Why does it seem so odd to get chiro for dogs?

fankino04

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2010
Messages
2,781
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
Just musing really as I've decided to get chiro out for my dog as his back is still no better after 10 days (it gets better, then he does a tiny bit of exercise and it's back to square 1) thing is although I would often get back man before vet for my horse it feels odd to get back person for dog, vets want to try different pain meds etc then x Ray if no better so decided to get 2nd opinion from an expert who can hopefully check him over and tell me at least if it's skeletal or muscular which vets haven't, they said at this stage x rays wouldn't be worth it as treatment would still be pain killers initially but maybe something needs realigning? Is it much less common to get a chiro out for a dog than a horse / human?
 

CorvusCorax

Justified & Ancient
Joined
15 January 2008
Messages
57,217
Location
Mu Mu Land
Visit site
Depends, some vets are more forward thinking than others. Chiro is fairly popular with sports dogs, for pet dogs not so much.

I was able to get my dog fully x-rayed (hips, elbows, back, shoulder, hocks etc) on request, under sedation, as I wanted a look-see before competing with him (He's a mature dog and I haven't had him that long).
Would it not be better to x-ray first/is this not something you can do?

But an MRI might reveal more than an x-ray.
If it's DM, it's hard to diagnose. I'd be caging him, based on your other posts, if he's still markedly in pain. If you have slippy floors, rugs down everywhere, no roughousing with other dog and no self-regulating.
 

JennBags

HHOSS Wonder Woman
Joined
21 May 2002
Messages
18,177
Location
West Sussex
Visit site
I think it's partly as horses are used for exercise and competition, whereas a dog is usually exercised for their enjoyment rather than for any other reason, so if they're a little lame/stiff, and it's not something serious, I guess we hope it will get better given time and rest.
 

BallyJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 January 2013
Messages
1,175
Visit site
I'm currently fighting my vets to allow my dog to see a physio!

Its a real pain - they'd rather sign off a 4yo dog to pain relief for the rest of her life.
 

fankino04

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2010
Messages
2,781
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
Depends, some vets are more forward thinking than others. Chiro is fairly popular with sports dogs, for pet dogs not so much.

I was able to get my dog fully x-rayed (hips, elbows, back, shoulder, hocks etc) on request, under sedation, as I wanted a look-see before competing with him (He's a mature dog and I haven't had him that long).
Would it not be better to x-ray first/is this not something you can do?

But an MRI might reveal more than an x-ray.
If it's DM, it's hard to diagnose. I'd be caging him, based on your other posts, if he's still markedly in pain. If you have slippy floors, rugs down everywhere, no roughousing with other dog and no self-regulating.
He's never been crate trained so don't want to stress him out with putting him in there now, also don't want him in a small space doing tight turns, just need to train OH better to use a lead and just take him out for a toilet break rather than leave the door open all evening (I've told him several times, dog now wears a harness with a house line attached but still can't get him to take it seriously). If chiro can't diagnose on Friday then will request x rays from vets and see if that sheds more light on it but they seemed to think we should give him more time (bit like the NHS with my own back) and I'm impatient so booked chiro which I realised I had never considered for a dog before but has always been first choice for me or my horse...
 

{97702}

...
Joined
9 July 2012
Messages
14,849
Visit site
I don’t think it’s odd at all to be honest - I’ve seen chiropractors used regularly for dogs of all kinds of breeds, including my own dogs

The only stipulation from any reputable chiropractor is that they have a vet referral form completed (whether for a horse or a dog 😊) so they are aware of the medical history

ETA - I’m personally also cautious about chiropractors ‘diagnosing’ problems - whether for horses or dogs! - as they can often have quite limited training. I think I’d be thinking X-rays (or even MRI scan if he is insured!) in your position given the severity of the symptoms you have described?
 

fankino04

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2010
Messages
2,781
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
I'm currently fighting my vets to allow my dog to see a physio!

Its a real pain - they'd rather sign off a 4yo dog to pain relief for the rest of her life.
That's terrible, I understand why the physio needs vet approval but I do think if they are qualified we should be able to choose who treats our animals.
 

CorvusCorax

Justified & Ancient
Joined
15 January 2008
Messages
57,217
Location
Mu Mu Land
Visit site
Ok...it's a pity your OH is acting like that. Could you not even cordon off a smaller area with a child's playpen etc? If his movement is not limited he's never going to get the chance to recover.

I've never had a problem asking a vet to do something and take my business elsewhere if I don't like the answer. In your shoes I'd have x-rays and wouldn't be leaving diagnosis to a chiropractor but it's your dog. Hope you get some answers soon.
 

fankino04

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2010
Messages
2,781
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
He is restricted to the sitting room except when my partner is home without me and just leaves the back door open 😠 I've got half days tomorrow and Friday and off at the weekend so can control things a bit more then. I get your point CC about x rays first but that seemed to take longer to arrange with vet than getting the chiro so thought I would take that as first option, I've always trusted backman without x rays for horses so...
Also it's not like I'm ditching vet for physio just gathering a range of opinions.
 

teddypops

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 March 2008
Messages
2,428
Visit site
He's never been crate trained so don't want to stress him out with putting him in there now, also don't want him in a small space doing tight turns, just need to train OH better to use a lead and just take him out for a toilet break rather than leave the door open all evening (I've told him several times, dog now wears a harness with a house line attached but still can't get him to take it seriously). If chiro can't diagnose on Friday then will request x rays from vets and see if that sheds more light on it but they seemed to think we should give him more time (bit like the NHS with my own back) and I'm impatient so booked chiro which I realised I had never considered for a dog before but has always been first choice for me or my horse...

Chiro shouldn’t be diagnosing anything! That is for a vet only (by law).
 

fankino04

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2010
Messages
2,781
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
Also, a chiro (or physio) should always seek permission from the vet before seeing your dog , or horse. Often just a courtesy phone call is enough but they shouldn't treat without this.
She has got permission to treat from the vet and he's booked back in at the vets on Monday for a follow up and to discuss any findings from her visit.
 

fankino04

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2010
Messages
2,781
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
I don’t think it’s odd at all to be honest - I’ve seen chiropractors used regularly for dogs of all kinds of breeds, including my own dogs

The only stipulation from any reputable chiropractor is that they have a vet referral form completed (whether for a horse or a dog 😊) so they are aware of the medical history

ETA - I’m personally also cautious about chiropractors ‘diagnosing’ problems - whether for horses or dogs! - as they can often have quite limited training. I think I’d be thinking X-rays (or even MRI scan if he is insured!) in your position given the severity of the symptoms you have described?
When he's not on gabapentin his symptoms aren't particularly bad, I just confused the lethergy, lack of Co ordination and wobblyness side effects as symptoms of his back issue, trouble is the anti inflammatories are making him feel too good so he's been moving too much (not lots, he's very laid back normally anyway) and is then stiff next day. Vet agreed when chatting today that he needs full rest and putting back on gabapentin to stop him trying to exercise is a good idea, he says if he's no better after a week of FULL rest then we'll x Ray but that might not show anything so mri is an option but as not insured we are looking at all options first (as I said his pain seems under control when exercise is totally restricted)
 

CorvusCorax

Justified & Ancient
Joined
15 January 2008
Messages
57,217
Location
Mu Mu Land
Visit site
Your OH really isn't being fair on you or the dog, he needs time to recover. My dog was on cage rest for a week due to a wound on his foot and is only now getting free rein in the garden after nearly a fortnight - being a large, weight-bearing breed, he needs time to rest fully.
 

fankino04

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2010
Messages
2,781
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
Your OH really isn't being fair on you or the dog, he needs time to recover. My dog was on cage rest for a week due to a wound on his foot and is only now getting free rein in the garden after nearly a fortnight - being a large, weight-bearing breed, he needs time to rest fully.
I think we may have had a breakthrough on that front last night when he realised that I've had to take time off work coz he can't be trusted, I also had to feed them at 5am this morning to avoid him doing their breakfast and toilets before the gym 😡
 

Stiff Knees

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 May 2019
Messages
1,287
Visit site
I think it's odd that your vet wants to keep him on the Gabapentin even though you're seeing lots of undesirable side effects, sure, those side effects are keeping him quiet, which may well aid his recovery, but lack of coordination, wobbliness and lethargy seem an extreme price to pay just to keep him chilled out. If he's not getting any pain relief from the Gabapentin, as you suspect, there must be something the vet can prescribe to keep him relaxed, but without the other side effects?? Happy to be corrected by those of you more knowledgeable than me!
 

fankino04

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2010
Messages
2,781
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
How did the chiro appointment go??🐾❤️
She said he had a badly rotated pelvis which she has corrected, vet said he would be very sore after so to fully dose him up on his painkillers tonight which I did straight after. He was very sorry for himself since 3.30 but perked right up about half hour ago, looks straighter in his back now but still keeps turning very tight and not straightening himself up as quick as I would like (stupid dog doesn't seem to know how to help himself lol). Chiro says he will need a couple more treatments but to check how he is after the weekend as may do x rays before next correction. She seemed happy with how it went but says there could be degeneration in the joint or damage to the femur head so definitely worth the x rays.
 

Stiff Knees

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 May 2019
Messages
1,287
Visit site
Well, you're doing all you can to help him, he just needs to look after himself now...hoping he continues to improve over the weekend. 🐾😍
 

fankino04

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2010
Messages
2,781
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
He's chilling in his hallway now and actually looks like his back is more stretched out than it has been the last few weeks, he's on his side with his back legs slightly behind him, I'm pretty sure the last few weeks even on his side his back has been a bit hunched and he's kept his legs and bum under him more so hopefully that's a good sign that his back is relaxing...
 

Stiff Knees

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 May 2019
Messages
1,287
Visit site
Stretching out is a good sign, after our Jakey had his spleen removed he was very hunched for a week and when he began to straighten and stretch out we knew he was on the mend. We still have our fingers crossed for you both.
 

fankino04

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2010
Messages
2,781
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
Well last night he got up fairly easily for his supper (he did have his new anti slip doggy socks on to help), he was walking much better when I took him in the garden for a pee. The chiro said if he wants to walk about let him but not to let him do more than walk so when we came in I took his lead off and let him choose whether to lie down or not and he had quite a good wander round, investigated my dinner, lay down then got up again to come and say hi etc. This was more walking than he has done since it started so thought he might be really sore this morning but he got up as soon as I came in the room (he had taken his socks off so struggled a bit but no crying and was pretty quick to get up), yesterday morning he wouldn't get up for his breakfast and ate lying down so I think yesterday's treatment was definitely beneficial, he hadn't had any drugs since 4pm yesterday and although walking gingerly his back was definitely less hunched than it had been (not quite as relaxed as last night but I expect it will stiffen up at night much like mine does). My main concern now is that he had wet himself last night, He has done this a few times since this started but always when I've gone over to him so I presumed it might be anxiety related thinking I was going to make him get up. He still has bladder control when he goes out in the garden so not sure if this is a physical couldn't hold it thing or a mental no one's here to open the door so no point getting up anyway thing. Follow up is booked with vet for Wednesday so hopefully he will continue improving and it will be a positive chat, need to call them on Monday to find out if I can get x rays arranged for same visit rather than have to take him twice when getting in and out of the car is so uncomfortable for him.
 

Stiff Knees

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 May 2019
Messages
1,287
Visit site
I've never had any experience of incontinence (other than hormone related in my elderly spayed bitch) so I can offer any advice I'm afraid. Sending you positive vibes though...🐾❤️🐾
 

fankino04

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2010
Messages
2,781
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
Some good and bad bits over the weekend so brought his vet appointment forward to today and they have booked him in for x rays tomorrow, not sure what might show up on an x Ray that is good news but hopefully there will be...
 

CorvusCorax

Justified & Ancient
Joined
15 January 2008
Messages
57,217
Location
Mu Mu Land
Visit site
Good luck tomorrow. Sorry to be Debbie Downer but if he's not sound without constant medication and incontinent, it may be that he is losing control of his rear end and long term quality of life may become a consideration - but fingers crossed it's not that serious.
 

fankino04

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2010
Messages
2,781
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
Good luck tomorrow. Sorry to be Debbie Downer but if he's not sound without constant medication and incontinent, it may be that he is losing control of his rear end and long term quality of life may become a consideration - but fingers crossed it's not that serious.
That's been weighing on my mind for the last week, I think the incontenance is more emotional than physical, this morning he didn't get up for breakfast or to go out so didn't make him and he hadn't wet overnight, when he got out of the car at the vets at lunch time he had the longest pee ever so he had clearly been holding it in to avoid getting up then went when I made him get up. He currently seems really happy and bright and gets up whenever I go in the hallway and when I put the lead on at lunchtime to make him get up for the vets he got up pretty easily and headed for the back gate to go on a proper walk so there are some positive signs that I'm trying to hold onto but I know some horrible decision may be around the corner 😥
 
Top