Why the low head carriage - always wondered?

Spyda

Spyda

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I don't know.

However, I have learnt that I should ship my happy hacker to the US because she would be perfect for their show classes. :D Multi-grand-champion at least. ;)

Me. 'I just want to shorten the reins a little'
Her. 'No' *tugs at reins* 'I want my head down here with loopy reins, how do you expect me to spook and chuck you off if you have a any control?' :p
 
That's odd. I hadn't realised that American horses were required to do that in showing classes. It gives the effect of a ring full of depressed horses :confused:
 
I've noticed it before but don't understand why.

The horses just don't look alert or switched on at all.
 
Although I'm American, I've lived in the UK long enough to be firmly set in the UK way of doing all things equestrian. My step-mother (sadly, now deceased) used to breed QH and from a young age I was always squabbling with her over the different ways the two countries did things. Expect I was a truly horrible teenage step-daughter :D:D

I've now grown up and appreciate that there are "many ways to skin a cat" but I'm still burmused at the low head carriage expected in English equitation classes in USA.

Obviously a low head carriage is advantageous when riding western and neck-reining, so do you think this requirement in the horse has just been carried over to the English classes, even though it isn't really appropriate in "plow reining" classes???
 
I recall hearing that a low head carriage is the expected way of going for cow herding horses. All to do with keeping the cows calm. Obviously that horse isn't herding cows while showjumping, but he is a breeding QH stallion.
 
Spyda said:
Although I'm American, I've lived in the UK long enough to be firmly set in the UK way of doing all things equestrian. My step-mother (sadly, now deceased) used to breed QH and from a young age I was always squabbling with her over the different ways the two countries did things. Expect I was a truly horrible teenage step-daughter :D:D

I've now grown up and appreciate that there are "many ways to skin a cat" but I'm still burmused at the low head carriage expected in English equitation classes in USA.

Obviously a low head carriage is advantageous when riding western and neck-reining, so do you think this requirement in the horse has just been carried over to the English classes, even though it isn't really appropriate in "plow reining" classes???
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Spyda, I'm the same as you (American and long enough in the UK to appreciate the British ways). I grew up with the versatile Morgan Horse, and rode saddleseat - some of the horses could go lower framed and most went in a uphill frame and with high knee action. And I never cottoned on to the whole hunter/jumper/western thing cos to me, it was depressing to watch (in the other breeds, the morgans had their faults, but never managed to have that peanut roller thing going). And the difference between the hunter equitation and the western equitation was a tack change.

I think that this fad is just a fad that never went away. It started lord knows when or where, but I can't think for the life of me why. How enlightening and strange to me when a proper hunter in the UK does go in an uphill frame. And it made me really look at the riding styles over here with a new respect.
 
It’s done in reining as a sign of calmness e.g. being able to gallop across the school, do a skid stop, then head straight back down in a relaxed, lolloping manner. Maybe it’s come in to showing there too as a way of indicating calm temperament? If they're showing QHs who might be desirable breeding stock for a profit, that would make some sense.
 
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Interesting jumping technique. Rider collapses onto horses neck and pushes self back into the saddle with hands. Might send the link to Geoff Billington, might be glad of a few pointers.

Joking aside, have never seen this style of riding, seems a cross between English and American pleasure. While I can see the advantages of low head carriage on the trail for self balance for long rides on difficult terrain and having a relaxed, non spooky horse - the showing fraternity seem to have exaggerated the style beyond practical need.
 
minkymoo said:
Have major tail envy though...
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Don't bother.
Many (note, I said many, not all) of them are fake:D

I remember one of the first shows I went to in North America, the horses had to reverse and one stepped on his beautiful long tail extension and ripped it out, the handler picked it up and tucked it in her belt without missing a beat:)

The differences between English and North American English are myriad. I now show Hunter Jumper over here and it is a case of 'When in Rome...' my daughter and I had to practically learn to ride again. There is a move to encourage a higher head set than the extreme peanut roller, but I have read that Judges, especially the older ones, place these higher and so it is a bit of a vicious circle. Show horses here are worth tens of thousands of dollars, and money is involved in almost all classes it seems to me, even Training Shows, so ... low head set = win = money = a $50,000 show horse. Catch 22.

It is the English Pleasure classes in particular where the riders all look (to me) tipped forwards and as if they are in the warm up ring. I have no idea why they are ridden in that outline (I asked, just had rather blank looks and 'How do you mean?' type answers) but horses are beautifully trained, incredibly responsive and obedient. Some of the show horses are like automatons, I know this personally, because I have several in my barn, and they won't do anything without being told to. The newest took months to learn that it was OK to play in the paddock - he's the bigger Paint in the 1st signature.

I am sure Tarrsteps will be able to enlighten us as to why if she sees the thread.
 
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Looks like the heads have come up some! Back when I was living in the US their noses were darn near ON the ground. Hence calling them 'peanut rollers'. It seems to be a Quarter horse thing though - I worked for a Morgan trainer and we went to all the shows - local/regional/national - and they all have their heads where they should be, even the western pleasure ones! Seriously, even after 20 years of living in the US I cannot work out WHY that head set is preferred by the Quarter horse lot. :confused:
 
While I agree that a Western Pleasure or Hunt Seat way of going can be a shock coming from an English background (and I find the Hunt Seat style of riding really pretty difficult!), I fail to see why just because a horse has a low headset it is automatically deemed to be 'depressed'! This lot generally look happy in their work, ears up, eyes alert? I've had the pleasure of riding a hunt seat horse and it was lovely, long, low with amazing hind leg drive and smooth suspension, very very smooth and soft to ride.
So much, surely, is in the breed build - so many Quarter Horses, like my two, have very little wither and the neck literally grows out almost horizontal from the shoulder, they are naturally low-headed courtesy of their frame. Of course this can lend them sometimes to get a little heavy on the front end but they are still required to lift in the shoulder and drive from behind, but without being held in or driven up.

Of course, I can't comment on whether the head set led to the conformation, or vice versa, haven't been in this world long enough!
 
wow that looks so odd i always thought there was a good reason we schooled horses to shift more weight onto the hind quarters in order to carry the riders weight more efficiently children in a riding school would be told off for riding with reins like that or is it my uneducated eyes? and is it just me or is that martingale really tight?
 
Wierd.

So, having a horse pull itself along on the forehand is deemed desirable... doh!!! There I was trying to get him OFF the forehand the last 20 years!!!!

AAAAAArrrrrgh!

Low headed naturally? It's not about the head though is it? Is about having a horse that works through it's back properly in order to carry the wieght of the rider.......... or am I completely bonkers?

Americans are just so bizarre.
 
It's just a fashion I believe. Looks wierd to me but they seem to only do it in hunters, not jumpers or necessarily equitation.
 
While a bit exaggerated I quite like it, because it mimics the way a horse walks in nature - unless interested in something they don't go round with their heads like hackneys.

What interested me more was the length of the tails!
 
youtubed a few more and what i don't understand is how they can call it english or hunter i'm not saying anything against the horses they are obviously impeccably well trained but some look so slow just sort of shuffling along on the forehand not really going anywhere
 
Rose Folly said:
While a bit exaggerated I quite like it, because it mimics the way a horse walks in nature - unless interested in something they don't go round with their heads like hackneys.

What interested me more was the length of the tails!
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I completely disagree with you.

The whole idea of having shows in the first place is to assess the correctness in which a horse is taught to carry a rider.

If a horse were to carry a rider like that it would be beset with injury/malfunction.

It is our responsibility when harnessing an animal for work to teach it to carry burden in a way that does not injure or cripple it according to the oldest teachings (which bypass America with great ease in most disciplines).

In the ridden horses' case, this is to adjust it's balance and therefore allow the hocks to take some of the weight. In those images, all of the wieght is on the forehand like a seesaw on it's fulcrum - the rider on the front end.

It's not just in this class - western classes do exactly the same. Then the other end of the spectrum (most disciplines on either side, not much in the middle) there are the tenessee walkers.

What can I say.
 
Is that a standing martingale on while jumping? Or at least a very tight martingale so horse cant lift head much. I cant imagine them ever reaching 4ft+ height fences with that head carriage.
 
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