Why do you use a sheepskin half pad?

sbloom said:
I think this is a really unhelpful metaphor, though oft repeated. A shoe is a closed container with a volume inside it, not comparable to a saddle which is more like a rucksack with a structure in it like a rucksack frame (if you have to find a metaphor, not that it's relevant when talking about padding).

A thick pad such as sheepskin, if well designed and in most cases, will simply lift the front of the saddle more than the back. It is actually really easy to feel if it's making anything tight - press on the pommel or girth the saddle up and gently run your hand, with palm and fingertips against the horse, from pommel down to below the points and feel what the horse feels, you should get a good idea if it is pinching. Proceed with caution, the odd horse doesn't like this being done, tha vast majority are fine and personally I think you need to learn to feel what your horse is feeling.

A well designed pad, under most saddles and on most horses, is cut away at the gullet and will not cause pressure. What it will do is very slightly tip the saddle back therefore the fit should be either very slightly wider, or lightly flocked at the front, than it otherwise would be for a thin pad. For instance if you use a sheepskin for showing then you should be using a similar thickness pad every day or your saddle will be very slightly low or wide or both in front. So tipping back is one possible symptom of a saddle being too narrow, it does not actually mean that adding a sheepskin makes your saddle to narrow.

Sheepskin is awesome stuff, it absorbs more concussion than can flocking or foam on its own, and unlike flocking it bounces back. For this reason it is brilliant for remedial fitting where muscle loss is present (especially with shims where needed) but also for very heavy riders who can really compress flocking fast. It absorbs sweat really well, so is useful in summer, not just winter, and it's why many endurance riders use them, changing them once or twice on longer rides.

Showjumpers use them partly for fashion but there is also a specific reason for using them with a jump saddle. Because of the forward nature of the flap it sill sit across the shoulder blade, if there is a slight lack of shape/muscle behind the shoulder blade then the flap has to really come up and out to get over it, and it will restrict the shoulder. A thick half pad will lift the saddle up and back, giving more clearance on the shoulder.

If I had a horse I would fit my saddles to be used with a sheepskin, and in my opinion the real deal is British sheepskin, not merino lambskin which is a good product but to my mind not much different to shorn wool sewn into a knitted backing.
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That's interesting. I am now starting a re-fittening programme with my horse after he was diagnosed with interspinous desmopathy in Aug last year after I was trying to have him re-backed following some major issues he was showing with having a saddle on (initial backing /hacking out i did myself went fine)
I am now paranoid about saddle fit and think he may always need some padding under the saddle.
The vet said if I build his top line /muscles they see no reason why he shouldn't be able to work normally. If not the option is to cut the ligaments.
Sheepskin padding may be a good option for him from the sounds of it
 
Tnavas said:
How can a flat 2 dimensional piece of material be the shape of a 3 dimensional horse, there is some shape along the spine but nothing to conform to the shape of the horse.

No one is able to convince me that a numnah, saddle cloth or half pad will shape to the horse in comfort
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The weave in the cloth gives to the shape of the horse. The skin or woven cloth holding the wool does too. There are no creases in my nuumed high wither wool cloths, they have no straps on and they NEVER slip.

You're in a tiny minority not using a cloth. I don't really think it can be true that the rest of us are riding uncomfortable horses.
 
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ycbm said:
The weave in the cloth gives to the shape of the horse. The skin or woven cloth holding the wool does too. There are no creases in my nuumed high wither wool cloths, they have no straps on and they NEVER slip.
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The skin will only shape if worked on when wet. Woven material will only change shape on the bias. If the base structure is knitted then there is some possibility that it may shape some.

With no straps how does your saddle blanket/numnah stay in place, how does it stay up in the gullet, what prevents it from becoming tight over the backbone.

I've not yet seen one that will stay up inside the gullet and channel even with straps to the girth straps and a loop for the girth to go through
 
Tnavas said:
I've not yet seen one that will stay up inside the gullet and channel even with straps to the girth straps and a loop for the girth to go through
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That's interesting, I'm sat here trying to think if I've ever noticed that the saddle cloth is no longer off the back at the end of a ride. I will have to remember to pay more attention after my next ride and see if I'm still happy with the positioning of the cloth.

I'm also interested about the carpet underfelt that you (Tnavas) have mentioned being used in a riding school, if you don't mind me asking a few questions. Was that washed after each ride? Did each horse have several so that there was always a clean one available, and if so were they marked in some way so they could be identified? Did it stay in place? Presumably any well-made felt could do the same job?
 
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Tnavas said:
The skin will only shape if worked on when wet. Woven material will only change shape on the bias. If the base structure is knitted then there is some possibility that it may shape some.

With no straps how does your saddle blanket/numnah stay in place, how does it stay up in the gullet, what prevents it from becoming tight over the backbone.

I've not yet seen one that will stay up inside the gullet and channel even with straps to the girth straps and a loop for the girth to go through
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You seem very closed minded? There are two of us telling you that we use cloths that fit and stay put with no straps, can't you just believe us?

All woven materials have give in them. All skin products have give in them. Good cloths from a quality brand do fit horses, and you're one of the very few people left in the world who ride without a cloth under their saddle.
 
I wash saddle cloths after 2 uses! They never ever smell or get dirty my horses are also fully clipped and bathed weekly! I don't knkw anyone who rides without a saddle cloth and most I know use sheep. I know people from BN-Gp and their horses are all fine! I think they would laugh if I came out with no saddle cloth on!
 
This is funny, when saddle cloths and numnahs started to appear in pretty colours, the kids would get them and we'd all have a chuckle.

Believe me there are many of us older folk who don't use them.

Ycbm - woven material has give only on the bias, not in line with the warp and weft threads.

And no I'm not closed minded, just been around long enough to see that the majority of saddle cloths cause problems. I'm constantly adjusting saddle clothes and numnahs at PC rallies. If there any that truly don't move after a while then I've not yet seen them. You only have to look at the horses sweaty under saddle area - you see lines and depressions where the numnah has ceased to be flat. You look on my horses back and all you will see is the dust and grease that have worked its way out to the back, and maybe a small sweaty area on a hot day.

ArtNouveau the felts were named, they shaped to the shape of the horses spine and it was easy to see which was the front. We had a pupil who's father was a carpet layer so were able to replenish as and when needed. They had to be washed in cold water, by hand using wool wash. They were washed on a Sunday afternoon and allowed to drip dry through to Tuesday, we were closed Monday. Only reason I continued the use was because the owner of the school who I leased from insisted. All the horses and ponies I bought myself did not have anything under the saddle.

One thing I learnt from an old stockman was the making of saddle blankets from a jute sack and waste hair from clipping. The sack is lightly filled the end sewn up and then placed under the saddle. Eventually so I'm told the hairs come through the jute weave and matt making a perfectly shaped impression of horse and saddle.
 
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I would say it depends on the sheepskin/lambskin/backing involved and the quilting above.

Lambskin has a thick hide, therefore not as flexible but cheaper to buy. Sheepskin has a thinner hide which depending on how it's tanned can be as flexible as your own skin, some brands have very dense hair as well but be careful of the ones with longer less dense hair, they'll compact and not bounce back back up. Wool (shaun and woven into a backing) can be very flexible depending on the backing, if woven well on a flexible mesh backing it can be flexible but generally not as flexible as the best sheepskin. What also matters a lot is the layer material and filling above the sheepskin/lambskin/wool; if it is cut and quilted in a diamond/square/wave/zigzag pattern, it all makes a difference to flexibility.

In terms of staying in the gullet, I too have not found saddlecloths to always stay put (although if they start high they tend to put less pressure on as they come down). I've always chosen therefore, saddlecloths and half pads with either wool all the way across the back (no gullet channel cut out) or with a comfortable, soft spine. This means I'm confident that even if it were to pull down I don't risk harsh material on the spine.
 
I've been riding for nearly 40 years and have always used a Numnah or saddle cloth except occasionally ( ie in the show ring) ... Equally I've never seen a problem with a saddlecloth that is fitted correctly... I don't use pads (except whilst waiting for saddle fitting on a new horse) but always use a thin felt lined cloth which I concur never move if the saddle fits.
 
Tnavas said:
And no I'm not closed minded, just been around long enough to see that the majority of saddle cloths cause problems. I'm constantly adjusting saddle clothes and numnahs at PC rallies. If there any that truly don't move after a while then I've not yet seen them. You only have to look at the horses sweaty under saddle area - you see lines and depressions where the numnah has ceased to be flat. You look on my horses back and all you will see is the dust and grease that have worked its way out to the back, and maybe a small sweaty area on a hot day.
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Of course there are saddlecloths that move about, and are useless, and bunch up and end up behind the saddle. But you seem to be assuming that there are no discerning buyers who would assess the product before they bought it, and make a judgement on performance upon using it.

I've always used a numnah or saddle cloth, if they wriggle about or wrinkle they get binned or I'm handy enough with a sewing machine to reshape them/adjust tabs etc. All mine will stay put without straps, I'm obsessed about not sitting on numnah seams and having clearance through the gullet so I notice these things.

They go in the wash as often as required. Given the responses on this thread I don't think that's unusual.
 
Tnavas your arguments seem pretty sensible to me. I always use a thin numnah but will try riding a few times without and see how if goes.

I'm personally not a fan of pads and half pads. I'm sure there are some intelligent sensible horse people using them sensibly and with a good understanding of fitting saddles, but for every one of those there will be 100 numpties creating a problem with their saddle fit.
 
Interesting post. I do have a half pad which is used from time to time but that comes from having a young horse who seemed hellbent of changing shape overnight. This was done on the advice of a master saddler.

But the comment about plain thin numnahs made me think. I wanted to replace my white comp dressage square. I had to end up going on line as all local shops stocked ones with pads in. I didn't want that, my saddle is not fitted for that AND they are pretty much double the price of a plain one.
 
Its always hard changing our pre conceived ideas - leg boots were the first for me was so weird not using them after having it ingrained to use them but when you look at the facts they are only good for impact protections and you have to offset the heat factor in that.

Personally I would not ride my horse if it needed its mouth tied shut / held down its shows a lack of training and short cut taking by the person on board (and possibly riders before that) .

I always use a thin saddle blanket (saddle was fitted with it) riding without one does seem weird but Ill give it a go and see how the horse reacts.
 
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