Why do so many people overhorse themselves?

I agree with Criso a bit on this, I think sometimes it can be the misinterpretation of ability which isn't always the riders fault, 'advanced' classes at riding schools are a laugh, I didn't start learning to ride properly until I got my own.

I also, despite having a big flashy warmblood and the ability to handle him now and can do a decent high 60's dressage test, ride a SJ and XC but still class myself as a novice :)
 
I did . . . and it was for several reasons:

1) He was gorgeous . . . went with my head rather than my heart
2) Seller wasn't entirely honest . . . he wasn't suitable as a first horse, he's rather quirky and sharp and he wasn't as well schooled as he was advertised

I think the sticking point, though, is whether or not once a buyer finds they're a tad overhorsed they realize it and what they do about it. In our case, we've sourced loads of help. I'll never part with Kal, but I do realize that he isn't the horse I should have bought. He is a delight to "do" . . . is fine to hack in company 90 percent of the time . . . fine in the school 80 percent of the time and I know I have to have my wits about me and accept that's part of keeping, loving and owning him. He can be an unpredictable arse to hack alone . . . so I'll leave that to Z.

I've had the heart versus head sell conversation with myself and have concluded that I love him too much to part with him. I'm happy to bimble around on him on low key hacks in company and ride him in the school and let someone else take him out for fun . . . he respects me on the ground and I just adore him.

Am I overhorsed? Possibly. Does it matter? Nope.

P
 
I have come back to riding after many years away and currently share. But am thinking more and more of buying my own again. All I want is a nice natured, safe horse to hack and do low level stuff, not a plod, won't be required to jump more than 18 inches, but it has to be healthy, sound and easy to do. I am not at all nervous, just have no desire to ride an "exciting" horse anymore.

How do I find one of these? All the horses I see advertised are for competition, or have issues... I really don't know where to start and it seems such a minefield. There seems to be real demand for these types of horses - I suspect they rarely come up for sale & if they do, go word of mouth.

Oh I forgot, the horse also has to be beautiful.... But I find most are....:)
 
If you take it right down to basic facts there is no such thing as safe. There is quiet, steady, experienced, etc etc but at the end of the day it's an animal with a brain, and a sensitive animal at that, even the plods can not be relied upon 100% day in day out. So safe is very much a sliding scale, some more likely to test a riders ability than others. This I think is often where the problem lies. The rider of days gone by had usually been brought up with horses, knew from a very early age that they always had the potential to be unpredictable. Today's rider often never touches a horse in their life, decides as an adult to take up riding and takes the terms used by experienced horse men/ women literally and expects a horse described as a safe reliable sort to be able to do everything asked of it without any problems whatsoever. Even a seasoned quiet sort, that plodded round a riding school for 10 years can be totally different in a new environment.
 
I think, Ribbons, that you have identified one of the major causes of 'over horsed" difficulties. I've been around horses for 67 years. I currently own a tall, young, very forward going Arab. He is generally very biddable and lovely. When he's not, or I am having a bad day healthwise, I take the level of 'ask' down a peg and we potter or do groundwork or polework. We revise our goals for the day so that I feel, between us, we have progressed in something, even if only in a small way, and enjoyed ourselves.On other 'good' days, we hack up the road and hare round the XC course or do something else that's fun and satisfying/relaxing!. Having a long view of where you want to get with your horse, and how to progress that and accepting it is often a long business, does not seem to be part of a lot of people's way of being with their horses. They want it, and they want it now! Therefore, they lack a degree of patience and/or skill and having bought a horse that looks the part, then find they cannot complete the picture.
 
Mine was a case of seller lying, and also the fact I had a limited budget, so I couldn't afford a "ready-made" horse, it's turned out great though, my riding has improved and my horse is great to ride now, after a lot of hard work
 
It always amazes when people consider themselves very capable riders when they aren't. What ever happened to modesty? I have always sold myself short, to the point where I think I make myself sound completely incapable. Maybe it is because I have never seen myself riding and what I see in my head is a lot worse than real life!
 
People over estimate how much work they are doing with the horse, and feed it too much. They don't realise how much they need to do with the horse, and under work it. I find this especially with horses that have left RS, as they are used to doing rather more than the average rider, and often turn completly wild. Horses that have been professionally schooled are often excellentwith novices as long as kept on top of by a good rider occasionally, and then after a few months with a less capable rider are tearaways. My first pony was the perfect case of this. I found him lovely after a few years, but when he went out on loan to a girl who had a reasonable level of experience, he turned into a bit of a monster as he knew she wasn't good enough to put him back in his place. (this from a pony who my VERY novice mum hacked out)
 
I'm 5foot 2. Used to be ballsy but now a bit timid. No great ambitions beyond low level affiliated show jumping. I just bought a 5 year old quirky 16.3 ex racer. I worked with him last year and fell for him. Was me or bloodstock sales and I love him so over horsed or not, we manage.
 
CLM said:
I have come back to riding after many years away and currently share. But am thinking more and more of buying my own again. All I want is a nice natured, safe horse to hack and do low level stuff, not a plod, won't be required to jump more than 18 inches, but it has to be healthy, sound and easy to do. I am not at all nervous, just have no desire to ride an "exciting" horse anymore.

How do I find one of these? All the horses I see advertised are for competition, or have issues... I really don't know where to start and it seems such a minefield. There seems to be real demand for these types of horses - I suspect they rarely come up for sale & if they do, go word of mouth.

Oh I forgot, the horse also has to be beautiful.... But I find most are....:)
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^^^^^
This

There are fundamentally more people that want good horses than good horses available. And virtually noone produces these sort of horses. They throw loads of stuff at youngsters and sell them at five.

Paula
 
How do you know if you are over horseing yourself though? I know that sounds a bit stupid and obviously if you've ridden ten times at a riding school its too many steps too far to go shopping for, say, an ex-racehorse, but how do you know if, say, one four year old warmblood is too much for you when you rode another four year old warmblood yesterday very happily and the first behaves well at the trial?

I think there is a lot of pressure to make quick decisions when trying horses. Part of the "good ones go by word of mouth" working out well is because the horse and potential buyer have so much more time to gain deeper knowledge about each other and their suitability for each other than what anybody can suss out during a trial of a horse on the open market.

And all the reasons already mentioned. :D
 
That is why I ask for a LVWTB, I know a lot of sellers won't agree to this but the ones I've asked have. And I've kept them and had no problems, apart from health issues that was no ones fault. The one and only horse I did return was from a dealer, and I only tried him twice.
 
I also put it down to people having a much higher opinion of their ability then can be justified...

Maybe I'm just an old gimmer now (43:eek:) but it seems that people don't get the opportunity to experience 'difficult' horses until it is too late - because they have bought it. A minor problem then becomes a major issue because they don't have a clue what to do and can't nip it in the bud.

I have what can be described as a challenging Sec D - nervy, prone to panic and very, very strong. When I tried to find him a loan home (with full disclosure I might add, in fact I emphasized the negatives if anything) it was terrifying how many people really, honestly, truly thought that they were experienced with 20 years riding in some cases or riding since a tot but except for an exceptional one or two, hadn't a clue (but did have a panic) what to do when something went wrong.

Talking to them, it turned out that they may have ridden many horses but hadn't had anything other than nice, easy horses that they had to look after day in, day out. As a result they thought that a getting a nappy horse past a gate or that a horse that flybucked in canter was a confirmed bronco and they now were true horse(wo)men. People/kids these days - God, I sound geriatric - don't seem to have the apprenticeship that I was lucky enough to have as a kid, the chance to have a go on anything, handle stallions and the like, even to get back on after a fall. Parents do so much more for their children now than mine did - because mine were fairly absent as far as the horses were concerned I had to just get on with it but as I also wasn't supervised I did some very stupid things and learnt the hard way!

Maybe that wasn't the right way to do things and I do have the scars plus those old injuries are now starting to cause problem (arthritis, anybody?) but it did give me a very solid grounding in how to do things equine and more importantly, how not to...
 
Flame_ said:
How do you know if you are over horseing yourself though? I know that sounds a bit stupid and obviously if you've ridden ten times at a riding school its too many steps too far to go shopping for, say, an ex-racehorse, but how do you know if, say, one four year old warmblood is too much for you when you rode another four year old warmblood yesterday very happily and the first behaves well at the trial?


And all the reasons already mentioned. :D
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:) The people who are diagnosing severe cases of 'over horsed' are the ones looking on. The over horsed ones in most cases seem oblivious to their condition and just blame the horse or add various thingymebobs to make the horse toe the line and compensate for their inability to ride properly. As all horses are individuals you can't test drive one and assume that the others in that category will behave the same.
 
Spotsrock said:
I'm 5foot 2. Used to be ballsy but now a bit timid. No great ambitions beyond low level affiliated show jumping. I just bought a 5 year old quirky 16.3 ex racer. I worked with him last year and fell for him. Was me or bloodstock sales and I love him so over horsed or not, we manage.
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But you don't (to my mind) sound overhorsed in the context its being used in in this discussion. I thought we were talking more about those people who end up with horses that are way way too much for them and frighten them and are too proud or deluded to admit to their equestrian shortcomings rather than the physical size aspect! Every livery yard I have ever heard of or been on has had at least one of these ladies who has a beautiful horse or pony, wears all the latest equestrian fashions and yet has every excuse in the book as to why they only usually groom it and almost never ride it, when the honest answer is almost always they don't want to ride because for some reason or another they are scared to. I would think far more of them if they just said plain and simple they don't want to ride, they'd rather just "play". Oops sorry forgot to add, more often than not they are also the Yard Expert...
 
I bought my first horse a few days ago - an unbroken 17hh (and growing) imported Hanoverian 3 yo. He is an amazingly nice person, but I am still totally overhorsed. For me it was a combination of really loving the breed, and having more ambition than sense. I could never in a million years have afforded a ready made dressage horse of his breeding and caliber, so I took a gamble. However, he is on training livery at a professional yard where I will have constant supervision to make sure I don't do anything too stupid - if he turns out to be far too much for me then he will be professionally schooled and sold to a more capable rider, and I'll buy something slow, round and hairy.
 
Paulag said:
^^^^^
This

There are fundamentally more people that want good horses than good horses available. And virtually noone produces these sort of horses. They throw loads of stuff at youngsters and sell them at five.

Paula
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The economics of producing horses until they are genuinely established as sensible schoolmaster types mean they will be beyond the budget of most buyers,so dealers and producers will not target this market, producing a competition type to sell to a more experienced home is easier, faster turnover, more potential profit.

Many novices or first time buyers are expecting the perfect horse, it must be sound, pretty much bombproof, not too old or young, yet they often set a silly budget of £2k, a really good horse will sell for double that and so it should if consideration is given to how much it costs to produce correctly.
If all facts are considered a well produced 7 year old in the same home from backing being produced for the market as an uncomplicated allrounder should be worth well in excess of £8k but noone would pay that. Most would rather buy a cheap horse with no real proven history and risk it all going wrong, it may not if they are lucky but it is often more due to luck than judgement.
 
TrasaM said:
:) The people who are diagnosing severe cases of 'over horsed' are the ones looking on.
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But quite often they are just enjoying judging the other rider. I had all the 'overhorsed' nonsense when I got my first horse - I was a wee, fairly novice teenager and horse was a fit 16hh WB jumping BSJA.. I have had so many comments, both with him and with subsequent others I'm paid to compete, but I'm happy and confident, horses are happy and confident so I don't actually care what anyone else thinks.

Yes, some people undoubtedly do overhorse themselves, but a lot of the time I've witnessed supposedly overhorsed people I've not seen a problem, apart from those doing the 'judging' :)
 
Over horsing to me is having a horse which regularly scares you. You cannot improve it because it is beyond your capabilities and the big one a more experienced rider is able to control it where you cannot
 
None of the cases I am referring to are anything to do with relative size or horse to rider but where the horse is in some way being negatively effected by how it is being ridden.
 
Ha ha PennyJ, you are so right. They know the right way to do everything, just can't actually do it themselves. These experts are not confined to the yard. Just watch someone at a show who is having trouble loading a horse. They are surrounded by experts, suggesting bucket of food, lunge lines, lunge whip, trot him at the ramp etc until horse is thoroughly upset and getting dangerous and suddenly they all disappear.
 
My idea of safe is different to others.....I learn't to ride on racers so anything that does not buck, rear, spin or tank off is deemed safe. Jig jogging is annoying but normal, walking off just after I'm legged up doesn't phase me.

I have an ex-racer, and maybe I am over horsed....but not in the way you might think. I can hack him in all but the noisiest scary traffic, gallop him in open fields etc. and we have achieved this and so much more in only five months of him being out of training. However; in a school neither of us have a clue so I'm employing the services of a knowledgeable trainer and may be sending him away to a local yard to be retrained professionally with me there as part of the process. That way we can both learn how it is done properly and set a good foundation for Fred's conventional training.

Ideally I should have spent more money on a schoolmaster and been able to go out doing local shows and clinics, but I rode Fred whilst I worked in his racing yard, I fell in love with him and that bond is what keeps me going when he is having a funny five minutes or taking a little longer to adjust to some parts of our new, slower paced life.

Without me he would have been raced until he broke, or sold on to someone who might not be able to handle him or have his best interests at heart. Atleast I know he will try his heart out for me and I for him, and to hell with it if were on the wrong diagonal :D
 
From what I have witnessed, it has been someone who buys a horse type of their dreams that totally doesn't suit their ability, size, experience and lifestyle.

For example, a happy hacker buying an TB ex-eventer, hunter type, who wants to walk everywhere for fear of it taking off, when a Thelwell, kick along type would have been much more suitable. When advised a Thelwell type would ideally suit the reply was they were small and had no presence, TB's being so much more handsome ... what can you say?
 
littlelegs said:
Different ideas on 'safe' wouldn't be an issue though if people stopped overestimating their ability to buy without experienced help & advice. My 14.2 is safe by anyone's standards, but if some numpty adult got on & started socking her mouth or kicking she would dump them. And has. I'd also class other horses as safe that most would deem nutters.
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Yep, to me, a safe horse is one with a keen sense of self-preservation and makes a good shape over a fence. A spooky horse is a safe horse 'cause he's paying attention to his surroundings and looking where he's going!
 
Hi,

Typically I think that to many riding is a status thing and to use an analogy - rather than having a reliable small car they'd rather have a super sized 4x4 with extra wide wheels (that they just can't park) - to keep up with the Joneses.

Personally I'm very happy with my wee little cob type and have no ambition for a WB hunter type - not because I can't ride one but because I'm very happy with my nippy wee fella - besides he's cheaper to run ;)
 
Typical of the horse world instead of support and encouragement all people get is looked down upon.. If people were less judgemental then maybe people would be honest about their abilities.. I am under horses but I love my boy so am happy. Those who are over horsed are at times delusional idiots but some times they just don't want the normal sneering look from supposed "expert", what an odd question, people are all individuals and make mistakes. Nothing is queerer than folk that's the simple answer!
 
Theres a livery at my yard that I would say is over horsed. She rides twice a week (both hourly lessons). She barely knows how to tack up and won't get on until her ri has ridden him.
Apparently her husband is very wealthy and brought her a horse because all her friends had horses. Its such a shame as the horse is stunning with gorgeous paces.
I sometimes think I've overhorsed myself with 1 of my tbs, mainly when hes being an idiot, but then I remember I can handle him and think about how far we've come in 18 months.
 
I've found a bit of my situation in every post on this thread!
I bought my boy after having only recently returned to riding after 30years off. He is younger than I wanted and more flashy than I wanted and hadn't been out and about much, but I fell for him and when I tried him he was just the most wonderful responsive ride, he felt perfect, was good on the road and was a dope on a rope to handle. All went well for a couple of months, had a lesson on him every week, until he had a scare and i fell off (broken bones) and his head got completely cabbaged, he turned into a loon that even my instructor struggled with.
So he has been on schooling livery for the past few months and I have recently started riding him again, but he's not the same horse as the one I bought and is currently testing me every time I ride. I have a couple of lessons a week off the YO and he goes fine, but when i ride on my own he is always a s*d and tests me and pushes me by being really sharp and spooky and ignorant of me. Sometimes I get off thinking we've made progress (or at least have equalled our last good ride) and had a lovely ride and other times he tests me from start to finish occasionally scaring me and I end the session thinking I really wouldn't be bothered if I never had to ride him again!
So we are a work in progress but I know if I went to try him now I wouldn't buy him. Yes I have ended up overhorsed butI am determined to keep going and show him that he can't mess with me. Quite how it will work out and whether I will end up selling him, I don't know, but he can be so sweet and lovely it would be heartbreaking.
 
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