Why do people have such overly-inflated ideas of what their horse is worth?!

Some of it is what people are used to looking at, too. If they have a horse that might be a little bit better than the average run of horses they see, then they figure that must mean it has potential to go much, much higher because they haven't seen really top class horses at the same age/stage so have no means for comparison. Or, possibly, they don't see the difference. ;)

It's really interesting to go to say, a top class auction/breeder/producer and see horses after horse with proper talent. Even then, you see a few special ones and you start to see why people pay what they do for them. Being good really isn't that unusual, being great is so unusual, you know it when you see it. (Not to say that all great horses fulfil their potential - there are too many factors in play - and that some good ones don't optimise what they have to offer, just that the vast majority of horses don't fit into either category.)

I do feel badly, though, because I think horses end up in trouble because they start out insanely priced then end up getting virtually dumped when the owner gets desperate, if their standard of care doesn't diminish in the mean time.

That said, I've seen lots of horses - and even sold a few myself - for FAR more money than I would have considered "reasonable". And many for a lot less than they would have fetched under other circumstances. Just one more thing about horses that's a gamble!

Oh, and on the breed front, often horses are worth a lot more money to do a specific job than they would be in any other sphere. I nearly fell over at the prices paid for QHs but they also have crazy prizes so I guess if you have a good one there's the chance it might actually pay for itself. But most of them presented without the all important papers would not have been worth anything like the money as riding horses or even show horses in other disciplines.
 
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Please don't rule out an anglo for what you want - they make darned good sports horses. Anglos are a breed in their own right.

However, this one does sound horrendously overpriced.
 
EstherYoung said:
Anglos are a breed in their own right.
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I agree with the rest of your post but this is simply incorrect, they are not a breed.

FWIW I am not really an Arab lover but they are generally tough, clever and inject stamina into heavier types. I think the ones that are generally seen on your average livery yard are not really good examples and tend to have sickle hocks and IME are owned by teenage girls (enough said ;) )

OP if you want you can have both of my horses for £7.50, both have competed at Elementary (unaff) and won and been placed each time. Just that one is a neurotic TB and the other is as blind as bat in dodgy light! Apart from that they are a bargain ;)
 
£8K for a 4YO that has done nothing is not a lot of money for a horse that is serious - they should be up in the £100Ks. Those sort of horses do not get advertised, as they don't need to be advertised.

What gets advertised are nice horses from unconnected people, and they are being looked at by people who do not appreciate how much a really really good horse will actually sell for.
 
DD- I see your point (although I'm well aware of the massive amounts horses go for, especially dressage horses (thanks) )

But I am talking about right this second, in this current climate, a month or so away from winter when a lot of people have just started uni etc. IMO, £8K for an unproven 8 year old who may or may not have bags of talent is too much.

I guess it depends on how wealthy you are but me and my family are not (wealthy) and 8K to us is A LOT of money. A lot of savings. That horse would have to be showing MASSIVE potential to part with that sort of cash when I can pick up something lovely, that could also get me to elem/med in the next 3-4 years for £4K in the current climate.
 
I think in some cases especially from breeders like me we have to factor the cost it has taken to get that horse to competing level. (kept mare one year, then her as a foal 5)
I've currently got a nice 5 year old Narramore mare for sale and the price at £6500 is that for a variety of reasons. Firstly she's from a family with a record of being successful. Secondly she's sane, trainable and talented. She's also sound , very attractive and up to weight without being common, very forgiving of anyone nervous and has won her first ODE and HT all be them Un-affilliated. Compared to the majority of horses you see at any average competition she is way better!
This weekend she had a training session with a paralympion who liked her hugely, said she would find advanced movements such as piaffe and passage easy and has kindly added a link to the ad from his website.
There is a vid link in the ad showing her doing a dressage test and I'm afraid I don't think her price is excessive at all, in fact if she stays all winter gets some BD points etc it will go up next spring!
I think there is a vast difference in a horse like her and the anglo arab described above, so yes, the other horse's price is unjustified.
Good horses are still making reasonable prices, you just have to check out a load of rubbish ones first to realise that fact.
 
HH-

Yes, from your description she doesn't sound overpriced- she sounds lovely in fact. If only my budget would stretch that far :sigh:

And yes, breeders, dealers etc that have kept the horse for a year or so, taken it out and got it a competition record do have to factor in these costs I know.

It doesn't sound like this lady's
A breeder or a dealer though tbh and the price of your mare only highlights how overpriced he is IMO
 
Baggybreeches said:
I agree with the rest of your post but this is simply incorrect, they are not a breed.
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Agree with this. HOWEVER, if we're going to be veeery nitpicky (and I mean this about arab x comments generally, not yours BB ;) ) Aren't thoroughbreds all essentially part bred arabs?? And by extension, aren't WBs as well?? Oh and hang on... haven't Andy's got a fair dose of arab blood and some of the natives (welshes) as well?
Personally, whilst I admire the beauty of a good arab, they don't particularly float my boat in terms of what I want to do competitively.
 
Agreed, people know they can overprice horses and they do. I got my boy last summer and hes was £10k which was a reasonable amount to pay considering what he had done, and for someone to be selling a novie arab at £8k with little back up in the way of experience is very far fetched. My boy came with qualifiers I could take him in, £560 BSJA Winnings and various placing at county level showing and jumps like a stag :)

Although Ive seen it alot in different areas, if the market allows people to overprice they will and its just the way the economy works. If you try and sell your horse in a recession, your not going to get the money you want for it.

My SJ mare was sold 2 years ago, and with the amount of winning she had on her card should have sold for a fair bit but it was during a hard market and we had to drop the price on her a hell of alot.

Just the way the world works i guess

:-)
 
Still, there is no excuse for pricing your horse incorrectly. When I came to pricing mine, I spent a good couple of weeks internet surfing for similiar sounding horses and checked with my trainer. He sold easily and I was happy I had priced him correctly. Judging by the comments on here, he would fall into the more expensive category!.

But going back to HH's post, I would consider a well bred 5 year old with that sort of start to be well worth £6500...

and we do keep going off track a bit, the breeding of the horse is largely irrelevant (except you would assume said horse would be pretty). Its £8K for an "older" and unproven horse.
 
£8k is a lot... Fair enough, if it was a young horse that had loads of natural ability but hadn't been out much/affiliated then I'd understand, but what on earth has it being doing for the past 8 years other than one competition?

I had Wibbles (15.2hh, 6yr old, safe hack, gent on the ground, jumps a bit, dressaged (and placed) up to elementary, only 'issue' is that you can't just leave him monday to friday then get on at the weekend and expect him to concentrate) up for sale at £3500, then dropped him down to £3000. We had people who asked if he'd go and do a BE novice at the end of the year, or hunt over big hedges etc etc. So it works either way - both parties have unrealistic prices in their heads!

(he's still here by the way, Mum's having him as a happy hack for the time being :p)
 
You all need to move up North. I have just bought (subject to a 2 stage vetting!) a lovely four year old for less than £3K (although she is small so her market a bit limited). Horses around here are not shifting and there are some serious bargains to be had! Even horses with proven competition records are going cheap - many aren't advertised at a cheap price but after months of trying to sell owners are taking way less than they would have previously.
 
Baggybreeches said:
I agree with the rest of your post but this is simply incorrect, they are not a breed.
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Except in France. :)

The whole "breed" thing with horses is tricky at the best of times and has led to huge problems sorting out the studbooks in Canada and, I believe, to some extent here. All sorts of horse "breeds" don't meet the agricultural restrictions of pedigree and purity to satisfy the legal definition. But they have studbooks etc. and are known are breeds. So hey ho. If you're going to say "studbook = breed" then as above. :)

But I digress . . . (often)

I guess the question is who defines "correctly priced"? I've known relatively green horses, even in this climate, sell for the sort of money most people on here wouldn't begin to consider. Look at the auction prices - they're down, but not out by a long shot. And I've certainly seen horses leave top production/selling/competition yards for more money than I suspect their owners could have got for them from home, even if they haven't actually done more in competition. As dd said, a "special" horse is going to bring a decent price, even now, BECAUSE they're so rare. And it's not just top level, it's at every "sub-level" from happy hacker to JR/YR - some horses are going to stand out but their prices are not "average" by definition. Problem is, everyone thinks they own one of those!

The thing is, those horses DO have something to offer. I think what perhaps people don't always understand is that potential IS obvious. It may not be fulfilled but you know it when you see it. Okay, there have been some unimpressive looking horses that have done well but I suspect they showed flashes of at least goodness all along, even if it was just in their jump or their movement or even their work ethic, and the rest needed improving.

So if you want upper end money for a horse, even just upper end in its group you have to show why it's special. "Because you love it" is not a reason. ;)

What I always wonder is why people don't get an objective opinion. I know professionals are loathe to stick their necks out making pronouncements about things like that but you can always take a horse for a lesson and ask for their honest, off the record thoughts on pricing and how to improve presentation. I think that really IS something people have to take seriously in this market, with more horses for sale at lower prices, how to make their horse not only stand out but appeal.

I produced a mare for sale who was inclined to make faces (she was boss of the herd from 2 and never made good on her threats - because she never had to) to look cheery for her "interviews". She was actual super cute but her natural reaction to strangers, "Who are you and what are you doing in my space?" made her look grumpy. Yes, she was well bred, very easy, attractive and had a decent record but no one wants a grumpy horse unless it's a super star, and even then . . . So we bribed her with strangers bearing polos until she put on her cutest begging face every time she saw someone new. You never have a second chance to make a first impression!
 
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Tell me about it!! not that I'm looking to buy, but I like to window shop!!
There was one for sale near me not long ago - nothing special to look at, an overgrown pony really, but it had "potential" to affiliate, a bad attitude - probably caused by crap riding, less than average conformation, and less schooling than my just backed 4 year old!! and they wanted 6k!!!! what a joke seeing as it has shivers too! Oh dear - I would give them max £500 in this climate - total dreamers.
 
My little cob must be worth a fortune then. He's had 2 dressage outings & come 6th & 4th. Please promise not to tell anybody there were 6 in the first class & 4 in the second!
 
QUOTE=Paint it Lucky;10033298]There was an arab in H&H the other week that was winning at advanced level dressage, think it was PSG level but can't remember. I do think 8k is a lot for a horse that has come 4th in one prelim but maybe he really does have lots of potential who knows, prehaps owner has only been able to get him out once, he may not have had much done with him etc?[/QUOTE]

Khamsin (Imad x Myah by Militaire) with his owner/rider Sue Higgins won both the Advanced Medium and PSG at the PetPlan Festival in N Yorks :D. Khamsin is a lovely example of what very often gets forgotten with arab breeding which is that, as with all breeds, there are lines that are more associated with performance in different areas than others. Here you don't have to look very far back to find a good number of horses associated with performance. Imad was one of the first stallions to be performance tested with NaStA when the Arab Horse Society Premium Performance Scheme was first set up. Looking at the numbers of his progeny out there performing now I think that he will turn out in the fullness of time to be a horse to look back for in a pedigree in his own right. Militaire was similarly very influential, as was his son Mareschal. Khamsin's full sister Maiad was an incredibly successful showhorse both in hand and under saddle - including victory at HOYS - as well as being a favoured ride for her owners/breeders at home. She is now retired I believe but her gallop in the deep mud to take the supreme championship at the Arab Horse Society National Summer Show at Malvern where others were struggling was unforgettable.

These horses were bred by the Whitlows who are noted for producing arabians that are not only beautiful but also correct and capable of high level performance. They are not an accident. If you look at Tamarillo and back to Tarnik, Tam was not an accident either. He again had very experienced breeders of performance horses with arabian blood and carries lines noted for performance. And got his chance...

As with any pure breed, any individual of that breed can be expected to bring certain characteristics to the table. In the case of the arabian, the reason the GSB was reopened to them in the early 1900's (closed again in the 1960's) was the recognition of the stamina and soundness that they could contribute to the TB. However, as with any breed, there are lines associated within it with particular activities.

The French have always been willing to use arabian blood not only in their breed of Anglo-Arabe but also to a very great extent in Selle-Francais , many of whom would also qualify as part-bred arabs. An analysis of the horses in the eventing section of WEG 2010 revealed that nearly 1/3 of the horses had at least one arabian line in their 5 generation pedigree, the only breed with higher prevalence being the TB.

Having said that, I would not be asking £8000 for the horse cited by the OP. Although I have to confess to being extremely bad about finding reasons to keep the ones I breed so I do have some degree of sympathy :rolleyes:
 
Pricing of any commodity (sorry to the "mums" out there, but horses become same as soon as a monetary value is placed upon them) is based on what the market will bear. Having been a breeder, producer, competitor and buyer I can tell you that trying to apply a strict business model to horse sales is nigh on impossible! If you sit down with a calculator and honestly add up the costs to produce any horse to the age of 3,4,8,10 or whatever, then it only the seriously desirable / expensive horse that will ever make money.
 
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