do low level endurance - but right now it seems like the best I can hope for are short hacks around the same route in the woods, if that, without her going full drama queen. If I can’t even walk her a few hundred metres then what can I do? I’ve given her so much time too, we’ve really taken things slowly and still are, but now that she’s regressed again I feel that any change is going to set her back.

On Saturday I’m actually thinking of bringing my chilled Highland mare, but not sure she’d be allowed inside the arena as it’s a breed specific event and if they end up calling to each other when we’re there we haven’t solved anything.
 
Have you just weaned her foal two weeks ago? That's a huge change for her, and in combination with spring grass, changing fields etc. I would be expecting my mare to have lots of feelings about life.

It might seem like other people just go and do things but I often make decisions not to hack out or not to go somewhere if my horses aren't in the right headspace. Last week I didn't hack out with a friend because the wind was high and the mare I had planned to take was just not herself for some reason. Possibly in season, possibly had a fright earlier in the day, possibly that the foals in the field next to her were galloping around. I just don't do something if I think I'm setting us up for a bad experience.
 
Unfortunately things happened all at the same time. It wasn’t planned like this but the vet recommended they should be separated when he couldn’t perform the castration in the field (he was a rig and the operation happened today). I had already signed up at that point and she has seemed normal in the field. Sigh. I feel so sorry for her as well. Foal back tomorrow but will recover in the shelter in the field (with a door, so it’s a big stable and in a few days he’ll have his own small paddock there. So he’s separate, but not all on his own.)

When you put it like that I do think recent changes are to blame. So hopefully she’ll go back to being happier to leave the others once everything is settled.
 
maya2008 said:
I too think your issue is the separation from the foal if she wasn’t mentally ready. So causing more generalised separation anxiety as what if they disappear too?
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I didn’t want to separate them but due to him being a rig who’d started to mount the mares the vet recommended separating them. I can’t wait to reunite them. But yes, it does explain her anxiety.
 
Kirstineridesagain said:
I didn’t want to separate them but due to him being a rig who’d started to mount the mares the vet recommended separating them. I can’t wait to reunite them. But yes, it does explain her anxiety.
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That will be a couple of months though won't it, so she's likely to be unsettled for a bit.
 
Have you taken out in the box to any quiet local stuff before? You may just be expecting a bit too much a bit too soon to suddenly go an hour away to a shindig and back again, especially with the issues you've been having with her. If she's not ready for this, you could very well blow her brains and set her back with too big of an ask.

As for why you can't just do stuff, you knew when you got her you were in for a long term project as you said in your post, and I get it, it's frustrating, been there! But she's been through a lot with moving, pregnancy, weaning etc, she needs to be given a bit of grace and brought back into things slowly. Keep at it, take it slowly, focus on the little wins even after the crappy rides, and you'll get there in time, but it needs to be at her pace, not yours.
 
TheMule said:
She most likely has quite a painful udder from having just been weaned, not helped by the fact the spring grass promotes further lactation. The foal coming back is likely to make the situation worse tbh, you really want her dried up completely
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The foal will be next to her but not with her, so he won’t be able to suckle.

As for spring grass, it’s been really slow and she’s eating mostly hay still. But yes, good points.
 
Thank you for your replies, you have confirmed what has been at the back of my mind. I’ve tried to research the effects of weaning and separation but it’s hard to find much information- I asked in one (American) FB group and was told I was too soft and to just get on with it etc.

When I had to separate them I did it with gritted teeth but they have been fine, really - as in eating well, seeming normal in the field etc - but horses are complicated and have feelings they can’t express of course. I’m not planning on suddenly going out lots with her as in shoes etc, this is a one off really. And if she’s very unsettled there we will cut it short. It’s meant to be two days but we’re just doing a few hours.

Once back home we will just start from scratch again with short rides/walks and I’ll notice when she’s more relaxed and able to go out for longer hacks.
 
Is it really in her (or your) best interests to go to this particular event, at this particular point in time?

Given everything going on, would it be fair to say there's a good chance this scenario is not setting you both up to succeed in the long run?

If you try and push through this one now, what's the risk you store or stack up problems for later on that will take even longer to unpick/work through?

I just don't think your horse is going to have any concept of 'it's not very often' or 'it's just for a few hours'. She'll just know that going out was stressful and not want to repeat it in a hurry.

ETA - I absolutely empathise with the frustration and wishing more was possible, sooner!
 
Kirstineridesagain said:
Thank you for your replies, you have confirmed what has been at the back of my mind. I’ve tried to research the effects of weaning and separation but it’s hard to find much information- I asked in one (American) FB group and was told I was too soft and to just get on with it etc.

When I had to separate them I did it with gritted teeth but they have been fine, really - as in eating well, seeming normal in the field etc - but horses are complicated and have feelings they can’t express of course. I’m not planning on suddenly going out lots with her as in shoes etc, this is a one off really. And if she’s very unsettled there we will cut it short. It’s meant to be two days but we’re just doing a few hours.

Once back home we will just start from scratch again with short rides/walks and I’ll notice when she’s more relaxed and able to go out for longer hacks.
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I don't think you're being too soft re weaning. If the colt is mounting mares then weaning makes sense.

What I think is more important than being soft or not soft, is being consistent and providing a consistent situation for the horses so that they can adjust and learn their new norms.

I would be a little less sold on the idea of them being separated but right next to each other with only a few weeks apart. As they are not anywhere near each other now and seem to be coping, I would probably lean towards keeping them totally separate and putting the youngster out in youngstock livery off site. I would worry that them seeing each other so soon but being kept separately could be stressful. Plus you'd be introducing another level of complexity for them to worry about - they were separated, then foal disappeared, then the foal reappeared but is separate... to me, it just feels like it could be a bit confusing and messy for the horses and I'm not sure that's going to improve separation anxiety in the mare.
 
I’ve been wondering that, and I could put the two mares back in the other field (a few hundred metres away). But there is no reason they can’t all be together after he’s recovered and longer term I want them to be all together.
 
Kirstineridesagain said:
I’ve been wondering that, and I could put the two mares back in the other field (a few hundred metres away). But there is no reason they can’t all be together after he’s recovered and longer term I want them to be all together.
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Well after gelding, it will be I think 6-8 weeks that they still need to be separated because they can still be fertile or act like a colt. Worth googling though as I'm just racking my memory for that.

And then, personally, I'd probably want to give them a bit more time before reuniting because I'd be conscious of the chopping and changes and giving the mare proper time to bounce back and get back in to a routine, but my family have had mares and their daughters together previously after they have weaned without any problems at all. But there will be people on here with far more experience, and more direct experience, than me.
 
I am by no means experienced with these things, but when we weaned my BOGOF foal, my mare lost her f** mind. For like two months. She'd forgotten everything I taught her. She'd freak out at everything...I remember her running in tiny circles while I tried to remove a rug....it was miserable. Could barely do anything with her. Threatened to sell her multiple times. Thought, if this horse is just like this, I'm backing, then selling. I don't like flighty, brainless horses. Thankfully for everyone, the baby hormones settled, and then she wasn't 'like this.' Not at all.

Quite the opposite, in fact. For example, on my hack today, a delivery van passed us, then when it was about 10-20m away, its side door flew open and a box launched itself out. All my horse did was stop and stand there like, WTF? I had the same thought. All traffic, including us, remained stationary while the van driver rescued his box, then we calmly got on our with hack. Yeah, glad I didn't sell her.

To go back to the orginal story, the baby was fine. Not bothered at all.

He stayed with his 'aunties' (the livery mare herd who he'd been with from 6 weeks old), and she went with the YO's horses, who were in a different bit of the yard. Eventually they came to share a fenceline, but it took about three months of complete separation before myself, baby's owner, and YO all agreed that wasn't a stupid thing to do.

I guess every mare is different, and mine didn't have much (or any) training or handling before I got her, but I would not have expected to do sh*t with her in that first month or two after weaning. Just getting through the day with basic handling was hard enough.
 
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Caol Ila said:
I am by no means experienced with these things, but when we weaned my BOGOF foal, my mare lost her f** mind. For like two months. She'd forgotten everything I taught her. She'd freak out at everything...I remember her running in tiny circles while I tried to remove a rug....it was miserable. Could barely do anything with her. Threatened to sell her multiple times. Thought, if this horse is just like this, I'm backing, then selling. I don't like flighty, brainless horses. Thankfully for everyone, the baby hormones settled, and then she wasn't 'like this.' Not at all.

Quite the opposite, in fact. For example, on my hack today, a delivery van passed us, then when it was about 10-20m away, its side door flew open and a box launched itself out. All my horse did was stop and stand there like, WTF? I had the same thought. All traffic, including us, remained stationary while the van driver rescued his box, then we calmly got on our with hack. Yeah, glad I didn't sell her.

To go back to the orginal story, the baby was fine. Not bothered at all.

He stayed with his 'aunties' (the livery mare herd who he'd been with from 6 weeks old), and she went with the YO's horses, who were in a different bit of the yard. Eventually they came to share a fenceline, but it took about three months of complete separation before myself, baby's owner, and YO all agreed that wasn't a stupid thing to do.

I guess every mare is different, and mine didn't have much (or any) training or handling before I got her, but I would not have expected to do sh*t with her in that first month or two after weaning. Just getting through the day with basic handling was hard enough.
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Agreed. Weaning a foal is a massive experience for both mare and foal. I sent my mare away for 4 months for weaning and she was still difficult when I brouggt her back. Sore udders are a real possibility and need checking daily. I understand your frustration but would not be taking the mare out.
 
It is a really hard one. With our 2 year old, he was gelded under GA at 8 months too but then on his return home he was out with my old gelding. He could see his mum but neither were bothered - she just needed to know he was home. After a couple of months the herd were put back together and that was it.

However, I think an outing in the midst of that would have been too much - for them and me.

Good luck, it will all settle down.
 
I'm sorry you're feeling a bit disheartened by your mare's current behaviour, but I think you need to take a step back and see things a little more from her point of view.

If I'm not mistaken, you've owned her for a little over a year and she is your first horse (though you now have 4). In that time, she's moved at least once (several times?), had a foal, had times where you had limited access to her and has only just been separated from the foal. So your working relationship is still really very new and she is going through a stressful time. I think I would give the clinic a miss tomorrow to be honest, it sounds like she needs more preparation before outings at this point in time. Can you just go as a spectator, so you still get some benefit from it?

My foal is a little older than yours (he's just turned 1yo) and is also my first foal. For context, I weaned him mid-december by sending his dam away for nearly three months (that is the time it took for her to stop producing milk - she has a secondary career as a Holsteiner cow if needed!). I was able to work straight away with my mare, but the context is very different to yours. I have an 8 years working relationship with her, she is 17yo and I sent her to my RS where she was born, raised and lived for many years. While she was away, I got my colt castrated at home (he had not at that point started acting stallion-like) and he then had to have a period of box rest. I would caution against keeping your lad in enclosed in the shelter if all the other horses can move a distance away from him, especially if they can go out of sight. It's very distressing for them and can lead to dangerous behaviours like attempting to climb the gate. In my case, I always stabled one of the girls next to him and the third (and fourth when my mare returned) could wander in and out if they wanted to, so no one was in forced solitude. When my mare returned, her foal was desperate to see her (still on box rest) though she was in season and in love with my 2yo filly and had little interest in him. Luckily he soon settled thanks to his calm "aunt". In your case, if possible, I would keep your foal and his dam separated for longer now they are already split (with appropriate company for each of course - a youngstock livery for a few months is not a bad shout). It should make life easier for everyone when they do reunite and make sure your mare doesn't start producing even more milk.

I think your mare needs more time, incremental steps increasing her time away from the herd and then practice going on very short "outings" so that they become routine and non-stressful before attempting a clinic an hour away (that's a half day away if you count 2 hours travel and 2 hours at the venue). Also remember that progress isn't linear with horses, so don't take any occasional steps back to heart, they're part of the process. You will get there, but the timing's not right just yet.
 
too much too soon and expecting WAY too much IMO

as everyone else has pointed out she has effectively lost her foal (she doesn't know he is coming back) and all of a sudden is being put under pressure to go on strange transport with no emotional support whilst likely uncomfortable from a not fully dried up udder.

do not go to the clinic, it is not the right time and would be unfair and would be setting her up to fail which just generate MORE stress and erodes her confidence.

yes other people do *just* go out and do stuff but (mostly) there were very carefully made plans at the start, in small chunks, with a support crew, and thus set up the horse to succeed and build confidence......................none of which has happened in this case.
 
Kirstineridesagain said:
Thank you for your replies, you have confirmed what has been at the back of my mind. I’ve tried to research the effects of weaning and separation but it’s hard to find much information- I asked in one (American) FB group and was told I was too soft and to just get on with it etc.

When I had to separate them I did it with gritted teeth but they have been fine, really - as in eating well, seeming normal in the field etc - but horses are complicated and have feelings they can’t express of course. I’m not planning on suddenly going out lots with her as in shoes etc, this is a one off really. And if she’s very unsettled there we will cut it short. It’s meant to be two days but we’re just doing a few hours.

Once back home we will just start from scratch again with short rides/walks and I’ll notice when she’s more relaxed and able to go out for longer hacks.
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I really wouldn't!
You don't want to ruin her for future outings. It doesn't matter how much you have spent prior to the outing, if you don't go, you can consider it money well spent to keep the mare as comfortable and happy as possible and leave open the possibility of future success

I can not imagine why you booked to do this anyway, without the added complication of the foal needing to be gelded. An hour away means that she will be away from her herd for 3 hours, when 10 minutes would be plenty
You need to take things much more slowly and gradually. You should have factored all this in when you bought and imported an in-
foal mare. Put yourself in the mare's shoes(!). She is a sentient being, not a machine.
 
Great advice above about not going to the clinic and care of foal once he's left the vets so I won't repeat it.

Just to say I understand your frustration when everyone else seems to effortlessly be out cracking on but you need to remember that those effortless public outings are the culmination of months or years gradual training in private. Much like a swan, effortlessly gliding over the surface of the water legs paddling away unseen below keeping everything moving! There are no shortcuts to a good steady well trained horse unless you have the means to go out and buy one someone else has already put the hours into. Start slowly and gradually build up as your mare returns to her pre-birth self.
 
Some people also do just throw their horses in at the deep end without prep or consideration and somehow get away with it. With luck or a reasonably even keeled horse, or they don't care and just ride the horse through it.

Not having decent people round you to advise day to day is something of a common theme I'm sorry to say Kirstene!
 
I'd 100% not go tomorrow. It's simply not fair on her and will likely create more problems down the line.

Going forwards, I'd be booking time with an equine behaviourist to help you understand how you can support her better. You can give her all the time in the world but if you aren't reading her subtle cues that she's not sure about this or worried about before they come to 'screaming' level and don't know how to help her through it, it's not really fair to expect her to 'do' anything you might want to do.

There's no shame or blame in needing more help and far better for your mare to invest in your future now - it should also maximise your ability to go and do stuff in the future, when it's more appropiate timing and you are both set up to succeed.

I'd also take a look at Calm Healthy Horses - I'm not sure if there are any contra-indications for mares with foals - but the Alleviate C really helps my gelding deal with the extra potassium in Spring & Autumn grass, which might be playing a factor too.
 
Kirstineridesagain said:
I started writing a long story about my Icelandic mare and her many moods. She’s currently in fire breathing dragon mode, which starts when she leaves the herd behind. A few weeks ago she was brilliant - but now she’s not. We tried to go to an arena hire this evening in preparation for a clinic on Saturday, but couldn’t even get up the road to my friend who was waiting with the trailer. I’m not loading a spinning, whinnying mare who’s panicking because she’s leaving her friends behind.

When we load her on Saturday we will be right by the field, but I fear she’ll be a sweaty mess when we arrive and I just want her (and us) to have an enjoyable day. It’s about an hour away and once we get there we’ll have time to walk her around, put her in a stable and hopefully she’ll be okay. But is there a good calmer people recommend that I can get easily before Saturday? I have calming cookies, a calming herb blend with chamomile etc (which she has every day) and she’s on a low dose of Oestress (I will up it tomorrow).

What’s so upsetting is that she’s sound, forward and happy to go normally, but sensitive to changes (she’s just changed back to her old field, same company apart from her foal who’s in horsepital but back tomorrow - they’ve been separated for more than two weeks now). I signed up for this clinic a while ago and the horse box hire is expensive, so we have to give it a go but with the disaster this evening I’m starting to think I have a horse who’s so sensitive that I can’t really plan anything with her. Other people seem to get up to all sorts of fun things - my dream is to do low level endurance - but right now it seems like the best I can hope for are short hacks around the same route in the woods, if that, without her going full drama queen. If I can’t even walk her a few hundred metres then what can I do? I’ve given her so much time too, we’ve really taken things slowly and still are, but now that she’s regressed again I feel that any change is going to set her back.

On Saturday I’m actually thinking of bringing my chilled Highland mare, but not sure she’d be allowed inside the arena as it’s a breed specific event and if they end up calling to each other when we’re there we haven’t solved anything.
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Do you mean taking the two mares, and leaving the Highland foal behind on its own (Icelandic colt being at the vets)?
Having bred and raised quite a few foals over the decades, I believe that is a very bad plan, and you’d regret it.
Even if you take the other foal with you, it will be unsettling for all of them with all the strange horses about, and you having very limited time to be monitoring and reassuring your trio.
No point repeating all the other advice, but you would be far better foregoing this trip entirely, accept the financial hit as a cost of education, and focus on your little band settling themselves back into a new normal - rather than attempt such a significant ask in the context of everything else that mare is trying to process. Good luck.
 
Kirstineridesagain said:
On Saturday I’m actually thinking of bringing my chilled Highland mare, but not sure she’d be allowed inside the arena as it’s a breed specific event and if they end up calling to each other when we’re there we haven’t solved anything.
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Can you contact the event organisers and have a word with them? Personally I would lean towards cancelling the lorry and getting back whatever money you can, and just going to the event yourself - no horses - to have a nice low pressure day out and chat to other people with Icelandics. You might even find that someone who's attending has a second horse you could work with for the event - IME the Icelandic community (or at least most of it) is very kind and will likely want to help you. I would bet too that there'll be people there who have experienced with their horses exactly what you're describing, and come out the other side of it with time.

I'm no expert but based on my experience of Icelandics - mine and others' - they are actually very sensitive to circumstances, much more so than some of the British natives. However once they're confident and settled they are lovely. Your mare sounds like she's struggling to cope with all the change she's experienced - but she obviously has a fundamentally kind nature so will probably settle with time. Sorry it's all proving so hard at the moment, go easy on yourself and the horses.
 
Titchy Pony said:
I'm sorry you're feeling a bit disheartened by your mare's current behaviour, but I think you need to take a step back and see things a little more from her point of view.

If I'm not mistaken, you've owned her for a little over a year and she is your first horse (though you now have 4). In that time, she's moved at least once (several times?), had a foal, had times where you had limited access to her and has only just been separated from the foal. So your working relationship is still really very new and she is going through a stressful time. I think I would give the clinic a miss tomorrow to be honest, it sounds like she needs more preparation before outings at this point in time. Can you just go as a spectator, so you still get some benefit from it?

My foal is a little older than yours (he's just turned 1yo) and is also my first foal. For context, I weaned him mid-december by sending his dam away for nearly three months (that is the time it took for her to stop producing milk - she has a secondary career as a Holsteiner cow if needed!). I was able to work straight away with my mare, but the context is very different to yours. I have an 8 years working relationship with her, she is 17yo and I sent her to my RS where she was born, raised and lived for many years. While she was away, I got my colt castrated at home (he had not at that point started acting stallion-like) and he then had to have a period of box rest. I would caution against keeping your lad in enclosed in the shelter if all the other horses can move a distance away from him, especially if they can go out of sight. It's very distressing for them and can lead to dangerous behaviours like attempting to climb the gate. In my case, I always stabled one of the girls next to him and the third (and fourth when my mare returned) could wander in and out if they wanted to, so no one was in forced solitude. When my mare returned, her foal was desperate to see her (still on box rest) though she was in season and in love with my 2yo filly and had little interest in him. Luckily he soon settled thanks to his calm "aunt". In your case, if possible, I would keep your foal and his dam separated for longer now they are already split (with appropriate company for each of course - a youngstock livery for a few months is not a bad shout). It should make life easier for everyone when they do reunite and make sure your mare doesn't start producing even more milk.

I think your mare needs more time, incremental steps increasing her time away from the herd and then practice going on very short "outings" so that they become routine and non-stressful before attempting a clinic an hour away (that's a half day away if you count 2 hours travel and 2 hours at the venue). Also remember that progress isn't linear with horses, so don't take any occasional steps back to heart, they're part of the process. You will get there, but the timing's not right just yet.
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Very sensible. Re OP’s situation, if the two weanlings can go in together when the gelded one returns, that would probably keep things calmer for all of them. If the Highland foal is a filly, she’s too young to conceive even in the unlikely event of a freshly operated lad persisting to try it on.
 
Yes,agree with the posters who said waaay too much, waaay too soon.
She is not thinking of herself as your riding horse yet, she is thinking of herself as her foals mother still. Two months after weaning at the least before the poor girl can totally change her mindset,give her a chance!
 
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