Why do people carry on when petrified?

LEC said:
I used to be passionate about rugby but gave up because I was only half the player I used to be. I screwed my knee up and after rehabbing it for a year I always had a mental block and a fear it would go again. So rather than be half the player I could be I walked away from a sport I loved and found another sport.
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Well, I wouldn't ride if I were you as I totally screwed my knee falling off a race horse. If you can't play rugby because you worry you'll damage it I'm surprised riding passes as acceptable. Perhaps stamp collecting would be safer...

:D
 
Cortez said:
I'm still fascinated with the pigeon injury scenario.........
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Is this because it is practically impossible to imagine a scenario where a pigeon could do enough damage? I have tried and failed to work out what injuries a pigeon could realistically inflict on you and the best I can come up with is being pecked. Hardly life changing huh? :p

:D
 
Bizarre reasoning? Just because you are scared to ride your horse, it does not also mean you are scared to ride a bike?
 
Because the feeling you get from overcoming your fear is so great that it makes up for being scared in the first place. I think most people try and do things even though they are scared because they probably realise once they are able to do that thing it will be fun and they will enjoy doing it.

I am a nervous rider but normally after I have done something I am scared of doing I can then do if the next time and enjoy it. I have often found that the things I was once scared of doing are now things that I enjoy doing.

For example I was nervous about taking my pony on a sponsored ride as neither of us had been on one before so nervous the first time I was sick before going but then when we went he was fantastic and now I love doing sponsored rides and going fast.

I was scared of doing my first dressage test and so much so I almost felt faint and then once we had done one and I realised it was quite fun and we could do it now we go out and do well in dressage.

With jumping it is nerve racking at first especially moving up to the bigger jumps but then the smaller jumps don't seem as fun as they used to be so want to do more etc.
 
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LEC said:
Bizarre reasoning? Just because you are scared to ride your horse, it does not also mean you are scared to ride a bike?
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Maybe to you. As someone else with a totalled knee I am wary of anything which is going to smash it up again. Including but not limited to skiiing, playing football, falling off horses and lots of other things too. I still enjoy all these things but sometimes I worry about them and I'm certainly more wary than I was before I did it. I don't quiver all over but I am probably not as committed as I was to any of them.
 
I think this depends a lot on who you are and your attitude in general. Some people are very all-or-nothing and for them, the attitude/ emotions I have are totally incomprehensible. I know my sister struggles to see why I keep going, and if we weren't sisters who spent a lot of time talking and sorting stuff out together, she'd find it ridiculous.

It's very hard to explain why I keep going. Horses get to you in a way that no other animal does, and it's a sport I just cannot distance myself from. I am a pretty chilled person generally, but invariably I will end up in floods of tears before I head into the SJ ring, or if my sister goes too fast out cantering, or goes before I'm ready. Yet I love it. I'm not the sort to just give up because I can't be what I once was (and I was initially confident).

On the other side of the coin, my sister finds the fact I keep going really odd I think. Yet she's the child who used to sob silent tears, clutching the pommel, whispering 'tooo fasttttt' as she was lead around the arena when she started. She wouldn't quit despite mum and dad encouraging her to. It took years before she wasn't like this, and now it's something she can't remember... I was a super confident child!
 
Because confidence is a strange thing. Why parents make their scared children continue is a diffrent question all together but as an adult thats their choice. Some horses are great at looking after a nervous rider so I dont think you can say they all suffer for it, mine loves some one to look after be it a child or some one nervous he becomes mr responsible for them.

Lolo I so want to put you on YP he would love you!
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
Thing is if you've never had a horrific accident happen while riding you have no idea what that must be like so no point in being snarky about people. If you've never seen your friends, actual friends, paralysed, deal with traumatic brain injury, or die, hard to imagine what that feels like. Also hard to imagine how it plays on your mind.
.

So maybe some people just need someone who won't look down upon them and just give them some tiny confident words to help them through.

Terri
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What Terri said!
 
I think it depends why you ride. I (like an alarming number of others) was a fearless young rider, used to being sent incorrigible horses/ponies to turn round and jumping 1.30 tracks/open team chasing etc.

BUT when my confidence completely deserted me I came out of it by resetting my objectives. I know the horse would be better served by a braver rider, but he's no grand prix horse, so I don't think t's a loss to the nation. I get as much (if not more) pleasure from a 2 ft 3 course on him than I have from anything I've ever done with horses.

I remember seeing a friend vomit from nerves down her horses shoulder in the start box at a HT, she went on to have a clear round and was ecstatic. (felt sorry for the starter mind you) I think nerves are part and parcel of competing/riding really.

You just have to be clear why you are doing it and ensure you are enjoying it. I may not be enjoying myself in the lead up to the competition, but am generally absolutely made up afterwards, even if I have made myself look a complete numpty.
 
I didn't start riding until my 40s & I've never been a hyper competitive rider, but a few years ago I could get round a 2'6 class quite happily. A few years away from jumping (yes I'm that old) & I had zero confidence. At the beginning of this summer a single cross pole was enough of a challenge. Now I can get round a course (all be it 50-65cm). It may not be pretty to those watching. Confident riders may find my range of facial expressions & utterances amusing/puzzling but to me it's a massive achievement. Just need to remember to breath so I don't run out of oxygen at fence 4.
I do give the ned a break by getting my son to take him round sometimes, just to let him know what it's meant to feel like!
 
God knows there is some at my yard like that, one that freaks out at the slightest thing another who has a lovely boy who does nothing wrong but never rides him just let's every man and his dog on him, horse been at the yard over 1 year and never left the indoor school it's a bleeding right shame for the animal.

Now I lost my confidence on my boy last year after a Nasty accident , I have myself 6 months max to be back on him, hacking him out , jumping and competiting him or he was to be sold as its not fair on the horse to have someone who is scared on there backs, horses are sensitive animals its not fair to put fear I them through your own fears. So folks should be realistic if your still worried on a horse cut your losses buy something else
 
I'm going to be a little different.. I'm scared of hacking by myself.
Company- fine.
Haven't jumped my pony over a show jump for a long time but I am not scared to do so.
Not ridden at a competition on my horse before but I have others and that was fine.
Main reason is my horse ditched me on the road a few months ago because of a puddle. No way was I giving up, but I won't lie, I haven't ventured out very far alone again. Prior to falling off, there were lots of bucks, rears, spins etc. and when there are cars near you I feel it is just too dangerous for the horse and rider.
Have moved yards so will attempt to venture out when I know the area better...
 
Also!
I find for me personally, I am scared of what could happen or if it happens again, I naturally am a bit apprehensive about falling off jumping, and it's more the thought, like what happens if I get hurt again (spent a lovely week in hospital with 3 slipped disks, major concussion and effectively ripping the muscle away from my back)
I would rather fall and get it over with, than be scared of it. Once it's happened I can get up and get on. No more apprehension!
 
I guess I am naturally very competitive. I would not ride if I could not compete as I get pleasure in producing horses and competing. I enjoy constantly testing myself and seeing how far the horse will go. As soon as the horse hits a limit it gets sold especially if under where I want it to be. I have battled through confidence issues but made sure I nipped it in the bud quickly and chucked money at the problem which worked incredibly well. I also practice harder as find having better foundations means I have a much more stable platform to work off if stressed at a competition.

But if I thought for 1 minute I had completely lost my bottle or I was impacting the horse I just would give up. I would rather give up and look back that I did it well.
 
I used to say I wouldn't have a horse if I couldn't compete it. I am completely different now and now pleasure from other stuff just as much. I am still competing, but it is against myself if you like.

I think if you worry about having a negative effect on the horse you wouldn't ride unless you were Carl Hester. Few of us do things as well as we 'could'. I do think you should live with the results of your mistakes though and that you must be realistic that your 'fear' (in my case) is an issue. Although of course a good excuse is alwasy welcome.

I only get annoyed by people who blame the horse for their own failings. Thankfuly I don't really know anyone like this, though I have in the past.
 
Jesstinsel said:
Is this because it is practically impossible to imagine a scenario where a pigeon could do enough damage? I have tried and failed to work out what injuries a pigeon could realistically inflict on you and the best I can come up with is being pecked. Hardly life changing huh? :p

:D
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peck out your eyes? :eek: that could be a potential 'pigeon scenario' ;) :p
 
My dear father used to say "Courage is being frightened - really frightened - and doing it anyway". He was the radar operator in a WW2 bomber, and came back alive. As I get older, I become more anxious about more things, so use his statement, plus my dear mother's advice "Just kick on, girl, KICK ON" to keep on enjoying it all, despite the ocassional fear. I find that come the potential/actual disaster, me and the horse rise above it (so far!) because determination, experience and skill immediately arrive, together with liberal dose of whatever verbal encouragement required to man or beast!
 
Jesstinsel said:
Well, I wouldn't ride if I were you as I totally screwed my knee falling off a race horse. If you can't play rugby because you worry you'll damage it I'm surprised riding passes as acceptable. Perhaps stamp collecting would be safer...

:D
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But when playing rugby, the tackles are the point of the game, and the scrums (sorry, no idea what position Lec played at) so you could potentially have a hard impact, a knee-wrecking impact, from any direction at any moment, and many times, per game. Riding, it should only be a fall that would seriously stress a knee, and then only certain falls. I'm in the same position as Lec, dodgy knee, I've given up skiing (which I love) because of the continual stresses on the knee, but apart from the odd fall I don't see riding as a huge risk to my knee.
I did my knee for the first time many years ago, and then rode (and had some falls) with no problems at all for many years, before having a fall where I was absolutely launched and then landed on my feet in a certain way (interim falls where I landed on my feet were fine) and that did it again.
We aren't talking about phobias (which the pigeon fear is) but about fear of getting on a horse and doing general stuff that should be within that person's capability - going for a canter, jumping a course of jumps. Nobody's said "it's daft to be afraid of jumping a GP track, or a puissance wall, or going round Badminton" - those are extreme levels, and most of us wouldn't have the confidence (securely based on experience!) we'd need to do those without apprehension.
I see fear and phobia as being hugely different. Phobias are, by definition, extreme, and usually illogical. e.g. it's not possible to have shark-phobia because that is a genuine, logical, fear. So, the pigeon-phobia is rather irrelevant. I know of people who are phobic about clowns, buttons (?!?!!?) and lots of other totally random crazy things.
As for beating the fear - yes, but at what cost to the horse's confidence? I've only ever known 1 horse who was totally oblivious to the rider's fear.
 
I always think of myself as a bit of a wimp because I have nerves but then the other day I thought maybe I am actually brave because I managed to override my fears? Before one event I was petrified, like shaking and not able to eat I was so scared. Yet I love turning that feeling into adrenaline. When I come out of the start box I am SO determined, like NOTHING will stop me, i'd rather die then not go clear and then I love it and when I finish i'm like Yesssssssssss!

So I think I scare myself because I will not accept failure. Failure is my fear and it's not an option.

That's just the sort of person I am though, i'm passionate about all areas of my life and tend to be a bit of a drama queen.

Saying that though I'm careful not to force myself to do things in my heart I know i'm not ready for and if I was scared everytime I ride then I wouldn't do it. Everyday riding, yes I might get a flutter of butterflies about jumping a bigger fence than normal in the school or coming up to a massive lorry on the lanes but it's nothing I know I can't handle and I look forward to riding and don't feel scared.

That's what made me think I'm brave the other day. I'm happy to hack on my own and jump fences on my own and ride my horse through a buck or whatever. Stuff like that doesn't bother me and I thought maybe I'm not such a wimp afterall lol. I do get bad competition nerves but that's only because I want to perform well and I never get nervous before a dressage event or clinic or whatever, it's only jumping and that's because i'm pushing myself a bit more.

If I felt nervous and scared at the thought of riding everyday and that I was forcing myself, I wouldn't do it. It's meant to be pleasurable surely???
 
Yes, Firewell, exactly. Fwiw you don't sound like a wimp at all. Like you, certain things give me butterflies, of course, that's natural.
I think Lec was talking about the people who are terrified to do even the basic things - I've seen people shaking from head to foot just being led around an arena. I mean, is that fun for anyone?!
AntxGeorgiax, that's a logical fear too. fwiw on a horse that prats about on the road, I get very worried... for everyone's sakes. Don't want horse killed, don't want to risk a motorist being hurt or worse, or risk my safety. I used to live in an area with impatient drivers (the lane I lived on was a bit of a 'rat run' to the village) and the day I realised I was more relieved getting back in 1 piece after a hack, than after going round a big xc course, was the day I put the place on the market. You being worried in that situation is logical and smart imho... it's much easier to be relaxed on a horse that's sane in traffic.
 
kerilli said:
Yes, Firewell, exactly. Fwiw you don't sound like a wimp at all. Like you, certain things give me butterflies, of course, that's natural.
I think Lec was talking about the people who are terrified to do even the basic things - I've seen people shaking from head to foot just being led around an arena. I mean, is that fun for anyone?!
AntxGeorgiax, that's a logical fear too. fwiw on a horse that prats about on the road, I get very worried... for everyone's sakes. Don't want horse killed, don't want to risk a motorist being hurt or worse, or risk my safety. I used to live in an area with impatient drivers (the lane I lived on was a bit of a 'rat run' to the village) and the day I realised I was more relieved getting back in 1 piece after a hack, than after going round a big xc course, was the day I put the place on the market. You being worried in that situation is logical and smart imho... it's much easier to be relaxed on a horse that's sane in traffic.
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With the people who feel genuinely scared just at the thought of tacking up the horse and getting on maybe it would be the brave thing to admit that perhaps it is not for them and to find a hobby that challenges them but that they can relax and enjoy. I wouldn't go rock climbing, i'm terrified of heights lol, doesn't mean I would force myself to do it just to show that I can. I panic enough just walking over a motorway bridge!

With regards to the roads, they can be dangerous. I always have in the back of my mind that if anything terrible happened and my horse really started to panic i'd just get off and lead him somewhere safe. No point being a hero! I think minimising risk (ie if a lorry comes i'll trot on untill I find a lay by and stand my horse where there is space and he can watch it go by) helps with nerves. That's why I feel safe I think, I try and be sensible :). My horse is good in traffic. My mums horse is not good in traffic so she just does off road hacking where she can relax and enjoy him :).
 
kerilli said:
Yes, Firewell, exactly. Fwiw you don't sound like a wimp at all. Like you, certain things give me butterflies, of course, that's natural.
I think Lec was talking about the people who are terrified to do even the basic things - I've seen people shaking from head to foot just being led around an arena. I mean, is that fun for anyone?!
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The riding school I was at, you'd get some people coming in that thought they'd be fine and then when they got near the horse, they realised how big they actually are. Just spending 5 minutes, letting them pet the horse and taking it step by step can make a huge difference.

Get them on the horse and waiting until they're secure and happy before letting the horse walk a few strides and then stopping. I've seen people come from being terrified walking around - because the gait of the horse is so unnatural to them - to where they've ended up buying their own horse.
One girl had a bad fall and I ended up instructing her and she was nervous to canter so we turned it into a game and within a few weeks, she was grinning and wanting to go faster.

Jumping was mentioned - put me in a grass arena with a 70cm jump and I can't do it - to the point I tried to push myself and ended up with a panic attack. I take it down to 45cm, do a few practice jumps and can then go in an arena and jump a 70cm course. The last time I jumped on grass, pony landed and nosedived. I stayed on but dented both of our confidence. Its something we'll be working on. Why do I continue? Because its what I want to be doing. It's illogical because I've had over a few 70cm XC fences since then happily.

What we need to remember is what is basic to one person isn't basic to another. If after a period of time, its not working and the person is still petrified, then I agree, it's not fun and its not going to be. We all have our difference points at which we'll give up and go a difference route as well.
I don't think I've been to coherent in this but hopefully, everyone will get that I do in part agree with what is said.
 
I think that people in general have actually become MORE frightened than they used to be. I am quite old and remember being picked up and put back on ponies after falling off out hunting - no one even asked if you were OK. No one worried about hats, body protectors were unheard of, and yet people seemed not to think too much about the potential outcomes very much. I am presuming that if you were frightened you simply didn't ride? Is it a modern phenomenon?
 
fidleyspromise, I 100% agree with all that. I am happy to help someone build their confidence up, and I don't look down on anyone who isn't brave around horses (since they are probably far braver than me about other things, such as potholing or public speaking!). If it's initial nerves, they're understandable. What I meant was people who are always totally terrified, who have no confidence at all, and by 'basic' i meant 'getting on and being led at walk around the arena'.
for instance I used to do RDA instructing and we had a few kids who were always terrified. We were told to make them ride - the school had paid, so they had to ride. I thought it made more sense to let the keen kids ride for longer, and the terrified ones do something else. One lad was very tall and skinny and would get off at trot and run in the other direction the moment the pony's leader took their eyes off him! Obv this was dangerous, how he dismounted at trot and landed running in the other direction I have no idea but he did! I hated being told to make him get on when he very obviously didn't enjoy it one bit, it made no sense. I know we're talking on this thread about people who say they do want to ride, even though all outward appearances say otherwise, but to me it's similar... if it's that frightening, then surely something else would be more fun?! And it's not at all fair on the horses.
 
Cortez said:
I think that people in general have actually become MORE frightened than they used to be. I am quite old and remember being picked up and put back on ponies after falling off out hunting - no one even asked if you were OK. No one worried about hats, body protectors were unheard of, and yet people seemed not to think too much about the potential outcomes very much. I am presuming that if you were frightened you simply didn't ride? Is it a modern phenomenon?
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I can't comment on what it was like 20, 30 years ago etc, but I see a change even now, between when I was at an RS 15 years ago and when I first had my horse, and kids who are learning to ride now. The health and safety culture seems to be making them very risk averse, which is a shame because a few risks can lead to awesome fun on a horse :D

Actually I see it in other areas too, not just horses. When I was little, even before I was into horses, you fell over, you got back up and carried on playing (injuries aside!), now they fall over, stay down nd have a cry till someone brings them an icepack :confused:
 
good point Cortez, I hadn't thought of that.
I know of a couple of PC instructors who don't like the effect that body protectors have had on kids who are learning to ride. They're often a bit too big (growing space) and hinder movement, and the kids are aware of them etc so it affects their attitude.
We all fell off all the time as kids and nobody ever made a fuss, you just got back on asap (if you did it fast enough people might not even have noticed...!)
The whole safety thing has somehow convinced many people that certain things (e.g. xc at lower levels) are safe... erm, no, even over small fences things can go very wrong, as we all know. It's bizarre.
 
Cortez, I tend to agree with you on maybe more people being scared now. But back when we all started riding you just knew if you fell you got back on. If you we're injured, you delt with it quietly. You never really have fear a thought. You wanted to ride and these are the pitfalls.

But with the girl I mentioned. She really did want to ride but she was scared. I don't teach riding. I teach horses and now I was having to try and teach her that these green broke babies would do anything for her as long as she was confident. She'd have days when she'd get on and say, I'm not sure I can do this. So I made her just do small walking circles around me. Then I'd say look it, he's 14.2 you don't have long to fall and this surface is so soft you will be fine. You have your helmet you have your back protector and you will be fine. Keep telling yourself you will be fine and you will. As I'm yammering on her circles are getting bigger, she's relaxing, and next I know she's flying around the place. Sometimes scared people don't have anyone that will take 5 mins to just talk to them and settle them down. To most of us that seems pointless and yet it can make a real difference. When your feeling scared or insecure, people saying "buck up or get over it" really isn't helpful. Then of course you have to weigh it all up and find out if you really want to be a rider.

Then at the other end of the spectrum is the people that annoy me which are the excuse makers. A girl here has her own horse. Rides him 5 times a year but happily takes lessons on other horses for the craic. The latest is she can't ride because her back is so messed up. She's fricking 21 and had no major traumas. She made the stupid mistake of saying to me I wouldn't understand. These are all from horse falls. I really couldn't believe she said that to me in fairness. She doesn't really have fear she just likes to pretend she's sooooo messed up from the perils of riding. Those I'd like to smack. And I see more of that than genuinely scared riders. I know my previously scared girl started doing Pilates to make her a better rider and to strengthen up so she feels better when riding.

And lastly I don't think scared is the problem. Pretending your not is a larger issue. If you can deal with the fear head on then you can move past it. Acknowledge it and get help. But as riders we know admitting that puts us in a vulnerable position. One in which people are nasty and look down upon us. Now you're scared of riding and scared of seeking help. Not a great combo! Maybe I'm the only one who'd rather deal with someone who has lost confidence but I find they usually only need some encouragement to become good again. Or at least confident in riding and enjoying riding again.

I admit I hate hacking. I trust my horses implicitly. I do not trust drivers to be paying attention or understand horses. So maybe that makes me a crap rider but I really could care less.

Terri
 
but EI, where are these people who are nasty and look down on others who aren't brave? I've never come across them.
I agree about the bull****ters, the excuse makers, the ones who claim to be really brave but are actually terrified but talk themselves into a corner where they have to get on with it, that is a very dodgy situation for all concerned. :( :( :(
 
This thread has covered so much (interesting) ground, I had to go back and read the OP to remind myself what the core debate was about :p

I agree with Kerilli that there is a fundamental difference between irrational phobias (like the pigeons) and fear which has a rational basis, however out of proportion it may be. For example, I don't like flying, I loathe the take-off and landing and get horribly nervous in turbulence. Now, I know that this fear is not totally rational in that statistics tell me how rare plane crashes are and how much more likely I am to kill myself in my car, particularly as I drive a little faster than I should, yet I have no fear of driving. Nevertheless, it is true that the plane could indeed crash, so I would still classify this as a fundamentally rational fear. Fear of riding would come into this category in my definition, as would the fear of swimming with sharks and potholing, while fear of pigeons, non-poisonous spiders and snakes etc I class as irrational phobias. I don't think comparisons between the two different types of fear are useful in this context, so I'm going to dismiss your pigeon phobia example, LEC :rolleyes:

As far as fear of riding is concerned, I think it is a really difficult one, reason being, it is such a grey area. It is a bit like trying to compare different people's pain thresholds: one man's terror is another man's touch of nerves. Any of us can be nervous (fearful?) in certain situations and fine in others, as answers on this thread have illustrated. Also, as EqulibriumIreland points out, any of us can have periods in our lives where we are far more nervous/fearful than others, and it can be very hard to know, when you are in it, whether this is a passing phase or a permanent change in attitude. So you might keep going for a while, hoping that your fear will become more manageable - as it well might, given the right scenario and input.

I think these days most people would view miniTD as a pretty gutsy rider. However, I remember a period in her life when she was INCREDIBLY nervous: she was very little and had actually given up riding, at her own request for a period. She decided she wanted to start again :rolleyes:, I had sold her pony so insisted she went to a friend's riding school for lessons for a period to prove to me she was serious before we considered buying another. The first lesson, she stood on the mounting block for about 20 minutes trying to summon up the courage to put her foot in the stirrup, she was completely green. It got better, but she remained quite frightened for several months. The only thing I would say is that SHE was always adamant she wanted to do it - I too fail to understand parents who push frightened kids. But even then, doesn't WFP maintain that he was a dreadfully nervous rider as a child, and was pushed by his mother?

As far as adults are concerned, surely anyone who has had a nasty fall at some point has suffered from some nerves in similar situations for a while afterwards? They do ease, but it takes time. Personally, I don't take them as a reason to give up, but as something I have to work through. Also, from time to time I teach a woman who suffers from dreadful nerves jumping: she is a reasonably proficient dressage rider, but show her a jump and she turns into a quivering mess - we've had panic attacks, nausea, the lot. You could (legitimately) ask why she puts herself through it, but it is her decision, and I think it comes down to this feeling she gets when she has conquered her nerves and achieved a good round. When she is having regular lessons, she can control her fear and actually does some eventing around the 80-90cm level, and we spend a lot of time on the mental side of things, devising coping strategies for competitions etc (it is the SJ that bothers her, btw, she is always fine XC) But if she goes for a period without lessons, and therefore without jumping as she is based at a dressage yard, she goes back to square one. I have found teaching her really interesting and rewarding, and have learnt a lot.

I imagine LEC had a specific example in mind when she started this thread, so only she can know the full picture in this instance. As far as the wider debate is concerned, I personally think it is beholden upon those of us who don't (currently) suffer with what we regard as unacceptable levels of fear/nerves to cultivate a bit of empathy with those who do, unless, I suppose, we are absolutely certain we know all the circumstances and it is clear that nothing can ever change. Even then, arguably they are harming no-one, unless the way they ride is causing the horse physical and/or mental discomfort...
 
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