Why do so many people overhorse themselves?

rhino said:
Hunting 5 times a week? :confused: What?

Some people seem to buy the horse they'd like to be able to ride, which isn't necessarily one they can ride now. I don't think everyone has the same definition of 'overhorsed' though; it has nothing to do with the size and breed of the horse, just that they are 'too much' for the rider's capabilities. I always find it amusing when anyone looking for a first horse on here is recommended to 'buy a cob', because of course all cobs are slow and ploddy :D The ones who are slow and ploddy I wouldn't even class as ideal for a novice, they can teach you some very bad habits indeed! Many are as far from slow and ploddy as you can get :D

I do find it a shame that true schoolmasters are vastly underrated, the confidence and experience such a beastie can give is amazing! :)
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Agree ^^^^
I have a very flashy WBxShire and an ex point to point TB who are both immensely talented but also fantastic to "plod" around the block once or twice a week.
MY TB often has extensive periods of being turned away and remains the same lovely chap when it comes to riding him again.
I would choose my two over some of the cobs I have experienced that's for sure.
You can't base this on breed as all breeds can prove to you that you have overhorsed yourself.
 
I am not sure that all of these riders are overconfident in their abilities I think sometimes people who are inexperianced have never come across more challenging horses and simply don't realise how difficult it can be also first time ownership,is a big step so it's unsurprising that there are lots of hiccups .
Tiga71 post shows how some turn over horsing to their advantage and gain skills and experiance that will stand them in good stead for ever.
I was over horsed as a 15/16 yo it was the start of a journey of training and taking horses seriously that has continued my whole life although that horse had to go ( living permantly on a pro yard did not improve his behaviour so my parents on advice passed him on. ).
 
HazyXmas said:
Gosh Wagtail, i find this completely shocking! How many liveries do you have? Are you seriously saying that none of the horse's are ridden outside a school? Do they compete?

Where abouts are you? My 15 yr old daughter hacks out daily on her own or in company on any of our three. Maybe i could make some money hiring her out as a nanny to over-horsed, middle aged ladies on expensive warmbloods :-)
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I have five livery horses and four owners. The last time anyone hacked out was with me on my TB who had kissing spines. He's now out of action, as is my mare, and I lost my really quiet boy a couple of years ago to colic. No one seems that bothered, but I do miss hacking. Yes, they do go out and compete.
 
I think sometimes people buy a horse based on their experiences of it in it's own environment where it is comfortable, well behaved, probably well schooled, fall in love with it, take it home and then the fun begins... at least for the horse! A lot of people underestimate how long it takes for a horse to adapt to a new owner and environment and some people just aren't willing to persevere. In that period, confidence is knocked and it's very difficult to get back!
 
Are we all being overly polite and missing the fact that some people are just stupid?! Or maybe wanting to be contenders for Darwin Awards!
 
TigerTail said:
Are we all being overly polite and missing the fact that some people are just stupid?! Or maybe wanting to be contenders for Darwin Awards!
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Haha, with hindsight, there was def a bit of stupidity on my side when I overhorsed myself a few years back.

Although I viewed twice, I didn't take an instructor, bought from a dealer so had no history, was a very young horse, they lied about a skin condition he had and there was a question mark on the vetting. I was too excited by how pretty he was and should have taken more time to think before handing over my cash. He wasn't right for me and was sold on to a more experienced home.

I was much more careful after that, and was lucky enough to find a fabulous confidence giver and now have a second which also seems to working out well, so lesson learned (I hope!).
 
I think it could be people coming to horses later on in life so they haven't grown up through a variety of naughty ponies and learnt how to handle the small problems, to know when the horse is nervous or taking the mick. Small issues then escalate especially if the horse is young or takes advantage of the novice rider. There seems to be some sort of snobbery to adults riding ponies at times especially in certain areas and I'm sure that pushes some adults out of their depth as they feel the need to buy a bigger speedier mount.

Then the horses get passed around different homes. There is also more selling to unknown buyers through the Internet etc whereas in imagine in the olden days it would be local paper, riding club or word of mouth so horses and riders would end up better matched as they would both be known in the area.

I don't think you can blame parelli or other trainers for cashing in on this niche.

There are also more instructors with less experience about nowadays IMO and its difficult to find someone willing to help with a challenging horse (easier money yelling at kids to kick on their ponies!). Just what I've found...took three years and a broken leg to finally find someone who could teach me to actually ride a horse properly, not just kick round endless circles! Someone who actually looked at what was happening and could read the horse as well as the rider.
 
I think in the cases of people coming out of riding schools it's a lot to do with the things riding schools aren't allowed to do anymore because of the risks. I was shocked to hear from my daughter's riding instructor that they aren't allowed to ride bareback or in a headcollar, they aren't allowed to do exercises like round the world in anything other than halt, and they aren't allowed to jump without stirrups.All of which I had to do before my instructor would let me go out hacking.

Obviously this is only part of the issues, along with too much sugary feed, not enough exercise etc, but if these riders were confident enough in their seats to sit back and relax then maybe they'd get different results from these new horses sometimes?

Like someone else said, there really aren't that many good safe horses out there either, and there's a glut of people thinking they know enough to train horses when they really shouldn't be. Luckily for me I own a 99.9% bombproof well schooled gentleman of a coblet who really is anyone's safe ride (as long as you don't meet a horse and carriage!) But on a livery yard of 30ish horses he's one of only two that are like that, and the other one is an elderly TB ex polo pony. I'd never sell my boy and I think most people who have horses like him won't sell either, and certainly not to someone who doesn't seem to know one end of a horse from the other!

Having said all this though I've no idea what the solution is! :o
 
havent read all of this thread but i certainly didnt think i was better than i am.. i have had horses for a long time, had a youngster who i backed myself and competed successfully at riding club level so am competant. after losing my youngster when she was 24, i looked for a horse for happy hacking and low level competing. i bought a mare who seemed sensible and was 11 years old...after about 6 months, when she was very fit, i realised she was scaring me and toyed with the idea of selling but was then very fond of her and had always had my horses for life ...........so........ i still have her and she is now 21 and i still have a few "white knuckle" rides....no matter how careful you are when buying a horse its a bit of a lottery..
 
Recipie for becoming a better rider and not being Overhorsed.

1) be broke. Able to take lessons and also be that person people need to come and ride their horse when needed. You don't get this way by telling everyone how good you are. You prove it. I once bugged an International jumper rider daily until he finally just gave me a chance. Had the skills to back up my pleading though. I had this job in addition to my morning job of galloping.

2) be broke. Since I was never gonna get a chance to be the hunter/jumper rider I was wanting to be due to lack of funds. I went to the racetrack(America). At first as a hotwalker, then as a groom. This led me to a position on the farm of the leading TB trainer in the country. Here I spent 3 years not only learning to gallop but how to properly start youngsters and how to have a real seat to cope with anything. The guy who taught me all this while having to oversee 120 of the best bred horses in the world was the best horseman I have ever been around. The second I got cocky he gave me the horses that took me down a peg or two. Gave me confidence but yet let me know there is always room to improve. Something I still believe to this day. Ask me if I'm a good rider and I will tell you I'm not. I have strengths but I have my weaknesses. Things are so much easier when you admit that.

Finally, I made a good living with horses because that was my desire. I couldn't just pretend and ignore my shortcomings. Had to make them better. So many horses that taught me so well. Sense of humor always needed.

Had my parents bought me that pony all those years ago things probably would have been a lot different. Being unable to purchase and care for a horse due to lack of funds gave me better skills and a heck of a lot more insight, courage, and determination on the back of a horse.

So to any of you who feel bad because you just don't have the money, do what you can. Not suggesting you make it a career but do what you can to ride as many as possible. One day you'll be thankful.

Terri
 
splashgirl45 said:
havent read all of this thread but i certainly didnt think i was better than i am.. i have had horses for a long time, had a youngster who i backed myself and competed successfully at riding club level so am competant. after losing my youngster when she was 24, i looked for a horse for happy hacking and low level competing. i bought a mare who seemed sensible and was 11 years old...after about 6 months, when she was very fit, i realised she was scaring me and toyed with the idea of selling but was then very fond of her and had always had my horses for life ...........so........ i still have her and she is now 21 and i still have a few "white knuckle" rides....no matter how careful you are when buying a horse its a bit of a lottery..
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Couldn't agree more. There is a certain type of person who likes to think that bad things only happen to stupid and bad people. This is often about their own insecurities as it is a comfortable worldview because bad things can't happen to them because they are not stupid or bad. Sadly anyone can have bad luck - you can mitigate it with good sense, but never entirely. There are more bad horses than riders able to manage them so someone has to end up with them.
 
Paulag said:
Couldn't agree more. There is a certain type of person who likes to think that bad things only happen to stupid and bad people. This is often about their own insecurities as it is a comfortable worldview because bad things can't happen to them because they are not stupid or bad. Sadly anyone can have bad luck - you can mitigate it with good sense, but never entirely. There are more bad horses than riders able to manage them so someone has to end up with them.
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Well said both
 
Today I was thinking about the difference the size and power of the horse make. I've been doing a bit of schooling on a young, unfit 14hh Welsh Section D and today, she was a bit uptight and spooky because of the wind. I was enjoying pushing her through her antics and laughing about it. Then afterwards as I drove to my barn to ride my horse, I reflected that when my 16.1 athletic powerhouse of a draft-cross has a spooky, uptight day (luckily, not often), it's not funny.

The Welshie's owner is pretty green herself, but can handle her little mare. It's a good horse for her. While I will happily put almost anyone (minus one now ex-boyfriend) on my horse under supervision, as she is a solid reliable schoolmaster 95% of the time, it's that 5% you have to watch out for. If I sold her to a novice tomorrow, that 5% where she can be a bit hot and silly could easily increase, if they got so freaked out they couldn't handle it. Hell, I've had the horse for 14 years and I find her hot days a bit scary. But I at least know how to manage her and ride through it, even though I'm not having any fun. If a novice buys something powerful and athletic, even if it's very well trained, the bad days are going to be really bad.
 
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Caol Ila said:
Today I was thinking about the difference the size and power of the horse make. I've been doing a bit of schooling on a young, unfit 14hh Welsh Section D and today, she was a bit uptight and spooky because of the wind. I was enjoying pushing her through her antics and laughing about it. Then afterwards as I drove to my barn to ride my horse, I reflected that when my 16.1 athletic powerhouse of a draft-cross has a spooky, uptight day (luckily, not often), it's not funny.
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Totally agree. Also having a ball on my c x d. She can be a wee monster but I never feel even slightly worried and I enjoy it.
 
Because some people genuinly dont have a clue how novice they are!

An aquantance has decided she wants a horse, now shes a big tall girl so will need a weight carrier, fair enough. But after having 5, yes 5, lessons at one of the dodgiest riding schools in the area and been allowed out on a hack she now thinks she has the required skill to have her own. She came to see my 14.2 dope on a rope type and was nervous when he moved in to her space as he shifted to have a look at some thing, shes never fallen off and wants a horse that she wont fall off of (!) and I got 101 questions about falling off. She also asks my very un horsey mum if thats canter as she watches me and a friend ride but only after I say do a walk to canter.

I also get a phone call about asking how much is feed, fair enough but theres no prospective horse yet or even been a chat about it. My well it completly depends what you get awnser didnt go down well so it went quiet for a few days.

Then I get another phone call asking what horses can live out (she doesnt want to have to get out of bed in the morning) and there is mention of a 17hh fresian! Then she tells me she has seen this fresian that she wants so she needs to work out costs, at which point she gets upset when I say that this wont be a suitable horse and that she would be better looking for a draught cross or cob type and she finishes the conversation very quick.

Thankfully I havnt heard from her since so fingers crossed she might have taken the suggestion and looked in to more lessons. Best bit is that she and her mother expect some one to loan her a horse....
 
Cortez said:
Just curious; how do so many people get themselves into this position - are they deluding themselves, taken advantage of or just innocent?
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Girl I know has the most fab horse, young but has a super jump, will hack out, ...... but he's too young for her, she needs something with milage up, but because her friends were getting horses similiar to him, she bought him, now trying to off load him, for less than she paid for him, as she just cant manage him. her friend can sit up and do whatever she likes with him, just goes to show, the rider does matter!!!!
 
I did by accident - I bought a 2yr old to bring on and have as a riding horse. I was well used to backing and youngsters but madam was a total nightmare as she had to be backed late - 3 professional riders down (literally on the floor) and a few years down the line and we're getting there :)

I met a lady the other day who is 5ft3" and wanted a certain 'look' so bought a 16.3hh flashy gelding who is lovely on the ground but is just too much for this lady to ride. She won't admit it and is really struggling with him :(
 
FfionWinnie said:
Totally agree. Also having a ball on my c x d. She can be a wee monster but I never feel even slightly worried and I enjoy it.
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So true
I found it hilarious when my highland got mischievous and took off bucking in a stubble field yesterday. Yes he was out of control but I felt strangely safe. However if my 16h IDx tried it on (and he has) its not the least bit fun! (I'm quite lightweight and I know when he really means it he can ditch me fast) I don't even take him into them now :(
 
I think there is more than one type of over-horsing, sometimes being a bit over-horsed is a positive experience
When I bought big Ruby, I was on some levels completely over-horsed, she was 17hh, hw hunter, previously owned and ridden by very compatent men, we had a couple of hairy years, but luckily, her temperament was basically good and she was prepared to train me to be compatent. Had I bought the steady Eddie that I probably needed at that point, I would not have learnt what she could teach me.
However, my 2nd experience of being over horsed was quite different, a dishonest seller and a horse with a very challenging personality and a default setting of buck, rear, bolt.
 
To be honest I think it's just a trend. 20 + years ago it was all about something to hurtle around the countryside on in ODEs and then show jumping. As not everyone likes fast or high then eventually warm bloods and dressage have become increasingly popular and teeny tiny ladies dangling off the lead rope of a gigantic warmblood are common place on yards now! No different to coloured cobs. Years back no one thought much of coloured cobs but now they are the piece de resistance in the show ring with their flowing feathers!

Personally I like a good old fashioned Irish alrounder type of around 16hh max. Everyone has their own idea of perfect though! As long as the horses are well looked after and ridden sensibly then that is all that matters.
 
Well this is my experience in 32 been riding since 4 years old got my first pony at 4 then went in to have various ponys, competed at pony club moved on to horses , always problem horses I got cheap , dont lots of XC , BS etc last horse I got cheap she was written off as being a idiot with time and patience I going her going well, out competing etc at the BS. Anyway she went lame and went off to be a brood mare everyone I knew was too scared to ride her - very unpredictable - anyway I'd also always got flat and SJ lessons so I thought myself a reasonable rider and quite experienced for a armature - as after all it's not my profession just a hobbie

1 thing I never had was a youngster , so once my mare went it was time to buy a new horse I had what I thought as a decent large budget and planned on getting a 8 year old that was doing NC / Fox that was ready to go anyway fell in live with a big 17hh Oldenburg that was only 4 , thought hmmmm can I take on a youngster having never, thought well with lots of lessons I will be alright having witness over the years a number of numpteys bringing on youngsters I though why not..!

Two weeks after getting humid lying in a hospital bed with compartment syndrome from being bucked off and crushed by him, a operation to remove muscle from back of leg and skin grafts - I'm thinking WTF have I done..?? People told me oh you should sell him blah blah blah - saying is over horses myself..?? Well do you think I had..?? Or was I unlucky..?

Any way paid pro rider to bring him on for 3 months , and now a year from when I bought him we getting on fine, doing low level dressage, jumping even some small XC fences. And to think in jan this year the thought of getting back on him made me feel sick..! I think sometimes experienced or not people can be unlucky.

By the way he does still buck when upset by now I know how to deal with it back then I never realised out inside out youngsters can go.

I must say I'd never buy a well breed youngster again - I've learnt the hard way.
 
SadKen said:
I don't know the answer to this, but have just bought a 15hh Arab and have been very worried about people saying he is too small for me. As I'm only 5'4" that's unlikely but I have noticed a trend for these big monsters since I started riding again! To each his own, but I like my horses like I like my cars. Nippy and manoeuvreable! I rode a friend's 16.3 ISH and canter made me feel like I was going back in time.
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I think there's been some kind of inflation re. height. Didn't Horse and Hound do that feature last year about "amazing" "small" 15 - 16hh horses that could ! still ! jump! and compete! and hunt!

I'm five eleven and the other weekend I was out on a 27 year old Barb mare who must be a little over 15 hh and who pulled like billy o everytime we cantered as a group. Not a problem carrying me.. The idea that being five four makes you too big for an Arab is crazy.
 
I am currently over horsed. My 4yo is too much for me, she's gone to a friend to be got going. I've had her since 2.

I've backed plenty, including yearlings at a flat yard, ridden race horses, hunted jumped and had horses all my life. I don't think I am a fantastic rider but I am competent. But this one was more than I could do on my own.

I think it can genuinely happen to anyone. It's not that I couldn't sit what she was doing because I could but I had no help on the ground and I work full time so couldn't give it tonnes of time like it needed. So in this instance I am over horsed. I don't think I was stupid or naive or any of the other names being bandied about. Sometimes things just don't run how you think they will and a fresh set of eyes is required. Hopefully she'll be ok in the long run. I went to have a play today and she is certainly much improved since last time I rode her when she was bolt upright and waving to the world with her front legs. lol
 
I'm 5ft2 and have a 16.1hh TB, however I must have extremely long legs as I actually look quite big on him! Lol! He's a great horse though, rarely spooks, does what I ask of him, he naps when hacking out alone sometimes but iv learned to deal with it! I think you can have a large horse and be a small rider and be competent, it all depends on the horse and how much respect you have for eachother too! I think once you and your new horse get a bond and learn eachothers little habits, then it usually works out for the best :) takes time though!
 
When I was about 13 I was looking for my first horse/pony.
My mum would be helping me school and keep the horse fit.
Being VERY nervous I wanted a 100% bombproof horse.....
WELL we ended up with a 15.2 Irish Sports that bucked at every excitable opportunity and jogged most the hacks!
After about 6 months of crying and my mother forcing me to ride the thing I had got used to him and loved him!
In the end the squealing and HUGE bucking he did at shows was a lot of fun as he was enjoying him self so much.
The last few years I owned him we mostly rode bear back.
Yes I was probably over horsed but he taught me so much and in my deference I did not choose him :)
 
Ibblebibble said:
all of the above! there will always be those who want a flashy horse to make them look good , there will always be sellers willing to lie through their teeth to get shot of a problem horse and there will always be horses who will test a new rider and if they find them lacking turn into downright hooligans.
The joy of the internet is that we now get to hear about it so it seems to be more prevalent.
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I second this!!

I'm 5'4/5, and only have a 15.2hh ISH. She's very laid back, spooky, but extremely well behaved, we paid a lot for her temperament and luckily it never changed. I had a nightmare 14.2 (he was a Welsh D so of course he WOULD have attitude) - he was dangerous and gave me a really hard time. I've never been one to overhorse myself - and it annoys me when people buy flashy, highly strung horses just to keep up with the crowd.
I debated for a long time whether to get a bigger horse but didn't see the point in overhorsing myself. Rode a 17hh warmblood a few weeks ago and I looked like a pea on a drum. Definitely keeping my wee Irish mare :D
 
SadKen said:
I don't know the answer to this, but have just bought a 15hh Arab and have been very worried about people saying he is too small for me. As I'm only 5'4" that's unlikely but I have noticed a trend for these big monsters since I started riding again! To each his own, but I like my horses like I like my cars. Nippy and manoeuvreable! I rode a friend's 16.3 ISH and canter made me feel like I was going back in time.
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I like Nippy and manoeuvreable also , i'm 5'5 and have a 15hh (my old horse) a 14.3 and a 13.3 (the kids ponies) and at our yard i have seen many people on there big flash horses who can only ride in the school as hacking is just to much which i think is very sad :(
 
Yep been there , done that.

In My Defence

1. He was so beautiful, I couldn't resist!(shiny blackSec D)
2. Last time I had ridden was as a teenager 15 years before (also Sec D)- he would have been fine for me then. Hadn't appreciated the effects of having children/awareness of mortality etc...

Luckily he was on loan; when I was clutching the steering-wheel of my car waiting for it to spook, spin, bolt at something agricultural, I knew it was time to admit defeat!
 
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