Why I Won't Be Starting Horses Anymore: re Owners

Littlelegs

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My pony was never going to be on the Olympic team, but I always got a positive reaction that getting the best out of her was a better achievement than doing the same level on a horse that should have been going a lot higher. Only grief I ever got was from pony club mums wanting to buy her!
 

JFTDWS

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My pony was never going to be on the Olympic team, but I always got a positive reaction that getting the best out of her was a better achievement than doing the same level on a horse that should have been going a lot higher. Only grief I ever got was from pony club mums wanting to buy her!

Again the logical side of my brain agrees... I think the illogical side is only there to prevent me from ever having to ride in front of someone who I respect :D
 

Lark

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Terri I totally get where you are coming from.
Par for course in Ireland right now. People want something for nothing.
Stick to your guns, there are 2 markets, cheap low quality vs more expensive high quality.
Set your standards and deal with only those who appreciate a high quality service.
Believe me they are still about over here.

We run a livery yard. Some yards now are charging €80 quid a week full livery, as far as we are concerned we could never compete with that, nor do we want to, as the quality of service and facility is what we focus on.
Would €80 quid a week see us out checking, haying and skipping out at 10pm at night..nope not a hope.
It is difficult not to become totally disullussioned at the moment but hold your ground, set your standard and your price and the cheap skates will be filltered out.

The very best of luck, it sounds like you do a job that is pretty much priceless!
 

luckyoldme

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Terri,
this is not just starting horses it is business as a whole.
I posted on here a while back about a customer of mine who wanted more work done for less money in a quicker time .
It astounded me the variety of replies from all sorts of businesses who had experienced the same thing.
Im sure you have brilliant customers who appreciate what you do but the ones that hurt are the ones you go the extra mile for only to receive unjustified criticism.
You can spot these ones a mile off and they cost you more than you make. the advice given from people a lot more qualified to me was overquote and get rid!
I had known this customer was going to a be a pain from the word go... and when the next one came along i followed the advice given on here.. much less anguish!
 

Equilibrium Ireland

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Guys, wow, thank you!

I also get the owners side of the coin as well. This is why I encourage dropping by anytime you like to see your horse. If you want to see them working just give me a call the day before. Only because I can't guess. I want you to ride your horse before he goes. I want to hide nothing because it's the only way I feel I can assure people of what I do.

As for dirty horses in stables, they couldn't be worse than 2 of my girls! LOL! So no one ever need to bring extra bedding. I get that we can't choose to have a clean or messy one. I don't penalise said horse.

As far as not trusting me or anyone, I so get that. Part of my motivation in trying to be so open, but, I had a mare in jumper training last year. She was nearly ruined. My theory was that I had to let go and trust people a bit and that I wasn't the only one that could care for a horse. Epic Fail! Like JFTD, believe me I get that side of the coin.

To the poster who's friend had her horse ruined and was told he was dangerous. So sorry. I've yet to come across one that was dangerous. That pony that just left us could have been considered dangerous. She was defensive and didn't know any better. We just kept believing in her and taking steps back if needed. Horses by nature love to learn and do not find the breaking process scary. They have no reason for fear unless given one.

Trust me I hate the people who say they start horses and 3 months later they're giving you stupid excuses why Neddy is still on the lunge with no hint of being gotten on. Or the ones who won't let you near the place, say he's broke, and then announce they need time off to process. While I do give my own breaks, I most certainly won't be sending one back to their owner that hasn't ridden them a few times.

Lark, yeah I get you on the pricing. A friend of mine wanted her jumper mare to come live with me. I asked her what she was wanting to pay for full livery including light schooling on the flat. Her reply was well if you had an indoor as well then maybe 80 euros. Um ok. Well I don't have an indoor and that's ridiculous!

Going out to ride my jumper mare. Too much frost early so wanted to wait til afternoon with the warm beautiful sun!

Terri
 

honetpot

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Last year I paid £1200 to have one backed. We had long lined him, lunged him, had a saddle on, and sat on him the previous year and as he was a very kind quiet boy who had been out and about expected for him to have a couple of weeks refresher and then backed. All I wanted for him was to able to walk and trot round the school, basic leg aids and a hack with another down the road.
My friend who usually helps was pregant and I didn't want to put pressure on her in any way so I sent him to someone that was recomended by someone I thought knew their stuff.
When we went to collect him he could barely walk in a straight line or go forward from the leg at all. I could have cryed. I do not have a fancy school, or smart stables but I could have do far better with not so clued up teenager comming after school.
They seem to either want to rush them, I always pay up front and say take as long as you like,or they end up with there heads on their chest going backwards.
The last one I did my self I did all the ground work and then I got a racing jockey to ride it away as they do not fiddle and you end up with an animal thats interested in its enviroment and happy to go forward. I also hate the obession in drilling them in a school, it like trying to teach a small child algbra when it can hardly count to ten.
So I would love to find someone to back my youngsters I could trust but I would look at what they did and how they did it not the stables and the yard. I have learned my lesson.
 

PapaFrita

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I feel your pain OP :( In Argentina methods of backing are, to put it kindly, forceful and IMO archaic. Horses are expected to be naughty, buck, and generally resist until they are 'broken'. Not what I ever wanted for LC, so I decided to do it myself. Aside from the occasional minor hiccup (probably my own fault; he's the first I've started from scratch, though have worked with a lot of young horses before) It's been very straightforward, but then he HAS been handled from birth and it's taken TIME and PATIENCE. I don't have a deadline. Everyone keeps telling me; "Oh, it's easy; you did all the groundwork when he was little" Well, yes, that's the whole point, isn't it? And if it's sooo blimming easy, how come YOU'RE not doing it like this?? Anyway, that's my rant; if you're not falling off and/or getting trampled on, it's 'easy' and therefore anyone can do it. Explains a lot, doesn't it? :(
 

Roasted Chestnuts

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One of the reasons why i will be starting my own the next time. Least then Its only me to blame ;)

OP I sympathise fully. Dont give up as Id imagine you have had more sucess stories than ********s in the last how ever many years and Im sure a good few of yours have went on to do very well.
 

1t34

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I had my very lovely horse professionally started the schooled on - it was expensive (about £800 a month for a year), but now I have a super horse who can turn his hoof to anything at a fairly reasonable level. However I do tend to agree with PF, its the time that people underestimate. A 5 year old can be just as tricky, even more so sometimes than a newly started 3/4 year old. Someone who is experienced and knowledgeable about what they do should expect to be recompensed appropriately for a job well done.

Its interesting though to juxtaposition this with the economy at the moment and how people feel unable/unwilling to pay for things as money is tight. Its interesting that parents won't pay for well qualified childcare staff - to 'start' and educate their children and that there is little outcry, even some vitriol, for the huge cuts to public services that support elderly people, those with a learning disability or vulnerable children.

What's the phrase 'you can judge a society by how it treats its most vulnerable' whether that be appreciating (and paying appropriately) for starting horses, children or our vulnerable people.
 

JingleTingle

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OP I feel your pain. I am also in your part of the world and it must be soul destroying trying to earn your living as you do. And to produce well rounded and sane young stock for demanding clients, that will expect the perfect horse returned to them within the month, and give you rock bottom euros for your trouble.:mad:

I have an 'acquaintance' (once a friend but on the long arm now:() who earns her living with breakers. She is never without horses to break for people, she usually turns them around within 4 weeks, usually a maximum of 6. Her charges are among the lowest in our part of the world.

A couple of months back she was telling me about a young cob she was breaking for a client. It apparently was not happy at all being asked to go forward despite all her best efforts he just planted. Out came the piping, still he planted. Then she laughed as she told me that herself and the yard owner then tried with the piping with the brass plumbing fixings still attached, still he planted.:mad: She laughed again and said by the time they had 'opened his hide' he had learnt to go forward.:eek: Said she wasnt worried as the owner was abroad for a few weeks and any scaring she would tell him was from a hiding in the field. I felt ill, unsurprisingly she is no longer on my friends list.

In this culture OP you are a ray of light, but sadly tis very dim and almost unseen amongst the ignorant and uneducated. I despair, I do not tar all horse people here with that brush, but a huge majority I do. :(
 

JanetGeorge

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The weekly charge should be agreed in advance, but not all horses will be ready after a few weeks, some may need considerable extra training.
I know of one mare who has been sent to be broken, after eight weeks, it is still a timebomb, what does one do now?

If you have faith in the trainer - and believe that the horse is the problem - then you have two choices! Pay for more time - or shoot the horse! (Or if you're particularly dim, breed from her! :rolleyes: )

I have one mare here who has taken 5 months!! :eek: The owner has been fantastic - I have kept her informed about the problems every step of the way. I DID reduce the weekly rate - partly because it WAS an exceptionally long job - but also because it was immensely interesting for us! She is now ready to go home!

She had a myriad of problems (none the fault of the owner I hasten to add!) And she was worth the trouble and expense (I hope!) - she is a stunning mare!

I always tell clients how much we charge per week - and the 'average' time it takes - but I also stress that every horse is an individual and will take as long as it needs. If the owner is NOT prepared to accept that, then I suggest they go elsewhere! Maybe I've been lucky, but the vast majority of my clients have been sensible - and appreciative!
 

Marydoll

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OP I feel your pain. I am also in your part of the world and it must be soul destroying trying to earn your living as you do. And to produce well rounded and sane young stock for demanding clients, that will expect the perfect horse returned to them within the month, and give you rock bottom euros for your trouble.:mad:

I have an 'acquaintance' (once a friend but on the long arm now:() who earns her living with breakers. She is never without horses to break for people, she usually turns them around within 4 weeks, usually a maximum of 6. Her charges are among the lowest in our part of the world.

A couple of months back she was telling me about a young cob she was breaking for a client. It apparently was not happy at all being asked to go forward despite all her best efforts he just planted. Out came the piping, still he planted. Then she laughed as she told me that herself and the yard owner then tried with the piping with the brass plumbing fixings still attached, still he planted.:mad: She laughed again and said by the time they had 'opened his hide' he had learnt to go forward.:eek: Said she wasnt worried as the owner was abroad for a few weeks and any scaring she would tell him was from a hiding in the field. I felt ill, unsurprisingly she is no longer on my friends list.

In this culture OP you are a ray of light, but sadly tis very dim and almost unseen amongst the ignorant and uneducated. I despair, I do not tar all horse people here with that brush, but a huge majority I do. :(

Sorry but i find this disgusting, its a pity the poor horse never kicked the crap out of them, if this was mine i couldnt keep my hands of them id be in about them with the same piping and beat the crap outta them vicious barstewards
 

sonjafoers

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Terri I completely agree with you and I'm somebody who chose the wrong person to back & start my baby. It wasn't a decision based on price but I'd never had a horse backed before and I went on a recommendation from my YO who I trusted.

Without going into too much detail I began to worry about what was going on when I turned up one day & the trainer said my horse had dumped him on his head the previous day & he never gets dumped. He was very angry & aggressive in his manner about this & warning bells started to ring about whether he had been physically aggressive with her.

After she returned home I turned her away for the winter but when it came to start her again months later he refused to take my calls even though the original price I paid included the cost of him doing 3 more weeks work with her after she had been turned away. I tried to get hold of him for weeks & in the end had to send her somewhere else where the very professional & gentle lady there said she couldn't believe she'd ever been backed. It then cost me a lot of money to get her done properly which I don't begrudge at all btw.

I will feel guilty forever at the bad start I unwittingly gave her and if I could have found someone who gives them the start you seem to give I wouldn't care how much it cost.
 

JingleTingle

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Sorry but i find this disgusting, its a pity the poor horse never kicked the crap out of them, if this was mine i couldnt keep my hands of them id be in about them with the same piping and beat the crap outta them vicious barstewards

Marydoll it is disgusting, it was not my horse, but that did not make my anger any less at the whole sorry tale. Unfortunately I am rather ancient now - and doing anything physical to give the people in question a taste of their own medicine is quite beyond me!:eek:

However, they did feel the extremely sharp side of my tongue, but I doubt that would change the way they do things do you?

I agree though, if I was 40 years younger they both will have found themselves with the imprint of the brass fitting in their backsides, I can assure you of that!:(
 

Marydoll

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Marydoll it is disgusting, it was not my horse, but that did not make my anger any less at the whole sorry tale. Unfortunately I am rather ancient now - and doing anything physical to give the people in question a taste of their own medicine is quite beyond me!:eek:

However, they did feel the extremely sharp side of my tongue, but I doubt that would change the way they do things do you?

I agree though, if I was 40 years younger they both will have found themselves with the imprint of the brass fitting in their backsides, I can assure you of that!:(

Pushes like button
 

Equilibrium Ireland

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Grumpyoldmare, unfortunately that isn't an isolated incident. I know someone that keeps horses for 6 weeks and sends them back just being sat on as broken and riding. Tells them to give horse a few months off so then it's not his problem anymore. And woe be the horse that gives him any issues, it gets more than a heavy hand.

If I have a horse that does not know how to go forward, it is my fault. End of story. They do not get beat. Sure every now and again you have one that pushes boundries the same as you do with youngsters on the ground pushing boundries. But dealing with them firmly and knowing they know what you asked does not require beating.

If I'm to take anymore than my prices are going to be in line with the job I do. And it's going to be 4 weeks up front. The rest when we are finished. No deals. I had my mare in jumper training and paid up front every month.

At any rate, thank you guys for the whine. I really needed to vent.

Terri
 
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