Why do horses refuse jumps?

Ample Prosecco

Ample Prosecco

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Just reading Tik Maynard's book and he has come up with 6 reasons... Wondered what others think?

1) Pain
2) Anticipated pain
3) Overfaced (physically or mentally)
4) Rider set the jump up so it was easier not to jump than to jump
5) Distracted
6) Habit (by which I guess he means learned behaviour)

I think 6 can be broken down into many more categories and that there can be more than 1 reason for a refusal or run out but I thought that was an interesting way of looking at it.

He goes on to say a whip can be used to re-connect if the horse is distracted - not as a punishment but as a sort of 'wake up you've got a job to do'. Or as confidence giving in an unsure horse - a message of 'it's fine, come on let's go'. Only ever used as reprimand for reason 6.

Amber's stop XC at Brand Hall was a 5 I think.

I see lots of people blaming their horses for stops but most reasons are down to the rider. Either you should not have asked the horse to jump the refused fence in the first place (1-3). Though that might not be something you know until afterwards when you try and work out what happened. Or you are riding badly (4). With just 5 & 6 being down more to the horse.

What is not on his list is just a dislike of jumping. I have never ridden a horse who seems to just not like it. But there must be some?? Anyone know a horse who just does not want to do it for no clear reason? Amber LOATHES being lunged. Absolutely hates it. Even just in a halter and line with no other gadgets. She pulls the most offended, irritated expressions on the rare occasions I do it, giving me her best 'bitch face' looks. And yet she will happily lunge at liberty so it is not physical. She seems to be offended by being on a line! So horses do have fairly strong opinions about different types of work I think.

Thoughts?
 
I would mostly agree, with the refinement on point 2 that many people don't realize it's their hands not releasing enough causing the pain or their lack of balance (particularly on landing)
And I think that people need to realize that no.6 doesn't just happen because the horse 'can’t be bothered' or 'is naughty/ cheeky', the behavior will be set by one of the other things over multiple occasions to become learnt
 
TheMule said:
I would mostly agree, with the refinement on point 2 that many people don't realize it's their hands not releasing enough causing the pain or their lack of balance (particularly on landing)
And I think that people need to realize that no.6 doesn't just happen because the horse 'can’t be bothered' or 'is naughty/ cheeky', the behavior will be set by one of the other things over multiple occasions to become learnt
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Good points! I agree about 6 - a rider will have taught the horse to refuse at some point. Or something starts as pain and then becomes habit.
 
Kira absolutely does not see the point in jumping.
When I thought I might have sold her, I tried getting her jumping a bit, and she will do it but it's really not her bag. I did a bit of free jumping over some little grids and she's athletic enough to be good at it but really you can tell she doesn't want to. She's OK hopping over ditches and stuff out hacking - she seems to enjoy that but she just doesn't get poles (not even ground poles).

She won't even hop over the electric fence when it blows down in the wind. Compared to Millie, who pops over my 4 foot fences as if they aren't there and for a short while was jumping over the field gate :rolleyes: Millie is a "jumps for fun" horse. She only stopped if I really got things wrong.
 
I had a horse who seemed to forget how to jump if not jumped very regularly.

He was pretty untalented at the best of times, but he had to have a pop every 2/3 days, otherwise he would just grind to a halt in front of the fence. He didn't enjoy jumping at all - there was no discernible reason why in terms of training or health - it just wasn't his thing.

When he jumped, he tried his best, and would try to clear the fence - his natural technique was competent - but he seemed to top out at about 2'9, scope-wise. Never had one quite so untalented, and I can see why he wasn't keen - it was hard for him.
 
Interesting. I think Buzz's stops are mainly 4 and 5. He can definitely get distracted! And a lot of them are down to me not riding properly and I find giving him a bit of a tap really does help to bring him back to me and get him listening. Possibly even 2 when I get left behind and I've accidently caught him in the mouth (which I try really hard not to!)

Where does spooky fences come in to it? Distracted? I had a refusal at a small fence that had hay bales and cow fillers on it, he stopped then as I was moving off to represent he spooked again :rolleyes: :D

When my confidence is up we can fly over anything. I certainly try not to overface him as we are doing 70/80 courses and I only jump bigger when both of us feel confident enough to, then he'll jump amazingly. He is a pony that has just really started discovering jumping with some height and he does enjoy it, he has started pulling me into the jumps, particularly xc!
 
Our pony was a stopper until daughter had a few lessons, she was leaning forward too early before the jump and putting him off balance. She was told to not lean forward or lift her bum off the saddle until the front legs were coming off the floor. She got it immediately and he turned into a fantastic jumper.
So, I'd add Poor Riding.
 
One of mine doesn't like it much - Fergus - he rarely stops though, just jumps in a manner you can tell he finds it a bit stressful. I did a lot of work trying to get him to enjoy it and be more confident (assuming the two were linked) but eventually decided he prefers going sideways and we rarely jump now other than occasionally at TREC / out hacking.

Daemon and Skye rarely stop - they both seem to enjoy it in a way Fergus doesn't, despite the same rider / training. In fact, Dae is never happier than when pointing at a jump - he had a two legged tantrum about being in the field with another horse jumping when he wasn't yesterday!

All have stopped, on occasion, usually when they physically can't make it over the fence, or have failed to understand the question / been overfaced (Skye has stopped literally once, over an xc fence, as Ester will remember!). I consider all of those my failings rather than theirs.
 
Horses can be just super weird about jumping. I ride a Connemara who really seems to love jumping but will just go through the jump and destroy it if he hasn’t jumped in a while, is confused or actually just wants to go somewhere else lol
 
I would say whenever my horse stops it's sort of a 3 maybe? She absolutely loves to jump more than anything in the world she locks on and pelts at anything you put in front of her but this does cause us problems because the only time she stops is when something surprises her at it like a ditch and she hasn't had time to figure out what's going on before she gets there. She would normally clear it second time around though. Maybe category 7 is needs more training and/or a chill pill.
 
What about fear/spookiness. Mine operates on the basis that the unusual is dangerous until proved otherwise. This is not just jumping but also hacking, on the yard, in the field, even a new foodstuff induces much snorting. So although he is generally very genuine and will jump even off not the best approach, occasionally a filler will trigger his danger mode and he won't even go near it. At home/clinics then going slowly bringing it in nearer till he is jumping over works but this is not an option at shows.

Not sure if it is quite the same as overfaced as a strange pole has been known to cause problems whilst a complicated question or bigger jump in an acceptable material is OK.
 
I definitely agree with 3 and 5, I also think lack of training and or balance? my girl struggles to jump at anything other than full pelt at the moment, i really struggle if i ask her to slow down, she will just stop in front of the next jump? Im looking to get some lessons and work on her balance.
 
I owned a horse who didn't really like jumping despite "being bred to jump". She managed the odd log, clear round and a WH course with me but when I sold her back to her breeder who was liveried with Andrew Harris and who was determined to jump her all the professional help did not get her to jump one round of show jumps! Some horses/ponies really do "jump for joy" and only stop if you, the rider, interfere in some way.
 
Mine loves her jumping and RI says she's honest. Running out is sometimes the easier option ( poor riding) but it doesn't occur to her to do that.
So point four applies but the attitude of the horse comes in?
However we don't compete as it would definately be number 5. The atmosphere is for looking around and watching not actually doing.
So that list needs to add in where the refusals happen and over what.
Some horses hate poles but love xc. No different to us I guess, I prefer xc.
 
I was out spectating at an ODE recently and saw a lot of 4's and 5's happening where I think some riders interfere too much in front of a fence instead of allowing the horse to simply jump.
 
Smogul said:
Boredom? I know one horse at a riding school who would refuse if the jump was too low. It was if he considered it beneath his dignity
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That's an interesting one. I wouldn't explain it in such human terms myself, but there must be a reason for this reaction. Do you think he could be trained to jump low jumps?
 
fburton said:
That's an interesting one. I wouldn't explain it in such human terms myself, but there must be a reason for this reaction. Do you think he could be trained to jump low jumps?
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it's an interesting question. I used to know someone who had a horse that would only jump any fence once.
If you wanted to school it over fences at home you had to change the jump each time - slightly higher/wider, different placement of a pole, put a jumper over the top pole... she would jump ANYTHING. But only once. Seemed the total opposite of her spooky stablemate who was suspicious of changes but grew in confidence with repetition.
 
Some will refuse if they don't understand the question. I'd see this as different to being overfaced. Aria is bold when jumping,and will have a go at anything, has only refused in training when she doesn't understand. So for example, she was happily jumping around a full course of 1.10 the other day, then the trainer put the fences down to 65cm, and asked her to jump a one stride bounce on a dog leg. When she approaches a fence you can see her weighing it up, on this occasion she was a bit WTF do I do with that.
 
fburton said:
That's an interesting one. I wouldn't explain it in such human terms myself, but there must be a reason for this reaction. Do you think he could be trained to jump low jumps?
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I don't think anyone ever tried. It was just seen as one of his amusing quirks. He was a very independent minded animal.
 
In my experience, some RS cultures "make" horses have interesting "quirks" by never attempting to train the horses out of some of their minor disobediences. I remember all sorts of daft stories like that about horses at the RS I rode at as a child - but when I came to ride the horses, mostly it was nonsense - if the horses were ridden sensibly and the instructor actually worked on the issue. I've seen similar coaching in RSs more recently too. Certain types of private owner have form for the same.

That's not to say that all instances of horses being "unusual" are down to poor training - you always get the occasional oddball, and life would be dull if all horses were the same. I do think that this sort of "inexplicable" behaviour can usually be explained by a physical or training issue though.
 
Smogul said:
Boredom? I know one horse at a riding school who would refuse if the jump was too low. It was if he considered it beneath his dignity
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Anthropomorphism but I knew a horse that did the same, he was also rather spooky turned out his peripheral vision was poor and he genuinely couldn't see what he was supposed to be jumping when they were small.
 
Orchard14 said:
Anthropomorphism but I knew a horse that did the same, he was also rather spooky turned out his peripheral vision was poor and he genuinely couldn't see what he was supposed to be jumping when they were small.
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No, definitely not a spooky horse. Very confident in all aspects of his work. He also was a bit of a nuisance turned out. If he didn't like the field he was in, he simply jumped into the next one. JFTD-WS - not sure how you train a horse out of doing that!
 
I think all the categories can be expanded. And blended. Maybe not understanding the question is a sub category of being overfaced? Ie RIGHT NOW I don't get it so I am not confident to jump it. Or it could be a combination of not being set up for it well plus distraction. Amber does not like water and will be distracted so by it so it is hard to keep her on a line through water. Which means that if there is something tricky or narrow to jump on the other side of it she won't focus on it till too late and sometimes stop.

Amber does jump small ones but she makes no effort over them. She does seem to think they are beneath her notice.

I have never known a horse who will only jump anything once. That is a bit weird and needs a new category!
 
Ambers Echo said:
I have never known a horse who will only jump anything once. That is a bit weird and needs a new category!
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I think she may have been a one-off, lol! I haven't ever come across another like it. She was a really aloof arab, it was like she thought it was beneath her to repeat herself. Great round a course but hopeless training at home!
 
I have a horse who doesn't like showjumping. From the first time I showed him a pole on the ground as a 3yo he was freaked out by the whole concept. It's because they move I think, which he really doesn't like. Xc meanwhile he jumps most things you point him at without batting an eyelid. I've spent a lot of time training him to showjump, assuming that it was a confidence issue and I would be able to get him over it. He'll generally jump a nice course of 90cm showjumps in training, but he's so inconsistent out competing that there really is no point pursuing it - sometimes he'll go out and jump a lovely round, sometimes he'll refuse to go within 20m of the first fence.

When he doesn't want to go though it's not in any way a surprise. You know a good 10-15 strides out that he's going to stop, there's just nothing that you can do about it. He doesn't get noticeably hyped up, he just comes to a standstill
 
DabDab said:
When he doesn't want to go though it's not in any way a surprise. You know a good 10-15 strides out that he's going to stop,
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Mine is a bit like that except that he will then work himself up and look terrified. If I get to the bottom of a fence he have a go even from a standstill. He's actually worse at home though and doesn't often stop in competitions so I persevere. It does mean that I am keeping him at a lower level than he is capable as currently I do a warm up at about 70cm before the fillers come in and then jump a round with fillers.

Cross country he likes trappy complicated fences in woods so something jumping down into a dip and back out again or an in and out is fine. However he is not keen on open spaces so our downfall tends to be a straightforward fence on its own in open country.
 
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