Why I Won't Be Starting Horses Anymore: re Owners

Equilibrium Ireland

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To be honest it's a bit of a whine but for anyone that needs to send a horse away to be started you need to read.

I am fet up reading how horses have been ruined by bad horse starters. But when you get further details you realise the biggest consideration was who was cheapest. I have zero sympathy for you. You get what you pay for.

People worry about finding the best trainer for when they are riding their horse, the best tack, the best feed, the best practitioners ect but feel that having a properly started horse is a nuisance in the money department. You all will spend 50£ for a one hour lesson in addition to livery costs but cringe if someone says they charge 20£ a day for caring for your horse properly and sending you back a super going safe mount for you to enjoy. Oh and you want this super star of a horse going like a bombproof 15 YO in 4 weeks. By the way I don't even get the above mentioned figure as it's in euro and not even that in euro. But now I'm done and tired.

When you visit your horse with me, anytime you wish I might add, you will find a properly cleaned and bedded stable. Your horse gets free choice hay or haylage, your horse enjoys individual all day turnout, and a proper feed program. Clean water at all times ect. In short they get treated as my own and I have somewhat higher standards than just about anybody in this country anyway. I don't know how to do them any other way nor would I as it's not beneficial to the horse IMO.

So after sending back a pony, that came to us with unbelievable baggage, that is now riding very well, I will never do it again. A pony that when came to us couldn't be caught in the stable and would try and kill you. She spent the first 3 weeks trotting into the stable because we couldn't catch her. But I feel it's counter productive to leave one in 24/7 besides work. We just never made an issue of the catching thing. Funny enough she left here coming up to us every evening. Her owner decided that the bill was too high, less than 100 euros a week. I knew the guy that used to break his ponies, this one would have been dead after he got done beating the crap out of her. Won't go into details but you can trust me on that. So I'm done trying to make a difference for the horses and ponies when nobody really gives a fig.

For those of you with horses ready to be started, go to these places unannounced. Have a look everywhere. Look at what they feed, turnout, hay ect. Do not make price the biggest point in your decision. You want a solid horse that looks and acts well when they come back to you, then pay for it. Ask for references. I have plenty I can give though no one would give a crap. Put off expensive lessons or plans for just a few weeks. In the long run you'll be so thankful.

While to short a time is not beneficial for your horse, 3 months and not being sat on is taking the pee out of an owner. Plenty of bad breakers too obviously. That's why references are key.

Sorry, I needed to vent
Terri
 

A1fie

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So sorry to read this and hear how down you are feeling. Don't give up though - there will always be ar*eholes everywhere but there are also a lot of owners that do want to give their horses the best start in life. Just keep bu88ering on! :)
 

Equilibrium Ireland

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In all honesty have been doing this for 10 years. Took a break has husband was in Saudi. We are very much a team. This guy is a farmer that we get our straw from. Last year he sent me a 4yo Connie pony to start for his daughter. His daughter is in her early 20's and had a bad fall which shook her confidence badly. He wanted this pony for his daughter eventually. He asked if she would be riding her at the end. I said I didn't know and would be not making any guarantees. How could I? I said in the meantime she needs lessons or definitely not. I don't teach riding, I teach horses. At any rate what do you know that pony made her cry because she couldn't believe how good she was. In fairness it's a Connie and they're pretty rock solid but the pony was done the right way. I even had her voice commanded for a rider getting dangerously off balance. The pony would stop and patiently wait til you righted yourself. Just put in extra little safety mechanisms to make sure both horse and rider wouldn't lose confidence. Owner was over the moon.

Should also add that I pay for my straw when I get it and I do not stand there complaining it's too expensive. I think to myself he stores it, it cost him to make so I don't see reason to quivel on price. But with horses, no matter what you do, people fail to realise you do need paid for your time. It is a job. No the attitude is you love horses so it's ok to gyp you here and there. I did not see it coming with this guy because first pony was never questioned on price and that's at less than half of what we used to do it for. Not having to depend on it for a living was nicer. I get that the economy is crap but nothing else is cheaper. Hay, straw, feed, they've all increased.

Anyway, Bleh, can't really bother my arse anymore.

Terri
 

TBB

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I know what you mean, when I was at it, the day they were backed they would stand at a mounting block and ride away and go out for a hack with no problems. Day 2 they would happily hack out alone and on Day 3 you could open gates off of them!:D The prep work was done and they were taken quietly (none ever bucked with the surcingle first time) and gradually and if I felt they needed to go back a step they did and so I never had to fight with them. The results were laid back, safe sensible horses and being told I took far too long!! :eek: Maybe I did, but thats the way I did them and so I gave up doing them for anyone other than myself.:D
 

Arizahn

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OP, I would send a horse to you in a heartbeat. I would far rather spend the money on the horse's initial training and have something safe to ride, than struggle to stay on something unsafe in an expensive lesson!
Besides, if the horse is sane and obedient, then the rider can get in more practice outside of lessons too, since they won't need someone on the ground to be able to ride.

Whereabouts are you based? In case Hippo ever needs a refresher course...:D
 

Kaylum

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My friend did just that. Reputable breaker, a few had used her and one person had been on her yard for years.

So she sent her horse to her. She got a phone call after 3 weeks to say her horse was dangerous. But apparently the woman had not even been on him, had hit him, and was having an affair so couldnt be bothered to even start backing him as her personal life had taken over her business.

So there are two sides to every story. Like everything I am afraid.

My friend decided to do things herself and got a good instructor to help her after her was returned a wreck. Made a lovely horse and she does dressage with him now.
 

OldNag

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OP, I would send a horse to you in a heartbeat. I would far rather spend the money on the horse's initial training and have something safe to ride, than struggle to stay on something unsafe in an expensive lesson!
Besides, if the horse is sane and obedient, then the rider can get in more practice outside of lessons too, since they won't need someone on the ground to be able to ride.

LIKE!
 

Arizahn

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Hippo was well schooled at some point but barely ridden for five years before I got her. So I actually am thinking of having her restarted professionally. Something to think about over the summer...
 

Littlelegs

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I know exactly where you're coming from op. The other one is when the horse has supposedly had plenty of groundwork & is ready for breaking, but in actual fact its barely halter broken & has had 3 years of bad manners enforced & they quibble when you say its not going to be a schoolmaster in 3 weeks. Or a 4 yr old that's been backed lightly at home & needs bringing on, when in actual fact they mean 'i sat on it in my mates tack & had my first ever attempt at lunging with it & it didn't go well, also it has a mouth of iron as I've taught it no manners so I lead in a bridle & hold onto its mouth permanently'
I no longer work with horses, so just do my own & close friends in exchange for other favours. But i'm regularly asked by local cheapskates to break or school theirs for free cos 'professionals are a rip off' you can guess my response.
Just try & focus on the pleasure you get from the horses & remember all the nice people you've met. And quibble over the price of your next load of straw!
 

JFTDWS

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Unfortunately life isn't fair and some people are chancers (and worse too, but TFC would tell me off for saying it on here!). Any service you provide to the public leaves you open to them making nuisances of themselves.

I start my own as I don't trust other people and it's so hard to tell the sensible ones from the rest. I don't think I could hand over control to someone else, but if I were to, I wouldn't be getting it done on the cheap by any old person. I don't understand that mentality - there are plenty of ruined or slightly damaged ponies out there already, why add to their ranks?
 

PennyJ

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Aww Terri, that's rubbish, I can imagine how fed up you are. All that work and effort for his daughter to have an especially safe confidence giving pony and then to behave like that. Any chance you can change to a different straw supplier?
 

Arizahn

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Agree JFTD. I'd be happy to pay for someone with good references...I'd still be checking up every day, wanting to know how things were progressing though! Could never just send her off without knowing what was going on.
 

Miss L Toe

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It is difficult to find someone to break a horse, for that reason I do it myself, but with very easy horses, and once backed and so on, I send them to learn transitions for education, I would rather use someone who is currently competing, as they are riding every day, and that is the difference, they know how a horse should behave.
I fear that the majority of horse owners have no idea how to handle young horses, and will get in to trouble if horse proves at all less than amenable, they buy "horses with potential"...sadly, the vendor is getting rid of a horse he knows will be difficult to break, sometimes he has already tried, and failed.
I agree with the person on exactly how much work/time will be spent every day with the horse, otherwise one can be paying for the horse to stand in its stable. Obviously I would be looking at the type of horse they have at home.
I would also pay for extra bedding!
A senior BHS Instructor said to me, keep less clients and charge them more, in the long run it is a business/job.
 
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Equinus

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I'm so sorry you are been given a hard time. I don't understand people, you have to pay to take a breath these days, surely it is a small price to pay for someone to risk injury to make a horse rideable for those less able.

I bought a horse last year, we know nothing about him except that he has not been ridden for a year and his age (11) and at my...ahem...advanced age and with arthritis there is no way I was going to get on him! After waiting for his infected feet to grow out and asking and asking for recommendations for someone to re-start him, he has now been at "boarding school" a week, and despite being a lovely natured boy, he has already decked the trainer once, so I reckon what I am paying is very well deserved...I am mortified that my lovely boy has done this. (paying more than 20 euros a day, and providing feed!) He is there for at least another week, and it is certainly the best decision, he is riding like a just-backed baby, if I had not done this he would have been a really expensive field ornament. Although I have bought three year olds in the past and backed them myself, now I am older I accept my limitations (and they are many!)

So I hope you don't give up, us ordinary non-penny-pinching folk need people like you. So many people have said they will get on the horse for me, and I am so glad I stuck to my guns. I can, and do, visit whenever I want for a chat and a cup of tea (only place I have drunk tea in 20 years) or just to spend time with my boy if he is not in the field with his playmate.

I appreciate my trainer!
 

Ibblebibble

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I can understand perfectly your frustrations OP , anyone who provides a service does so at their own peril!! My OH is self employed and has had people start quibbling the bill after the job has been completed, it's life I'm afraid:(
From the other side of the coin regarding breaking and schooling, unsurprisingly all the trainers etc portray themselves as the good guys, they can all give good references, all tell you 10 reasons why their method/ facilities/price is the one to suit you and all promise a level of pony/horse you can only dream of at the end of the time period.;) Not a single one is going to say 'well we beat and starve the horses into submission then chuck our heaviest rider on so they can't throw them off , chase them up and down a lane a couple of times and job done'!!;)
 

JFTDWS

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Agree JFTD. I'd be happy to pay for someone with good references...I'd still be checking up every day, wanting to know how things were progressing though! Could never just send her off without knowing what was going on.

I'm such a cocky sod I wouldn't even trust good refs. I think I would have to have watched them produce a few from start to finish and then come and watch everything they did with my horse :cool: But I am a control freak and I have very strict ideas about what's acceptable and what isn't... Nobody in their right minds would want to start a horse for me :eek:
 

Archangel

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How frustrating, some people, glad to say not all, will always be ungrateful beggars.

My two original horses came straight from their breeders, they had not been broken, but all the groundwork had been done so well that they were set up for life (their whole lives with me in fact :)). They were both always going to be little stars, but each had enough about them for it all to go badly wrong if not handled appropriately and their talent allowed to blossom.

So hats off to everyone who gives horses the sort of grounding that sets them up for life :cool::)
 

Miss L Toe

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Agree JFTD. I'd be happy to pay for someone with good references...I'd still be checking up every day, wanting to know how things were progressing though! Could never just send her off without knowing what was going on.
Many people have busy lives and this is why they send horse off to be broken, but each horse is an individual, there may be problems, which have to be slowly sorted out, not masked over.
You have to have confidence in the trainer to do the job, there will be good days and not so good, it is a case of steady progress.
PS OP, don't give up, just make sure you take on clients who want to work with you, and preferably understand "they are not machines"
The weekly charge should be agreed in advance, but not all horses will be ready after a few weeks, some may need considerable extra training.
I know of one mare who has been sent to be broken, after eight weeks, it is still a timebomb, what does one do now?
 
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Miss L Toe

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How frustrating, some people, glad to say not all, will always be ungrateful beggars.

My two original horses came straight from their breeders, they had not been broken, but all the groundwork had been done so well that they were set up for life (their whole lives with me in fact :)). They were both always going to be little stars, but each had enough about them for it all to go badly wrong if not handled appropriately and their talent allowed to blossom.

So hats off to everyone who gives horses the sort of grounding that sets them up for life :cool::)
^^^^LIKE^^^^
 

Marydoll

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To be honest it's a bit of a whine but for anyone that needs to send a horse away to be started you need to read.

I am fet up reading how horses have been ruined by bad horse starters. But when you get further details you realise the biggest consideration was who was cheapest. I have zero sympathy for you. You get what you pay for.

People worry about finding the best trainer for when they are riding their horse, the best tack, the best feed, the best practitioners ect but feel that having a properly started horse is a nuisance in the money department. You all will spend 50£ for a one hour lesson in addition to livery costs but cringe if someone says they charge 20£ a day for caring for your horse properly and sending you back a super going safe mount for you to enjoy. Oh and you want this super star of a horse going like a bombproof 15 YO in 4 weeks. By the way I don't even get the above mentioned figure as it's in euro and not even that in euro. But now I'm done and tired.

When you visit your horse with me, anytime you wish I might add, you will find a properly cleaned and bedded stable. Your horse gets free choice hay or haylage, your horse enjoys individual all day turnout, and a proper feed program. Clean water at all times ect. In short they get treated as my own and I have somewhat higher standards than just about anybody in this country anyway. I don't know how to do them any other way nor would I as it's not beneficial to the horse IMO.

So after sending back a pony, that came to us with unbelievable baggage, that is now riding very well, I will never do it again. A pony that when came to us couldn't be caught in the stable and would try and kill you. She spent the first 3 weeks trotting into the stable because we couldn't catch her. But I feel it's counter productive to leave one in 24/7 besides work. We just never made an issue of the catching thing. Funny enough she left here coming up to us every evening. Her owner decided that the bill was too high, less than 100 euros a week. I knew the guy that used to break his ponies, this one would have been dead after he got done beating the crap out of her. Won't go into details but you can trust me on that. So I'm done trying to make a difference for the horses and ponies when nobody really gives a fig.

For those of you with horses ready to be started, go to these places unannounced. Have a look everywhere. Look at what they feed, turnout, hay ect. Do not make price the biggest point in your decision. You want a solid horse that looks and acts well when they come back to you, then pay for it. Ask for references. I have plenty I can give though no one would give a crap. Put off expensive lessons or plans for just a few weeks. In the long run you'll be so thankful.

While to short a time is not beneficial for your horse, 3 months and not being sat on is taking the pee out of an owner. Plenty of bad breakers too obviously. That's why references are key.

Sorry, I needed to vent
Terri

I find this quite a sad post tbh.
You sound like youre providing exctly the type of start all horses should be given. i think the problem is that some folks dont appreciate that correct starting and the work that goes on in the beginning makes the horse, or sadly breaks the horse, if not done properly,and that to get this you need to put in time effort and energy, a good starter is worth their weight in gold imo and If youre providing what you say, youre exactly that.
You sound like youre just a bit pee'd off ..... Tommorrow is another day :D
Dont let the barstewards get you down :D:D
 

Arizahn

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I don't know enough to try starting a horse:D Am paranoid enough to run background checks and turn up uninvited before sending horse away to trainer though...

Actually, when we got Hippo, I wanted to get professional help restarting her. I was going to ask a trainer to come and assess her. My current YO told me that it would be a ridiculous waste of money, as the trainer I wanted was expensive and I don't plan to be a professional competition type rider. I was too embarrassed to disagree, as it is her yard.

It is still something I think about doing. I think Hippo would benefit from it. I did contact the trainer and she gave me some pointers on groundwork/manners, etc. Very nice lady. I would quite like to ask her to come out to our new yard and assess Hippo properly. In fact, I think I shall!
 

JFTDWS

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I don't know enough to try starting a horse:D Am paranoid enough to run background checks and turn up uninvited before sending horse away to trainer though...

Actually, when we got Hippo, I wanted to get professional help restarting her. I was going to ask a trainer to come and assess her. My current YO told me that it would be a ridiculous waste of money, as the trainer I wanted was expensive and I don't plan to be a professional competition type rider. I was too embarrassed to disagree, as it is her yard.

It is still something I think about doing. I think Hippo would benefit from it. I did contact the trainer and she gave me some pointers on groundwork/manners, etc. Very nice lady. I would quite like to ask her to come out to our new yard and assess Hippo properly. In fact, I think I shall!

You should, if you feel it would help you.

Your YO seems to be of the same opinion as me - I am terrified of "good" trainers as a general rule as I can't imagine what they would think of me on my little pony and they must surely presume me to be a total waste of space and time. However, I genuinely believe this is insane and no sensible person should delude themselves with such an idea. Alas, I am not sensible enough to take my own advice...
 

Littlelegs

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Any good yard is more than happy to have owners come & get involved, if your working with someones horse then its all to the good if they want to come & watch each day. Nothing wrong with breaking them at home, its when the clueless do it badly, spend a few years getting bad schooling entrenched & run into a problem. Then they get miffed that the trainer 'can't just get it to stop x in 30 mins' & need to go back to basics instead.
 

Arizahn

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Don't put yourself down JFTD:)

I suspect my YO was more worried that I would want to keep my horse elsewhere for six weeks or more! Also the trainer has a livery yard, so kind of a business rival, I guess...

Given that the trainer is even further away than current yard, I wasn't intending on moving there permanently, but sometimes it's easier not to argue:eek:
 

Arizahn

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Any good yard is more than happy to have owners come & get involved, if your working with someones horse then its all to the good if they want to come & watch each day. Nothing wrong with breaking them at home, its when the clueless do it badly, spend a few years getting bad schooling entrenched & run into a problem. Then they get miffed that the trainer 'can't just get it to stop x in 30 mins' & need to go back to basics instead.

Cool, I could learn along with Hippo!
 

Littlelegs

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Jftd- no good trainer would think badly of you for being on a pony. My 14.2 & 5'10 me never got any, even in the years I spent working & keeping her on good yards. Just made her little pony head look cuter alongside all the warmbloods & tbs!
 

Equinus

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Don't put yourself down JFTD:)

I suspect my YO was more worried that I would want to keep my horse elsewhere for six weeks or more! Also the trainer has a livery yard, so kind of a business rival, I guess...

Given that the trainer is even further away than current yard, I wasn't intending on moving there permanently, but sometimes it's easier not to argue:eek:

Still paying full whack for livery on home yard, including hay which I am not there to use. Wouldn't occur to me not to.
 

Arizahn

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Still paying full whack for livery on home yard, including hay which I am not there to use. Wouldn't occur to me not to.

Yes, I had expected that this would be what I would do too. I even mentioned it to my YO, as I didn't want her thinking I wasn't going to pay her for while I was away!

With hindsight, I need to be more assertive...
 

JFTDWS

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Jftd- no good trainer would think badly of you for being on a pony. My 14.2 & 5'10 me never got any, even in the years I spent working & keeping her on good yards. Just made her little pony head look cuter alongside all the warmbloods & tbs!

The logical side of my brain totally agrees. The illogical part screams "you're just a muppet on a pony" repeatedly until the logical part gives up :D

Don't put yourself down JFTD:)

I suspect my YO was more worried that I would want to keep my horse elsewhere for six weeks or more! Also the trainer has a livery yard, so kind of a business rival, I guess...

Given that the trainer is even further away than current yard, I wasn't intending on moving there permanently, but sometimes it's easier not to argue:eek:

Not putting myself down really, being realistic - I think it's highly unlikely my highland will ever take me round Badminton or ride a GP test :D As if 90% of the warmblood owners they teach are ever going to do that either :rolleyes:

Logistically may depend on how easy it is to get her on the truck to get to the new yard then :eek: Otherwise you may find her stuck at trainers forever :D YOs can be a bit... interesting ;)
 
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