Why do people buy dogs with potential welfare problems related to extreme conformation and inherited disease?

[skinnydipper]

I saw this a few days ago, coincidentally it also came up on my Facebook feed. Initially I wasn't going to share it but today I thought what the hell, might as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb.

https://www.kendalshepherd.com/2021/03/03/what-to-do-about-brachycephalic-dogs/

 

[blackcob]

The BVA published a new set of BOAS guidelines for vets a few days ago but the whole article is a pretty good resource, the link to the CFSG conformation guidance booklet at the bottom is really interesting.

 

[Odyssey]

A vet posted this..it made a lot of sense..
View attachment 67099

If every potential puppy buyer read and adhered to this, there would be a huge amount of suffering of dogs saved, plus heartbreak and large veterinary bills for owners. You should buy a dog because it has good health and temperament, and you'll be able to give it the care, exercise, mental stimulation and grooming it requires. Too many people buy purely because they like the look of a breed, don't even do their homework, and it's the poor dogs who pay the highest price..

 

[Odyssey]

Ok. Your family are clearly knowledgeable and responsible dog owners. I don't think anyone is remotely discussing people like you - the issue here is that dogs continue to be bred with known issues and unwary or irresponsible people too often buy them and end up with heartbreak and huge bills/insurance claims. This isn't just a load of forum members sniping, it's an issue that is also concerning the entire veterinary profession. I'm only a vet receptionist, but in the last 6 years I've learned enough to know the issues that specific breeds are much more likely to suffer from. We experience (every single day) that heartbreak and ongoing expense.
Some breeds pretty much ALWAYS have breathing issues, english bulldogs for instance. Add in cherry eye, leg issues, skin fold issues, and birthing issues and just WHY are these poor things with their life/welfare limiting issues being bought/bred?

We are a small vet practice but we have plenty, and I mean plenty of dachshunds with spinal issues, pugs and frenchies with eye and breathing issues, cavvies with breathing, brain and heart issues, sharpeis with skin issues, westies with skin issues...I could go on, and I'm not even clinically trained. No vet wants to be treating these things, which are generally long term with poor outcomes. You wouldn't believe the abuse we get as well, from people who accuse us of "Just trying to get money out of them" and failing to find a miracle cure for their dog's inherited issues.
Sorry, rant over, but at the end of the day it's the dogs that suffer most.

Very well said. It must be hard for veterinary staff to see the suffering of these poor dogs, and often be able to do little to alleviate it. I really don't understand why people buy these breeds knowing how bad their health is likely to be, or don't do a few minutes internet research that would be so beneficial.

 

[windand rain]

Just about to purchase a cavalier puppy from an exceptionally good breeder the parents are MRI clear for syrynx heart and eye tested with the pups great grand parents and grandparents still heart clear at 10 -13 years old. Limbs sound in both and good movement. Not too short in the muzzle. Dont think I could ask for more but each puppy could still not be as perfect as its parents so you take a chance on any breed you just mitigate the possible problems

 

[splashgirl45]

Just about to purchase a cavalier puppy from an exceptionally good breeder the parents are MRI clear for syrynx heart and eye tested with the pups great grand parents and grandparents still heart clear at 10 -13 years old. Limbs sound in both and good movement. Not too short in the muzzle. Dont think I could ask for more but each puppy could still not be as perfect as its parents so you take a chance on any breed you just mitigate the possible problems

ooooh, photos please and what colour is he/she

 

[windand rain]

Only 3 weeks old so no photos yet. Not sure which one yet either as haven't met him yet too soon

 

[splashgirl45]

how exciting, my friend had cavaliers but after losing her last one to heart disease she went for a bishpn/poodle who is a lovely dog but whenever we see cavaliers she gets a bit upset as it brings back her memories...

 

[Bellasophia]

https://www.hsvma.org/brachycephalic
The” other resources” list within is very interesting
And here’s some bedtime reading...the stuff of nightmares.
The purebred paradox..
https://hsvma.memberclicks.net/assets/pdfs/All Animals_Purebred Paradox Article.pdf

 

[DressageCob]

As much as it is a fashion to buy certain breeds, it also becomes fashionable to hate certain breeds. People focus on the dogs that can't breathe, but overlook those that are prone to paralysis or at least disc problems like the dachshunds.

There are several breeds I wouldn't buy because of the known health issues. For example, I'd never buy an English bulldog. I know a woman who is breeding her bitch at the moment. This bitch can't be walked because she refuses to move. She pants just walking from her bed to the food bowl. She had to be artificially inseminated and will have to have a c-section. it's just wrong that such a poor example of a dog is passing on its genes.
Unfortunately I do think there is a moral problem with encouraging the breeding of such animals. it's the same with the exotic "bullies" that seem to be getting fashionable. They look like toads.

I love basset hounds but I couldn't justify getting one. I am guilty of getting a "rare" breed, but his mother was imported to deliberately open up the gene pool. And he's not exceptionally rare anyway, so there isn't much inbreeding in general.

There are other breeds which I think have good and bad examples. You see fit, healthy Frenchies for example. You see others that are over exaggerated and can't breathe.

I think the designer cross breed thing is a big worry. I know people say cross breeds are generally healthier, but surely you get the risk of getting the worst of both breeds just as you can get the best. And because anyone and everyone seems to just *need* a litter off their bitch (something to do with the 4 figure price tag for the pups methinks), you have all these litters with no health testing of the parents, no concern to their lineage or what they may carry and also no real thought to the combination. Like the fashion for corgi crosses. They often have the body build of the larger dog, like a GSD, lab, husky, on little stumpy corgi legs. That's just unethical.

 

[scats]

I groom a French bulldog who can barely breathe. It’s extremely distressing and he heaves for every breath. He’s constantly sick as a result and the owners say he is sick several times on every walk.
He’s such a lovely natured dog, but my heart breaks a bit every time I see him.

 

[brighteyes]

Slight resurrection of this but I questioned a neighbour who is hell bent on replacing her bulldog put down to aggression, as to why she choses to perpetuate this deformed breed. She said it's choice. She likes them and that it as her right to have something she likes. I was baffled. I am trying not to reclassify her as uninformed, stupid or cruel. The last one showed aggression to her and their other dog - a hugely overweight Dalmation - yet never her OH due to her self-confessed inadequacy to be firm with it. Her vet apparently said it needed to be PTS. I suggested the dog might actually have been short on patience due to also being short on oxygen and the inability to keep itself cool. She has her name down with a breeder who helpfully showed the last dog to have known aggression in its lines. I said the breeder also needs to question her motives for perpetuating the misery. I was very frank about the disaster that is the British Bulldog. I doubt she will ever speak to me again. She also likes them overweight so I bet that's part of the appeal, also.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Slight resurrection of this but I questioned a neighbour who is hell bent on replacing her bulldog put down to aggression, as to why she choses to perpetuate this deformed breed. She said it's choice. She likes them and that it as her right to have something she likes. I was baffled. I am trying not to reclassify her as uninformed, stupid or cruel. The last one showed aggression to her and their other dog - a hugely overweight Dalmation - yet never her OH due to jer self-confessed inadequacy to be firm with it. Her vet apparently said it needed to be PTS. I suggested the dog might actually have been short on patience due to also being short on oxygen and the inability to keep itself cool. She has her name down with a breeder who helpfully showed the last dog to have known aggression in its lines. I said the breeder also needs to question her motives for perpetuating the misery. I was very frank about the disaster that is the British Bulldog. I doubt she will ever speak to me again. She also likes them overweight so I bet that's part of the appeal, also.

Face. Head. Desk. I know how frustrating it is but these people will not be told. I also don't understand the appeal of having a dog you have to micro manage and can't take anywhere for any real exercise. As a side note: I have never met a nice natured dalmation either.

 

[brighteyes]

Face. Head. Desk. I know how frustrating it is but these people will not be told. I also don't understand the appeal of having a dog you have to micro manage and can't take anywhere for any real exercise. As a side note: I have never met a nice natured dalmation either.

Hers would be lovely were he able to move. It's diabetic I think and has arthritis. It's the size of a whale. The woman has severe breathing problems herself and was very unimpressed when I said her bulldog suffered the exact same breathing discomfort she does except without any let up. Why would you deliberately inflict it on any animal. I also said I was curious about the motivation behind perpetuating the design flaws. Apparently 'you won't stop it'. I replied you don't need to add to it and if everyone woke up to the welfare disaster that they are, they might! She got very cross and marched off! Truth hurts I guess.

 

[Dopeydapple]

Just wondering, what breeds are acceptable to the Know It Alls on HHO? Should everyone stick with wolves?

There isnt a breed that doesnt have it's own issues. Working collies are possibly one of the least interfered with breeds and even they have their own breed specific issues.

It is possible to like a breed that the HHO massive dont agree with and know about the bloodlines and breeding to ensure it's a healthy dog and not bred to extremities.

I know its hard to comprehend for many of you but there are literally hundreds of people who have forgotten more about dogs than you'll ever know but dont spend their time judging on a forum. Perhaps look outside of your bubble.

There are bad examples of every breed. There are puppy farmers producing every breed. There are morons who buy from said breeders.

During my lifetime my family have had dogs from every group and very successfully competed in the ring, working trials, gun dog trials, obedience, field trials, shooting/beating, sheep trials and cattle work.

My nana still holds some sort of record from 1978 for showing and she is the same person that wont sell one of her mutant dogs (chihuahuas) to anyone who works or lives in a flat because she doesnt believe that is in a dogs best interest. She has never followed trends or bred "tea cups". In over 71 years of owning, breeding and showing Chihuahuas there have been the odd one lost, as happens with every breed, but no "mutants" and no health defects that were common. Anything that wasnt top standard, as many aren't when breeding litters, went to pet homes with a no breeding restriction.

I'm pretty sure this post is because my parents own frenchies that I've previously posted pictures of. My mum has had dogs of various breeds her whole life. She isnt ignorant or without a vast knowledge of various breeds as you are inferring with your own ignorant replies.

I could quote you the pedigrees of these dogs and show you those dogs to illustrate how these arent "bred to extremes for morons" dogs but true to type french Bulldogs. The fawn one especially is more of an "old type" and much bigger.

However it is clear that you are more into the fun of throwing mud rather than admitting your own lack of knowledge or being open minded to learning about breeds. Not the HHO dog people way as has been demonstrated for over a decade.

Its hilarous that the self appointed experts (and the one who thinks they are cleverer than everyone else on the board ?) are allowed to like "their" breeds and those reasons are acceptable. Heaven help anyone who veers off piste and happens to like the characteristics and personality of something different.

Clearly those people are air heads who follow fashion (?) and dont know one end of a dog from another. If only they had the great of HHO to put them right...

I think the issue is that breeds that were fit for purpose (mostly) have been distorted to fit a fashionable trend of what the dog now should look like and these changes pretty much always seem to be at the detriment of the dog. People buy them because they don't know any better, they don't care as it looks cute or the KC promotes the new type so KC breeders breed to that type and people buy from them thinking they are making good responsible choices.

 

[FabioandFreddy]

Face. Head. Desk. I know how frustrating it is but these people will not be told. I also don't understand the appeal of having a dog you have to micro manage and can't take anywhere for any real exercise. As a side note: I have never met a nice natured dalmation either.

*Dalmatian* - I had 2, nicest natured dogs ever. Adored people. However a lot of people get them and underestimate the amount of exercise they need so sadly you see a lot of overweight ones around. We lost our last boy in May at the age of 15.

My friend has an English Bulldog - although was rescued, she didn't buy it. She is exactly as described above, struggles to breath and literally throws herself on the floor if she see's the lead coming out to go for a walk!

 

[conniegirl]

I have never met a nice natured dalmation either

I knew a lovely one, but it took a lot of exercise to keep it that way!

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I knew a lovely one, but it took a lot of exercise to keep it that way!

Oh I have no doubt, there are no bad dogs - only owners. Just an observation of the few I have ever come across, I didn't know they needed a lot of exercise so maybe is a common lack of understanding?

 

[conniegirl]

Oh I have no doubt, there are no bad dogs - only owners. Just an observation of the few I have ever come across, I didn't know they needed a lot of exercise so maybe is a common lack of understanding?

I believe they were bred to follow carriages. They have incredible stamina and the one i knew had a very strong instinct to follow horses! My friend used to practice a dressage test and the dog would follow and do the test too

 

[brighteyes]

Just wondering, what breeds are acceptable to the Know It Alls on HHO? Should everyone stick with wolves?

There isnt a breed that doesnt have it's own issues. Working collies are possibly one of the least interfered with breeds and even they have their own breed specific issues.

It is possible to like a breed that the HHO massive dont agree with and know about the bloodlines and breeding to ensure it's a healthy dog and not bred to extremities.

I know its hard to comprehend for many of you but there are literally hundreds of people who have forgotten more about dogs than you'll ever know but dont spend their time judging on a forum. Perhaps look outside of your bubble.

There are bad examples of every breed. There are puppy farmers producing every breed. There are morons who buy from said breeders.

During my lifetime my family have had dogs from every group and very successfully competed in the ring, working trials, gun dog trials, obedience, field trials, shooting/beating, sheep trials and cattle work.

My nana still holds some sort of record from 1978 for showing and she is the same person that wont sell one of her mutant dogs (chihuahuas) to anyone who works or lives in a flat because she doesnt believe that is in a dogs best interest. She has never followed trends or bred "tea cups". In over 71 years of owning, breeding and showing Chihuahuas there have been the odd one lost, as happens with every breed, but no "mutants" and no health defects that were common. Anything that wasnt top standard, as many aren't when breeding litters, went to pet homes with a no breeding restriction.

I'm pretty sure this post is because my parents own frenchies that I've previously posted pictures of. My mum has had dogs of various breeds her whole life. She isnt ignorant or without a vast knowledge of various breeds as you are inferring with your own ignorant replies.

I could quote you the pedigrees of these dogs and show you those dogs to illustrate how these arent "bred to extremes for morons" dogs but true to type french Bulldogs. The fawn one especially is more of an "old type" and much bigger.

However it is clear that you are more into the fun of throwing mud rather than admitting your own lack of knowledge or being open minded to learning about breeds. Not the HHO dog people way as has been demonstrated for over a decade.

Its hilarous that the self appointed experts (and the one who thinks they are cleverer than everyone else on the board ?) are allowed to like "their" breeds and those reasons are acceptable. Heaven help anyone who veers off piste and happens to like the characteristics and personality of something different.

Clearly those people are air heads who follow fashion (?) and dont know one end of a dog from another. If only they had the great of HHO to put them right...

Whoa defensive? I am not referring to the rare few breeders who ignore trends and breed for health and purpose but they are few and far between. I think the OP was on about the fashions and trends and I merely question perpetuating and exaggerating already dysfunctional and health-impaired animals for no benefit to the animal itself. I think you are being a bit disingenuous here...

ETA I didn't know your family history on dogs owned but I defy anyone to justify exaggerated or impedimentary features being perpetuated for fashion.

 

[YorksG]

Oh I have no doubt, there are no bad dogs - only owners. Just an observation of the few I have ever come across, I didn't know they needed a lot of exercise so maybe is a common lack of understanding?

A family member has one who is perfectly nice natured, but is a little odd, she is also deaf, which is common apparently. She's a very vocal dog and chunters a fair bit. She does get and need a lot of exercise.

 

[FabioandFreddy]

Oh I have no doubt, there are no bad dogs - only owners. Just an observation of the few I have ever come across, I didn't know they needed a lot of exercise so maybe is a common lack of understanding?

Sadly 101 Dalmatians done them no favours with people buying them without researching the breed. They need LOTS of exercise, on a par with collies and springers, they never tire!