Why do you need to count strides?

I think many pro riders/expert riders just do this adjustment without realising they are doing it! Up to a certain height, is it about 3'9, it doesn't matter much as a reasonable horse would have the scope to jump that without being too precise. Obviously the higher the fence the more critical the take-off point. And the harder the cross country course when you are taking bending lines and related fences.

The thing is to know what your horse does. I was at Mike Tucker clinic where one rider said her horse struggled on 4 strides, say, to make the distance, so he said well aim to ride it on 5 strides then.
 
My horse counts them so I don't need to. ;)

Seriously though my RI said it's my job to arrive with enough impulsion, give her the time she needs to see it and be straight. It's her job to jump it.
 
exracehorse said:
I was watching a professional give a talk at a clinic. He said he never counts strides. And you let the jump approach you.
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Yes, when i saw the title of this thread I was thinking about what someone said to me about what someone very well known had said to her during a clinic. It was a different professional.
 
I just point, aim and close my eyes ...

I have actually never been taught to jump properly - beyond a kid at riding school where they put you in a position and tell you to stay in it - I just kind of picked it up as I went along in the bits and bobs that I have done. I don't jump any of mine at home due to a combination of the fact I don't have time to ride them, I can't be assed dragging jumps in and out, dodgy legs and little legs. I occassionally jump at work but not very often - See this thread for more details ... https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...-rider-who-lacks-bottle.753547/#post-13628703

But when I do I pull down my smoked goggle, grab onto my Holy Crap Strap and quietly poop my pants! I leave EVERYTHING up to the horse! I am just a passenger! But unlike some I know what I can and what I can't do. I know I am not brave enough to go over the big fences but I know I have the fitness, core strength and balance to stay off their backs, go with them, not catch them in the mouth and not crash land on their backs. And sometimes look stylish lol!
 
I'm in the "point & shoot" club. Well I was when I was jumping properly back in the day. The lady who taught us just said look where you want to go and let the pony do the rest - it seemed to work although I lost interest before Team GB came to marvel at our combined talent. She was wise and always said "It's good if the pony has a natural affinity to jumping" so worth checking on a free school session over a track. I then got a horse who seemed to have received a similar upbringing so yippee that was easy... it literally was just point and shoot - any fence - arena/hunting/field/by accident. Jumped for fun on his own - never where you left him. Ok, you might have needed to slow down or speed up here and there but that's just a no-brainer if your proprioception is in working order.

I tried to apply this philosophy to a new one. You know; look up, just point and shoot philosophy? :D:D:D:D I pointed, and I shooted... off the horse. Despite the hours spent on clinics/lessons/grids/videos/books...

I suddenly remembered some wise words (see above).

Turns out it was just crap at jumping. So yes, in future, if I ever get back to jumping I am so done with the whole counting thing!!!! Gah! I'm just going to buy a horse that likes jumping! It really is all about horses for courses.
 
Zero00000 said:
Because there's nothing worse than getting too deep into a jump and going through it or stag jumping over it
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There is plenty worse .Dropping a horse onto his forehand as you come into a jump . If you cant see the stride ,take the first one or two short and open up . There is nothing worse than coming into a fence on the forehand and with no power .
 
I'm luckily enough to be small and can ride Connemaras. I have "taught" two to jump but they are such natural jumpers they don't need much help. I don't jump more than 1m but under 1 m, after the initial stages, I absolutely leave it to them. They know exactly how to arrive at a fence, are clever, can sort their feet out and get out of trouble. Wouldn't feel so sure about jumping a TB. So for me it depends who/what you are jumping for how much you need to think about setting up the fence. Yay for connemaras!
 
Before I had lessons my definition of jumping was getting from one side of the fence to the other, staying on and it staying up.

As jumping is a big canter stride with an obstacle, it's got to be about the bouncy canter.
I actually count the strides for polework so I can get what I am working on.
 
as an aside, counting strides in flatwork can be a useful diagnostic. When I started counting the canter strides my advanced horse was taking on short sides of the arena I was shocked to find she took one fewer stride on the right rein compared to the left ;) That tells you something is different and your horse basically isn't straight. With her it wasn't actually the canter that was different, she was taking over in the corners but in a subtle way so I hadn't noticed.
Just throwing a curve ball in there :p
 
milliepops said:
as an aside, counting strides in flatwork can be a useful diagnostic. When I started counting the canter strides my advanced horse was taking on short sides of the arena I was shocked to find she took one fewer stride on the right rein compared to the left ;) That tells you something is different and your horse basically isn't straight. With her it wasn't actually the canter that was different, she was taking over in the corners but in a subtle way so I hadn't noticed.
Just throwing a curve ball in there :p
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I must try that.
 
I started because I was finding it hard to make the turn onto the centre line an actual turn from the short side, instead of half a circle starting from the quarter marker.
Carl Hester says he knows how many strides the horses take around 10m circles etc so I thought perhaps I need to see how many strides I should have on the short side before we make the turn onto the centre line. Then found what was happening was different depending on which rein I was on o_O once you find the root of the problem it's easier to fix ;)
 
I had a JA pony who was basically a professor when it came to getting over fences, so I just left her to it. When I walked courses I just walked the best lines. We were definitely a partnership and helped each other out. She was a typical jumping pony in that she could chip in and take out strides effortlessly. It was like we were wired the same because I knew instinctively where she would take off.
 
I have some funny videos of friends on frank who are used to placing/counting strides. It's like he purposedly disobeys them and throws a long or short one in instead. My flatwork instructor jumped him once at home when I was off games and said how on earth do you jump this :D.
However, once you got to the top of his capacity, particularly with regards to spread he did listen more and need some help.
The mare craves someone to tell her exactly what to do at all times.

So it depends.
 
It’s my job to get the horse to the fence. It’s their job to jump it so why not try to make their job as easy as possible?

I always count my strides so I know if I need to shorten or lengthen but in general, if the canter is good and you ride straight at the fence it shouldn’t really matter if you’re a little bit off, even over the bigger fences.

You’re only ever going to be half a stride out anyways.
 
scats said:
I had a JA pony who was basically a professor when it came to getting over fences, so I just left her to it. When I walked courses I just walked the best lines. We were definitely a partnership and helped each other out. She was a typical jumping pony in that she could chip in and take out strides effortlessly. It was like we were wired the same because I knew instinctively where she would take off.
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Nice. I know what that feels like ❤️
 
hollyandivy123 said:
He probably is without thinking it’s part how he rides, naturally he has the knowledge of this horse at this speed equals so many horse strides etc
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This! I struggle to believe any professional who says that they never look for a stride because you can usually always see them adjust the canter before the fence, and even if they're doing it subconsciously they're still doing it. I understand that they don't want people to get hung up on seeing a good distance but if you have an okay eye and see a good stride to a decent jump then why wouldn't you ride for it!
 
MP - I did the same, we get a different number of strides on each rein in canter. But I’ve not really done much about it since learning that (not specifically anyway). What did you do to address it?

I was going to ask whether it’s an issue but I remembered that he does have a better canter on one rein than another, and we are working on that in our lessons.
 
scats said:
I had a JA pony who was basically a professor when it came to getting over fences, so I just left her to it. When I walked courses I just walked the best lines. We were definitely a partnership and helped each other out. She was a typical jumping pony in that she could chip in and take out strides effortlessly. It was like we were wired the same because I knew instinctively where she would take off.
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That's ponies, their stride is so much shorter than a big horse and they tend to think for themselves more so they can get themselves and the rider out of trouble. Horses generally don't have the same facility to sort themselves out, if they get in too deep or stand off a double, they are often in trouble and good course builders don't just build for height they also build a technical course that asks questions of the horse and rider.
 
Bernster said:
MP - I did the same, we get a different number of strides on each rein in canter. But I’ve not really done much about it since learning that (not specifically anyway). What did you do to address it?

I was going to ask whether it’s an issue but I remembered that he does have a better canter on one rein than another, and we are working on that in our lessons.
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yeah well I think it depends on what you want from your horses but for me, my training is basically about whether they are straight, and equally supple on both reins (plus then teaching them the exercises and movements we need for competition). So finding a difference like that shows that there's work to be done on the basic suppleness or responses, which would ultimately affect scores in tests (at Kira's level it means that one pirouette isn't as rideable or one change isn't as good, at Darcy's level one 20m circle gets smaller and one drifts bigger ;))

With Kira specifically I figured out that the problem was two-fold, one that she was being lazy around the corner and anticipating getting out of the corner before we'd really got into it, she needed to be more patient in that respect so we did some halting in corners and waiting to be told to exit them.
In addition I did some work to get her really around my inside leg on that rein to stop the motorbiking tendency and keep the rideability.
put the 2 together and with practice she learnt not to expect to get away with cutting the corners and stayed more upright and balanced. That meant I could keep the canter strides in between corners more consistent.

that's a specific example with a horse that already has a very adjustable and quite good canter but I would say those 2 issues are extremely common and would be a good place to start ;)
 
oldie48 said:
That's ponies, their stride is so much shorter than a big horse and they tend to think for themselves more so they can get themselves and the rider out of trouble. Horses generally don't have the same facility to sort themselves out, if they get in too deep or stand off a double, they are often in trouble and good course builders don't just build for height they also build a technical course that asks questions of the horse and rider.
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Yep, that’s why I found jumping the ponies far more fun than the horses!
 
I can sort of see a stride, but have a very naughty tendency to panic and go for a long one.

I went to a few gymnastic jumping sessions taken by Pat Burgess at Solihull RC. She taught some of the team GB team as well as us lesser lights. They were fab sessions, and I ended up jumping 3’9” at the end of a grid, which is huge for me.

Then we would be allowed ‘play time’ at the end where we had to jump a course without the security of a grid or placing poles. I would end up ‘going for a long one again’, dammit. Best stick to flat work (though the sessions really brightened up my dressage horse).

https://www.tilefieldequestrian.com/memories-of-show-jumping-with-the-legendary-pat-burgess/
 
I'm crap at it and very much a point and shoot rider.

As a result my horse will often knock a pole. He's the type that needs setting up correctly, he will always jump but he won't sort his own striding out particularly well without rider input.

I don't generally jump big but have done on others in the past, setting them up incorrectly will result in stops which for me results in eating dirt.
 
oldie48 said:
That's ponies, their stride is so much shorter than a big horse and they tend to think for themselves more so they can get themselves and the rider out of trouble. Horses generally don't have the same facility to sort themselves out, if they get in too deep or stand off a double, they are often in trouble and good course builders don't just build for height they also build a technical course that asks questions of the horse and rider.
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So the answer is take a pony. :D
 
I completely agree Tiddlypom, brilliant for brightening up a dressage horses' life!!

If you want to jump - imho - I would definitely just get one that likes the job and knows what they are doing. I can understand why people have different horses for different things - your average person can't just have a yardful of horses ready to do a specific job. (the dream eh?)

I think it's a very special horse that can turn a hoof to anything...... to add to that - I completely respect any rider that can count strides and teach a less than able horse how to do something.
 
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