Why not just ban horseracing ?

[puddicat]

Horseracing combines the vice of gambling with the anachronistic human habit of subjecting animals to unnatuaral activities purely for their enjoyment. There is a clear distinction between companion animals, which may also be considered as living in captivity for the pleasure of humans and horseracing in that companion animals are not forced to engage in an activity which will frequenty lead to their injury not infrequently to their destruction. So 11 horses died at last year's Cheltenham Festival (6 in one day) And one death into this year's event the RSPCA is calling for welfare to be a top priority. Well here's a thought, if you want to stop horse deaths stop racing. Then you wouldn't need the hypocracy of having organisations like the RSPCA and ILPH caring for horses while a whole industry uses them as commodities for profit. Liking horseracing requires a great British doublethink where you quietly ignore the inconvenient unpleasant and choose the image of horseracing as the sport of Kings, glamorous, and of course the horses enjoy it and there are really only relatively few deaths per annum. Yeah OK now just ask yourself "why should be doing anything that results in the death of an animal when the net purpose of the activity is nothing more than the entertainment of humans" so many excuses come to mind for why horseracing 'is different' that you've got to ask youself the several times before you escape the conventions of society and realise it's a pretty good question.

 

[JM07]

too much of an economic vacuum to fill to be given a blanket ban.

 

[puddicat]

I'm sure you're right, it's something like the sixth largest industry in the UK by value (can't remeber exactly but I'm sure somebody on here knows)...

 

[Onyxia]

Any animal dying of anything other then extreme old age is saddening but it happens.
Before you can call racing cruell you need t look at the bigger picture, how many sustain injurys leading to them being PTS in showjumping/in the field/hunting ect.
I would bet if you look at it as a percentage racing is no higher then any other sport.

 

[0]

Ok, so if racing were to be banned, what do you propose should happen to all of the horses?

 

[Spot1]

Enter the moral maze

To what extent should we be allowed to risk our own safety, particularly if this could impact on others? If we can agree that some risk is unavoidable then a certain level of risk could be deemed acceptable indeed natural. Then to what extent would we be justified in asking others to take risks, in the case of an animal we are in a fairly strong position to dictate. Some peoples nature is that they fear more for the safety of there horse than they do for themselves, some do not. Nature is intrinsically cruel, a fact missed by the "natural this", "natural that" advertising bumph, what about "natural selection"? Having said that we have come along way from the plains of Africa, perhaps our race tracks will one day be viewed as the Colosseum is now. I consider welfare issues to be a high priority and there are lots of aspects, from ignorance to exploitation, that do need to be tackled.

[ QUOTE ]
"why should be doing anything that results in the death of an animal when the net purpose of the activity is nothing more than the entertainment of humans"

[/ QUOTE ]

could it be O.K. to eat meat providing you didn't enjoy it? Sorry

I'm just imagining only underweight serious minded people being allowed to hold diner parties

 

[Fantasy_World]

I would never call for a ban on horse racing. I don't find it to be cruel in any way. Yes horses get killed it is a very sad fact of life and some deaths have had me in tears as I have known connections as well or have followed the horse ( gambling for a period of time and have had an affinity with the horse).
I agree with what anima said though regarding horses used in other sports and I would hazard a guess that figures of deaths caused through injury of horses competing in any sphere may be similar by the ratio of deaths to runners.
Horse racing may cause more deaths but that is largely due to the numbers of horses racing and venues and races etc.
A greater numbers of horses taking part in any one sport than another is bound to result in a higher numbers of deaths, just because there are more horses at risk.
Any horse is at risk of being killed or suffering an injury too severe to be saved.
Hell only a few months ago one of my best friend's lost a horse after it fell in its field and had to be pts. Another friend lost her's the same way, although a different injury ( shattered its leg) it still meant the animal was destroyed.
To single out horse racing is pretty unfair to be honest.
I can think of thousands of horses that are literally worked to death, beaten and starved worldwide all by man either for profit, food, ignorance of welfare or poverty.
Most racehorses are the best cared for animals in the world.
Ok so they work for their keep and try to win prizemoney for owners etc but you do not hear of many neglect cases in the sport, compared to cruelty cases involving an average owner.
They are fed a balanced diet, have well cared for feet, are groomed tirelessly by grooms who live for those horses. Exercised correctly, have regular injections, dentals and back checks amongst the many treatments they are offered these days including spas.
I am sure if you said to the thousands of ( racing)grooms up and down the country your sport is cruel and the horse you are looking after should not be racing I know what their reply would be.
During time spent as a punter and as a racing journalist and as a friend to owners and trainers I have seen first hand the welfare of horses both on and off the track.
Yes I have witnessed two or three fatalities first hand but I would never have said to connections you are cruel people and you should not be racing that animal.
Racehorses work for a living and while I would admit that a few do slip through the net during their careers and end up as a welfare case the vast majority lead long and very happy lives.
Those that fall and are killed at the track or even on the gallops die enjoy doing something they enjoy.
If a horse did not want to race it will not. Horses that run out, refuse or pull themselves up are clear examples of that.
I have never seen an unhappy racehorse, maybe a tired one or two but not unhappy.
As a horse owner myself now and someone who has experienced horses since the age of six I think I can judge whether or not a horse is happy and when it is not.
I have seen unhappy horses ( alone in fields or a stable and clearly missing equine or human company) and those which are obviously in pain etc as they do exhibit physical signs.
I have seen racehorses in pain first hand, from tying up to a bad overreach etc.
The point I am trying to make is that I would never want horseracing banned as for one I enjoy it too much and I'm almost sure the horses do too.
As Jem rightly states what would happen to all the horses?
It is also worth remembering that without horse racing the modern day horse would not have existed. In particular the thoroughbred as their existance was born purely out of racing.

The term Thoroughbred describes a breed of horse whose ancestry traces back to three foundation sires -- the Darley Arabian, the Godolphin Arabian and the Byerly Turk. Named after their respective owners -- Thomas Darley, Lord Godolphin and Captain Robert Byerly -- these three stallions were brought to England from the Mediterranean Middle East around the turn of the 17th century and bred to the stronger, but less precocious, native horse. The result was an animal that could carry weight with sustained speed over extended distances, qualities which brought a new dimension to the burgeoning, aristocratically supported, sport of horse racing.

Caroline

 

[GTs]

Your comments are opinion rich and fact poor. I suggest you go to a racing yard, and learn a little bit about racing, and I am sure if most people here did they would be at awe with the quality of care these horses get. Not only will find a number of skilled horseman, who genuinely care for their horses, you will find an industry who spends millions of dollars annually into improving conditions, making racing safer, research of injuries (prevention and treatment), etc. It is safe to say most advances in equine medicine stemmed from the money racing has poured into it.

Racing does have it's risks - but so does a horse's life. I do not believe riding a horse on the road is safe, cross country courses are certainly not, dressage with forcing horses to 'engage' their back end has sent the number of hock injections soaring. So what should we do - make all our horses wild where the life expectancy is SIGNIFICANTLY shorter than the domesticated horse.

I view racing as natural for horses - the wild horses I have seen in the US often race each other - I have yet to see one execute a dressage test, go jumping, or do parelli.

To me the biggest risk to horses these days are neurotic horse owners, who are clearly incapable of providing any aspect of proper horse care - yet claim they love their horse as if grew in their uterus.

 

[JadeWisc]

[ QUOTE ]
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To me the biggest risk to horses these days are neurotic horse owners, who are clearly incapable of providing any aspect of proper horse care - yet claim they love their horse as if grew in their uterus.

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WAHAHAHAH! I think I just choked on my gum laughing!

 

[0]

Spotties is not saying that racing should be banned.
It is Pudicat who has made the sweeping statements with no facts to back them up.

 

[0]

[ QUOTE ]
WAHAHAHAH! I think I just choked on my gum laughing!

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the highlight was the picture in my mind of a wild horse doing a dressage test!!

 

[JadeWisc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WAHAHAHAH! I think I just choked on my gum laughing!

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the highlight was the picture in my mind of a wild horse doing a dressage test!!

[/ QUOTE ]

that part was when I fell off my chair!

 

[Tia]

He's blooming right though isn't he!

 

[PaddyMonty]

**Stands back and lobs spanner in to the works**
The real issue with flat racing is not the deaths on the course, it is the % of horses that never make it to the track in the first place through injury during early training or growth deformity. Now add in all the horses that sustain injury (not through falls) during racing and it adds up to a staggering number of horses.
Wetherbys' keep records of all injuries to racehorses, by course, by trainer and include ground conditions at the time of injury. I seriously doubt these figures will ever be published. The public out cry would be horrendous.
I only know this as in my early years in IT I worked with the person that developed the database for them. I did once know the figures but cant recall them accurately enough to publish on open forum. Suffice to say I sytrongly disagree with flat racing.
If only they would stop racing 2/3 yo the figures would drop dramatically. Figures for jump racing are significantly better which I believe is mainly due to the horses being started much later.
I dont think I would want to see it banned. I just wish they would stop the stupidity of racing horses so young.
Just think of the backlash some one would get if they posted on here that they had backed their horse at 12 months and were regularly balsting it up the gallops at less than 2 years old.
I dont deny the quality of care these horses get, afterall, they are very expensive but a shake up of the industry is seriously overdue.

 

[sleepingdragon10]

*rolls eyes* Oh god, not again....

 

[dieseldog]

So Puddicat are you for or against Horse Racing? I wouldn't want to see it banned but probably couldn't give a very good reason why it should or shouldn't be.

 

[vicijp]

Actually, they are public.
http://www.thehra.org/doc.php?id=18404&setdate=2007-03-14

 

[PaddyMonty]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, they are public.
http://www.thehra.org/doc.php?id=18404&setdate=2007-03-14

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really.
Cant find anywhere on the site that gives number of horses destroyed each year due to racing or training injuries.

 

[vicijp]

You will never find out the training rate, the powers that be have no way of recording them.
The info on that site may be daily, but it is there. If you really wanted to you could add them up.
All deaths are recorded in the race results and analysis on the Racing Post site. Again, the info is there if you can be bothered.
The raceday injury and death info and findings are published, in industry publications that are available to anyone who wants to subscribe.

 

[JM07]

[ QUOTE ]


I view racing as natural for horses - the wild horses I have seen in the US often race each other - I have yet to see one execute a dressage test, go jumping, or do parelli.



[/ QUOTE ]

i would agree with this 100%...

i can't think of anything more un-natural than a horse being asked to perform "circus tricks"..sorry Dressage.
NH racing is a longer and lower version of SJ, so slightly more easier to accomplish, as a horses skeletal make-up isnt set up to naturally jump.

as for parelli/IH.......no comment..this is, afterall a family forum.

as for some owners, yes, there are many who have, shall we say, perverse ways of care

 

[vieshot]

'subjecting animals to unnatuaral activities purely for their enjoyment'

errrr, do we not all do that? Stabling a horse in unnatural! Turning them out on grass which is a lot lusher than in the wild is unnatural! Whacking a saddle and bridle on them and asking them to work is unnatural! Feeding them hard feed is unnatural! Clipping them is unnatural!The majority of things a horse-owner does with their horse is unnatural but that doesnt make it a bad thing, it just means that we have to make sure that the animal remains healthy and happy withh the differences.

How you can call racing unnatural though and not comment on how unnatural it is to ask a horse to jump a course of xc fences!
xxx

 

[JM07]

i didnt actually say racing was unnatural.....quite the opposite.

agreed, all the things you have pointed out are unnatural...

as is SJ/XC/Dressage...

 

[sallyf]

GTs well said

 

[vieshot]

 

[Parkranger]

Of course racing is a natural thing - it may in an unnatural setting though.

Try telling my horse, when I get him on the downs, that the object is NOT to travel flat out and enter warp speed. Believe me my legs don't touch him. And believe me when I say he only stops when pointed at something too big to jump.

 

[WelshRareBit]

For goodness sake - you ban horse racing and you are on your way down the slippery slope of every horse sport being banned! Your horse can break a leg out hacking for gods sake - should we ban that too?

Im sorry but thats ridiculous to me.

I have seen a grown man next to tears because his best horse had to be shot, and that was not because it was a huge winner but because of the ammount of time, affort and energy that went into the horse. I agree with GTS racehorses are looked after very well and have the life of kings compared to some horses.

If anyone wants to go on a welfare crusade then perhaps they should start with the REAL problems ie) neglect in the Uk and working horses in third world countries - once thats sorted maybe then turn your beady eyes to horse racing but until then leave racing alone!

 

[vieshot]

very well said
xxx

 

[Parkranger]

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I agree with GTS racehorses are looked after very well and have the life of kings compared to some horses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just have to say that not all race horses are treated that well at all but that's a whole other debate! Just like some horses kept privately arent;

 

[vieshot]

All the racehorse yards i have seen (ive been to about 9!) treat theyre horses amazingly. Heated stables and everything! Im sure my horse would much rather have the life of a racehorse than the old stable and muddy turnout that i give him
xxx

 

[Lucy_Ally]

There is I guess a dark side to racing, the number of failed horses that end up at the abattoir or sold on to completely unsuitable homes is where I think the industry fails. Injuries do and will happen, but they do in most equine sports (we have a fair share of dressage/showjumpers/eventers as well as racehorses in). The levi on betting that is taken is used on the whole to fund equine research which has got to be a good thing. The talk of closing down the HBLB has been on the cards for such a long time though so who knows how long it will last.
Racing will always be contentious, even though horses do have a natural desire to run we push them to the limit of their physical capacity which is so often why break-downs and fractures occur. Banning it is unrealistic, there should however be a better system for catching the failing and older horses rather than relying on charities or letting them lapse into neglect. The trainer system I also think needs to be reviewed, as ViciJP has often said there are trainers with a high injury/failure rate (a lot of the well known ones too) and we certainly see a trend in the injuries from some yards. Recent studies have also shown different training regimes can have an effect on the bone metabolism in racehorses, so I think more research is needed into improving current training methods.

Sorry for the ramble - just my thoughts!