Why you can't find cavesson bridles (according to Stubben)

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TPO

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After reading Sol's latest post on the Fairfax thread that they'd bought a Stubben Equi-soft girth I had a google to read the reviews.

I found this link http://www.honesthorseriding.com/do...rup-designs-really-work-this-you-have-to-see/

It appears to be an american lady that's spent a day at Stubben HQ and been able to ask the director questions. One of the questions was why do they only have one cavesson bridle available...

Maybe those of us that don't want to strap mouths shut should open ours a bit more to show that there is a demand for, what I would consider, normal tack.

http://e-venting.co.uk/2014/09/tight-nosebands-yes-or-no-and-why/
 
Interesting articles, thanks for posting !
I also wonder how many flash bridles are sold, not because they are specifically needed but because that is all that can be found ! I think there was a spate in the late 90's where flash nosebands became the fashion, demand pushed the stock carried by saddlers / tack retailers and perhaps that is just the way it has stayed ?
I had to order a bridle, one that you can mix and match the parts, as I could not find a cavesson bridle that I liked in store but also know quite a few people who have 'just bought' what is available even though the flash is not needed.

I am also coveting the Stubben Equi-soft girth ... all the reviews seen so far look good !
 
I looked for a smart bridle last year, it had to be brown, comfort head piece, plain noseband, no clumsy buckles but something slightly more interesting than a flat hunter bridle, it proved impossible as they all had flash nosebands as standard which is why, as said already, most people seem to buy them they simply have no choice, once purchased instead of removing the loop they use the bridle as it is and so the "need" for the flash continues as some people are almost scared to take it off in case the horse turns into a lunatic or whatever excuse they use.

I ended up buying a Micklem, nothing like my initial plan but the horse is happy and that is all that matters.
 
The fault is not with the piece of equipment, it is with the people using it in a harsh manner. Both of my bridles have a flash loop and I use a flash with it if needed - only ever for jumping. Just because it's there doesn't mean it has to be done up so tightly as to cause discomfort. That's simply misuse of the flash but it doesn't mean they should no longer be available. I don't especially like them however mine detests a drop noseband, I can't get a Micklem to fit him and TBH he is perfectly happy jumping with a flash on. I remove it for the other 90% of his ridden life.
 
Evision do a lovely cavesson, my friend has one and I am coveting one for my cob, the only thing is its nice and chunky on her TB and it might not be so chunky on my cob so I want to try it on lol. They do a hunter bridle as well.

Neither of mine need their mouth strapped shut, cob 1 chomps only when she is uncomfortable due to PSSM...
 
Or just do what my horse did. Buy a beautiful Albion bridle, first time on stand on the flash and snap the loop clean off. I've just had it stitched up again by the saddler. Doh.
 
It is very easy to remove the flash loop (even easier to simply not use the flash strap). I haven't used a flash in years and years, but in my competing days (dressage) they were on every single horse (not mine). I too have come across people who seem to think the flash is the only thing between them and instant death. Strange.
 
I must be really lucky or something odd is happening, because I don't struggle to find cavesson bridles :p

I tend to buy online because I usually know exactly what I want and I don't live near a tack shop. My go-to place for bridles is Sabre (no shortage of cavessons, crank and non-crank) but I've got a variety of other brands.

Where are people looking, who can't find suitable bridles?

(ETA interesting links though OP, particularly the saddle split down the middle!)
 
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TPO said:
Maybe those of us that don't want to strap mouths shut should open ours a bit more to show that there is a demand for, what I would consider, normal tack.
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Well said.

Why sell something there is no demand for, that doesn't make commercial sense. That was the very answer I got when I enquired about chestnut girths and boots. My horse had ginger legs, I wanted ginger boots - "no demand" Woof told me, they also said that I was one of a very few that had ever asked, if there was a demand they would do it.
 
We really should be speaking up. None of my bridles sport a flash, crank or grackle though I had to but separate nosebands to match as they ALL came with flash or crank. Horse came with a grackle, it looks pretty but was totally unnecessary on this particular horse.
 
Interesting, thanks OP :)

Having had a chat only last week with my local saddler, he says he has to remove a fair amount of flash loops off many bridles when they are sold (usually mid range ones, the cheapo ones are still rocking out the door, shame :( )

They invested this year in making a large number of std cavessons - padded and hunter - and will swap in for a new bridle, as well as other bridle parts too.

He is annoyed as he isn't able to purchase many off the peg good quality bridles without having 'fancy bits' attached.

He does make bespoke too tho :)
 
I really like the new stubben girths. They are really well made (but fiddle for cleaning I'd imagine) but they are more expensive than a Fairfax at the moment!
 
I gave up looking for a good bridle with a cavesson and had one made. I couldn't fine one in NZ off the rack, and if I was going to pay the money for a good bridle and then have it altered, buying bespoke was only slightly more expensive.
 
be positive said:
I looked for a smart bridle last year, it had to be brown, comfort head piece, plain noseband, no clumsy buckles but something slightly more interesting than a flat hunter bridle, it proved impossible as they all had flash nosebands as standard which is why, as said already, most people seem to buy them they simply have no choice, once purchased instead of removing the loop they use the bridle as it is and so the "need" for the flash continues as some people are almost scared to take it off in case the horse turns into a lunatic or whatever excuse they use.

I ended up buying a Micklem, nothing like my initial plan but the horse is happy and that is all that matters.
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I could have written the exact same post!! I am still looking in the vain hope that what you've described is out there!
 
milliepops said:
I must be really lucky or something odd is happening, because I don't struggle to find cavesson bridles :p

I tend to buy online because I usually know exactly what I want and I don't live near a tack shop. My go-to place for bridles is Sabre (no shortage of cavessons, crank and non-crank) but I've got a variety of other brands.

Where are people looking, who can't find suitable bridles?

(ETA interesting links though OP, particularly the saddle split down the middle!)
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milliepops - I looked at Sabre but they didn't seem to do a cavesson with a comfort headpiece??
 
Problem is we probably don't feed back enough what we want.

When I've bought an everyday bridle, I've just taken the flash strap off and it's not worth paying to have the attachment removed. And my local tack shops don;t do repairs or alterations so I would then have to find someone to alter it.
 
It is super easy to find quality cavesson bridles here in Calif. No one really uses flashes unless on a black dressage bridle. Everyone uses a cavesson unless they are into pure showjumping and then one must have a figure 8 (grakle). Weird how fashions are different in different places!
I just use a cavesson now for all disciplines. I used to use a flash in England or a grakle but tbh I always did them up so loosely they were just for asthetics...
I do think the loop on a flash bridle does look a bit untidy. Maybe they should start making the little flash adapters instead and then people can add a flash when they want instead of having an ugly loop.
 
Cortez said:
I too have come across people who seem to think the flash is the only thing between them and instant death. Strange.
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Is it weird that I took my pony hunting with no noseband at all? :D

He wears one now, mainly because he had to have one for dressage, and now he has a combination endurance bridle that converts to a headcollar when you unclip the headstall with the bit. It's true though that when I bought his leather bridle, there was only one in the whole shop that had no flash loop.
 
Mine is noseband-less at the moment too. I was experimenting with hacking in my in-hand cavesson (bitless) with her snaffle bridle over the top just in case I needed extra brakes.
I've never got round to putting the noseband back on the bridle but as it's a loosely done up cavesson it was only there for show anyway.
I think the noseband-less look suits her anyway.
 
Foxford said:
milliepops - I looked at Sabre but they didn't seem to do a cavesson with a comfort headpiece??
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The cordoba range is the comfort bridle, the noseband hanger is sewn into the headpiece so only one padded strap over the head. The 'sensitive' headpiece is also shaped away from the ears

http://www.shop.sabreleather.co.uk/...le-comfort-bridle-english--flash-1-1535-p.asp

Comes with flash or cavesson option. I have my bridles put together from different sized parts, they are really helpful so give them a call :)
 
Foxford said:
I could have written the exact same post!! I am still looking in the vain hope that what you've described is out there!
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CK Equine on Facebook does a huge variety of bridles and have had cavessons from her before would highly recommend.
 
Wow, usually anything I post sinks without a trace! ha ha

I echo Be Positive's post as I have been searching in vain for the same thing. I end up just getting cheap cavessons (JHL) and they do the job well enough for my requirements.

The flash is a curious thing. I'm pretty sure it was "invented" to stop horses breaking their jaw's should they peck/fall out hunting; but equally that could be something I read on the net and took as gospel...

Either way I still can't get my head around "needing" one especially as tight as those you see all the time and highlighted in the e-venting article.
 
TPO said:
The flash is a curious thing. I'm pretty sure it was "invented" to stop horses breaking their jaw's should they peck/fall out hunting; but equally that could be something I read on the net and took as gospel...
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That was what I read for Cavessons and why we need a noseband.

I was taught when I was young that a flash was where you needed a standing martingale and a drop noseband. You can't attach a standing martingale to a drop so that gave you something that you could attach to and the flash strap gave you the action of a drop.

So even at their best I have seen flashes as a compromise and if you want that action then you are better using a drop.
 
TPO said:
The flash is a curious thing. I'm pretty sure it was "invented" to stop horses breaking their jaw's should they peck/fall out hunting; but equally that could be something I read on the net and took as gospel...
Click to expand...

criso said:
That was what I read for Cavessons and why we need a noseband.
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Criso is right, it was the cavesson that was invented to stop broken jaws because if the horse tripped while galloping and ploughed the lower jaw into the ground, the lower jaw can break if there is no noseband keeping the lower and upper jaw together. The cavesson doesn't have to be super tight, the proper two finger gap is fine.
 
milliepops said:
The cordoba range is the comfort bridle, the noseband hanger is sewn into the headpiece so only one padded strap over the head. The 'sensitive' headpiece is also shaped away from the ears

http://www.shop.sabreleather.co.uk/...le-comfort-bridle-english--flash-1-1535-p.asp

Comes with flash or cavesson option. I have my bridles put together from different sized parts, they are really helpful so give them a call :)
Click to expand...

The sabre Córdoba is a great bridle and you can get pretty much any type of noseband to go on it.
 
Most of my bridles (mainly Stuben, Elevator or Albion) came with either crank or flash nosebands - doesn't mean I have to do the crank up tight (I don't) or use the flash strap (I don't). I just take a sharp stanley knife to the flash loop and cut it off.
 
A few years ago I went to a Nick Turner XC clinic. The first thing he did was remove the flash from my friends young horse. I can't remember what his exact reason was but I think he was trying to encourage the horse to relax it's jaw and look at where he was putting his feet.

He said he had a huge collection of flash straps as by the end of the lesson most people forgot they arrived with one and never asked for it back. :)
 
chestnut cob said:
The fault is not with the piece of equipment, it is with the people using it in a harsh manner. Both of my bridles have a flash loop and I use a flash with it if needed - only ever for jumping. Just because it's there doesn't mean it has to be done up so tightly as to cause discomfort.
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What's the point in using it though? I really see no point at all in using a flash or drop noseband, if you have to strap the horses mouth shut then there must be an underlying issue IMO. And yes, I did have a horse who most people would have chucked a flash on straight away as he was always putting his tongue over the bit, I lowered the bit a hole and suddenly he stopped doing it, I guess he was telling me he wasn't 100% comfortable. Too many people would have just strapped his mouth shut. I've tried various nosebands in the past (when I was young!) but cavesson all the way now, and no martingales either - dont get me started on those ;)

Really interesting to hear of the origin of the flash though, can't imagine many jaws would have been saved though with a 1/2 tonne of horse falling down on top of a thin leather strap...
 
MagicMelon said:
Really interesting to hear of the origin of the flash though, can't imagine many jaws would have been saved though with a 1/2 tonne of horse falling down on top of a thin leather strap...
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It's the cavesson that supposed to do that, the flash strap is just to keep the mouth shut ;)

I have had two horses that prefer a drop to a cavesson - one had teeth problems in the past and even when resolved preferred not to have anything higher up his head, went fine with no noseband too not sure about the other, he actually preferred a loosely fitted drop. I think it's interesting that the Micklem bridle avoids going where the cavesson would because of molars so I think it's an area where there is no simple answer.
 
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