Why I prefer animals to people!

But it's not really just "their problem", is it? If someone hit her, she could be responsible for the death of the driver too.

If another motorist drove without lights and nearly caused an accident, we would be furious- we'd probably hoot at them, indicating our anger, or flash our lights at them asking them to turn theirs on. If there was a rubbish item left on a dark road, we'd all condemn the person responsible as negligent. We wouldn't feel guilty reporting it. And fly-grazing horses that get onto roads? Somehow I doubt we'd come across one of those in the dark and merely say "it's the owners problem."

No- when people behave in a dangerous manner which puts other at risk we feel rightfully angry. We feel we have a duty to protect others from the danger as best as we can.

So when an adult, who must be aware of the existence of hi-viz, puts herself, her horse and other road users at risk, why is it we feel that it would be inappropriate to say something or that it is somehow "her business" alone? She's putting a large, heavy, solid object on the road in the dark. It's SO dangerous- for all road users.
 
LadyGascoyne said:
But it's not really just "their problem", is it? If someone hit her, she could be responsible for the death of the driver too.

If another motorist drove without lights and nearly caused an accident, we would be furious- we'd probably hoot at them, indicating our anger, or flash our lights at them asking them to turn theirs on. If there was a rubbish item left on a dark road, we'd all condemn the person responsible as negligent. We wouldn't feel guilty reporting it. And fly-grazing horses that get onto roads? Somehow I doubt we'd come across one of those in the dark and merely say "it's the owners problem."

No- when people behave in a dangerous manner which puts other at risk we feel rightfully angry. We feel we have a duty to protect others from the danger as best as we can.

So when an adult, who must be aware of the existence of hi-viz, puts herself, her horse and other road users at risk, why is it we feel that it would be inappropriate to say something or that it is somehow "her business" alone? She's putting a large, heavy, solid object on the road in the dark. It's SO dangerous- for all road users.
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Well said
 
Drivers who hit things are driving at inappropriate speed for the conditions , I do think hi viz is a good idea but if a driver hits something because they are to blame is the sun is bright you have to go very very slow if foggy the same .
I also think those who think it's acceptable to lead or ride horses in public places in the dark lit or otherwise are nuts .
My big bugbear ,I think people who ride so badly that I cringe at their weak positions when I see them riding a 500 kilo horse on a public road are nuts and have concept of the danger their lack of skill is causing to others but I don't stop and tell them.
It's just that stopping to give an adult and ticking off and then getting angry when they got a bit miffed seems to me strange of course there was a fair chance the person stopped was going to be miffed, why does that matter to OP.
 
amymay said:
Then hi viz wouldn't have made any difference...
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But appropriate speed by drivers will.
There's a notorious sun spot in our village which strikes in the afternoon, you have be going very slowly , at worse you have to stop completely to make it worse it's where a old house juts into the road making less than two cars wide .
 
Goldenstar said:
Drivers who hit things are driving at inappropriate speed for the conditions , I do think hi viz is a good idea but if a driver hits something because they are to blame is the sun is bright you have to go very very slow if foggy the same .
I also think those who think it's acceptable to lead or ride horses in public places in the dark lit or otherwise are nuts .
My big bugbear ,I think people who ride so badly that I cringe at their weak positions when I see them riding a 500 kilo horse on a public road are nuts and have concept of the danger their lack of skill is causing to others but I don't stop and tell them.
It's just that stopping to give an adult and ticking off and then getting angry when they got a bit miffed seems to me strange of course there was a fair chance the person stopped was going to be miffed, why does that matter to OP.
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So a driver who perhaps hits a child who runs into the road from behind a parked car is driving at an inappropriate speed? There are many incidents that happen that aren't the fault of the driver. A weak position doesn't mean that a person isn't in control of their horse, they may well have a condition which doesn't allow them to look picture perfect but they remain well in control.

It wasn't a ticking off in any sense, it was a very polite discussion for the good of the owner and animal and I am not "miffed", simply shocked at the outburst which the rider felt was necessary when she felt I was out of earshot, if she had been miffed then it would be expected to say what she felt at the time, not shouting out to a departing vehicle. It matters to me as I am a caring human being who am the sort of person who would not walk by any person who was in need of help, I have put myself at risk of injury to save others on a couple of occasions and have saved three lives in the course of my actions.
 
Hacking out on Sunday (complete with high vis) we met a couple of riders. The first time I saw them very easily - we were either side of a busy junction. On our way back down a long straight road, we met them again. They were not even on the hedge side of the road but if they had not been wearing high vis, they would have been completely invisible because of the woods about half a mile behind them. They were on a chestnut and a bay and, as our paths crossed, I told them how I'd spotted their high vis from half a mile away but couldn't see the rest of them until close up. We all had a self-congratulatory moment but it really drove the point home to me about how important it is.

Because it is a long, straight, wide section of road, I can see how a driver could have been lulled into thinking it was clear and they could do 60mph. I completely take the appropriate speed point but, as a driver, you do tend to judge that on what you can see ahead. You can see down the road for at least a mile but those horses would have been invisible without the high vis.

Unfortunately we are fighting a losing battle. Those who understand what a difference it makes, wear it while others don't care.
 
If a driver hits an object from behind because it's moving slower than them travelling in the same direction as they are it is the drivers fault .
Things coming at speed from the side are a more grey area .
 
I'm not going to trust that drivers will drive at suitable speeds. Cars are driven by all sorts of people, usually in a rush. The onus is on us to be as visible as possible if we HAVE to ride on the road (some have no choice). I have no problem telling anyone I can't see them, riders, cyclists, walkers.
For MY benefit. I don't want to hit someone.
 
teabiscuit said:
I'm not going to trust that drivers will drive at suitable speeds. Cars are driven by all sorts of people, usually in a rush. The onus is on us to be as visible as possible if we HAVE to ride on the road (some have no choice). I have no problem telling anyone I can't see them, riders, cyclists, walkers.
For MY benefit. I don't want to hit someone.
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Of course you don't want to be hit by someone .
 
moleskinsmum said:
I think the poster's point was that he/she doesn't want to hit someone, not be hit BY someone
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Oh yes misread that .sorry .
Horses are not any more invisible than small grey cars which can be alarmingly invisible .
I wish to be clear I am not in any way anti hi viz .
I just would never ever take it on my self to give a stranger the benefit off me experience in this area and then be surprised or angry to get a less than friendly reception .
I think it would be 50 /50 which reaction you would get .
 
I too would be miffed if another adult gave me a lecture on what I should be wearing. Whether hi-viz makes you safer is an opinion, not a fact. I read a report of an experiment conducted with motorbikes, in some situations, hi-viz actually makes you less visible and dark colours are better. If wearing it makes you feel better fine, but don't try and impose your opinion on someone else.
 
Princess Rosie said:
I actually carefully stopped my car at the edge of the road and rider had her horse at a junction of a very quiet road at the point of discussion and no, my car is very quiet and having been a horsewoman for 36 years I am cautious in terms of causing others potential issues.

I certainly won't be stopping again to offer live saving advice and yes, this particular woman was an absolute horror!

Thanks for all the posts of support, I was genuinely upset by this incident as there was no reason for her rudeness.
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I would hope she was so embarassed that her only way of reacting was to go on the defensive. Otherwise she is a complete idiot. I get this a lot with cyclists out where I live. They have no lights, wear grey or dark clothing and in some light you just cant see them. Good for you for informing her that you were unable to see her in the poor light. You never know she may decide to think about others and especially her horse before doing it again.
 
Vinney said:
I would hope she was so embarassed that her only way of reacting was to go on the defensive. Otherwise she is a complete idiot. I get this a lot with cyclists out where I live. They have no lights, wear grey or dark clothing and in some light you just cant see them. Good for you for informing her that you were unable to see her in the poor light. You never know she may decide to think about others and especially her horse before doing it again.
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Thank you, even if she was cross with my very polite intervention and she remembers me, even at that same point in the road and it makes her think and helps keep her safe then I will be very happy for her and her lovely horse.

There are some crazy drivers out there which I think we have all witnessed and hacking does certainly seem more risky than years ago. A huge pat on the back to all that go out brightly coloured to keep themselves and their beloved horses safer on the roads.

I just couldn't have not said anything in this situation to have driven back along the road 10mins later (I was off to pick up a new rug) and seen this lady and her lovely horse injured in the road, I would never have forgiven myself.
 
People who ride without visible clothing are pretty stupid but....

has anyone stopped their car to tell a pedestrian that they should wear hi viz ? They're a real hazard on dark ,wet days, particularly crossing the road.
If you'd stop a horse rider to give unsolicited advice, then surely you'd stop every cyclist and pedestrian too ? Might take quite a while to get to work though.
 
I don't pass many cyclists, riders or walkers who aren't easily seen. But on 4 or 5 occasions over my 30 odd years as a driver, I've been terrified by how invisible people can be on the road.
I don't drive fast, but if I can't see you, how can I avoid you?
My friend was just 17 when he was walking along a dark road with his mate. A car ran into them, his mate was dead.
They were in dark clothes.
Lives devastated.
 
teabiscuit said:
I don't pass many cyclists, riders or walkers who aren't easily seen. But on 4 or 5 occasions over my 30 odd years as a driver, I've been terrified by how invisible people can be on the road.
I don't drive fast, but if I can't see you, how can I avoid you?
My friend was just 17 when he was walking along a dark road with his mate. A car ran into them, his mate was dead.
They were in dark clothes.
Lives devastated.
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A bus driver friend ran over a school boy on his bike and killed him. No hi viz. She has never got over it, her life will never be the same, nor will the child's parents. Hence why I wonder about the frequency when drivers admonish horse riders for not wearing hi viz but school children dressed in black on dark winter mornings seem to be socially acceptable.
 
This is an interesting thread.

I always wear hi viz and I'm glad its becoming more popular, but I'm joining the side that says OP its not your business to advise other road users how to dress and responsibility for crashing into (or not) more vulnerable road users lies with the motorists. I drive and ride and whilst driving have been surprised and annoyed to suddenly spot a dark horse and rider when hi viz would have given me more time to prepare to pass them, but I still think had I hit them or been unable to safely negotiate them, that would have been my fault for driving too fast and poor observation, not theirs just for being there, all be it unilluminated.
 
luckyoldme said:
If someone couldnt see you how would they find you to tell you they couldnt see you?
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Ok, let me re-phrase my original post. I didn't mean they couldn't see me as if I vanished (otherwise they would be telling me while I'm on the bonnet of their car). I meant if they couldn't make out a horse and rider at a reasonable distance
 
Flame_ said:
This is an interesting thread.

I always wear hi viz and I'm glad its becoming more popular, but I'm joining the side that says OP its not your business to advise other road users how to dress and responsibility for crashing into (or not) more vulnerable road users lies with the motorists. I drive and ride and whilst driving have been surprised and annoyed to suddenly spot a dark horse and rider when hi viz would have given me more time to prepare to pass them, but I still think had I hit them or been unable to safely negotiate them, that would have been my fault for driving too fast and poor observation, not theirs just for being there, all be it unilluminated.
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Like
 
Flame_ said:
This is an interesting thread.

I always wear hi viz and I'm glad its becoming more popular, but I'm joining the side that says OP its not your business to advise other road users how to dress and responsibility for crashing into (or not) more vulnerable road users lies with the motorists. I drive and ride and whilst driving have been surprised and annoyed to suddenly spot a dark horse and rider when hi viz would have given me more time to prepare to pass them, but I still think had I hit them or been unable to safely negotiate them, that would have been my fault for driving too fast and poor observation, not theirs just for being there, all be it unilluminated.
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The post wasn't about whether I did or did not do the right thing, that was a decision that I made based on the fact that I couldn't bear to see this person and her horse injured. Interesting debate as I counted 17 posts supporting advising someone if they couldn't be seen as opposed to 6 people thinking it was wrong for a driver to be concerned about the welfare of a stranger and her horse.

I applaud you for being in the camp that wears high viz, you are giving yourself and your horse the very best chance of staying safe. x

I wonder what the legal situation is with regard to people not wearing hig viz, whether cycling, walking or riding on the roads and involved in an accident, does anyone know? I just wonder whether it has an impact on insurance cases where maybe the insurers look at (I'm not sure what the correct legal terminology would be) something like a "duty of care to oneself or animals they are in charge of?" Is there such a thing? x
 
I find this post quite peculiar as it was only a couple of weeks ago that AA posted about the same thing and advised the rider, and all the messages were fully supportive of her actions?
 
My nephews job requires him to wear hi viz at all times and he has so many he gave me about 20 jackets to keep in my car - I have before stopped to give to people! The one girl who I have one was extremely grateful 5 seconds later when a car came speeding round the bend only slowing due to that hi viz!
 
Luce85 said:
My nephews job requires him to wear hi viz at all times and he has so many he gave me about 20 jackets to keep in my car - I have before stopped to give to people! The one girl who I have one was extremely grateful 5 seconds later when a car came speeding round the bend only slowing due to that hi viz!
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Hehe I always keep spares in my car too due to mine and my OH's jobs, I've beenknown to give them out as well to joggers cyclists and riders! You know what they were gratefully received as well... I think good on Princess Rosie :)
 
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