Will anyone take this on (or another AIBU!)

[Glitter's fun]

My friend who works at a trekking centre in Scotland tells me that the overwhelming majority of their customers are either total beginners who want to take selfies in front of nice scenery, families with children, or Americans who haven't ridden European style before.
Just idly wondering if that is the case for most tourist area equine businesses? Not saying where it is (& not near where I am, for those I know itrw) but a well known trekking centre has just posted this and I'm a bit shocked and thinking it eliminates all possible customers!
Maybe I'm wrong and there's a bigger market than I know of for experienced riders, what do you think?

" Due to staffing problems, we have had to make big changes to our operation at [...] We are cutting back on the number of horses that we keep and will only be able to take bookings from more serious riders who have had a minimum of 5 years regular riding experience in the English/classical style.
Our horses are very well schooled; they are not problem horses or “tourist” horses, so we only want to put the better riders on them.
If you have only ridden your own horse for many years, you may want to think about whether you will be happy riding a strange horse as this can cause problems with confidence.
For hacking riders should be competent and balanced at all paces on forward going horses over hilly and varied terrain – English/classical style -We do not take western or gaited style riders as the two systems of riding are not compatible.
No children under 14.
We take hacks of 2 and 3 hrs. "

 

[Jenko109]

The first two paragraphs were okay.

It went pretty downhill after that

 

[Abacus]

I recently went riding in Egypt and the tour guides said that a lot of people just want a photo of themselves on a horse in front of the pyramids.

 

[bonny]

Wow, they are narrowing down their customer base considerably. Not sure that is going to go down well with anyone ?

 

[teacups]

It has only been recent that I’ve had my own horse. Before that I regularly rode at trekking centres for a nice hack out. They tended to differentiate between rides for more experienced riders and rides for less experienced/beginners.

I found that they tended to have an established customer base for the experienced rides, which usually consisted of ex-horse owners, often very experienced horse people but who for reasons of age or simply the convenience/cost of not owning. Most of these rode on a weekly basis. They all generally said how great it was not to have to deal with mud, hauling heavy things about etc! So there is definitely a market out there.

 

[ihatework]

My take on it is they are sick to the back teeth of dealing with beginner tourists and want to concentrate on offering services to people who can actually ride.

Lucky horses I say.

Whether it’s a viable business model is a completely different matter.

 

[JBM]

I mean they’re making their horses sound a bit dangerous to me..minimum of 5 year’s experience and if I only own 1 ridden horse I may not be able to handle theirs? Bit strange sounds like an interview

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s their buisness it’s their insurance and I think it’s likely the horses will be happier with this approach .

 

[Pippity]

I recently did a five-day ride in New Zealand, and they did stress that it was for regular riders. Cumbrian Heavy Horses also have some rides where they only accept experienced riders.

However, both of those are LONG hacks, and the CHH ones involve galloping in open spaces.

I can't imagine any two/three hour hack being special enough to attract riders who meet those restrictions.

 

[Nudibranch]

I'm not sure who they actually want to cater for. Perhaps nobody. I'm an experienced rider but presumably I would not fit their demands as I've only ridden my own horse(s) for many years. Probably over more demanding terrain than them as well, but hey.

Quite honestly regardless of their policy I would not touch them with a barge pole, purely based on that post. It's just rude and elitist. And I doubt that anyone who "qualifies" would actually bother either as, heaven forbid, they probably own their own horse.

 

[Peglo]

I’ve had horses for 19 years but that makes me question wether I‘d be welcome. But since I ride my own horse I guess I wouldn’t be.

 

[2ndtimearound]

It probably depends on the trekking centre. As I've mentioned elsewhere, all my regular riding is at the excellent Cannock Chase Trekking Centre, which also has horses that aren't your average tourist plods. A large proportion of them are also used for beginners and will look after them well, but can step up for more experienced riders. There are some that are really only suitable for experienced riders, but mostly because of the horses' age and experience.
There are a lot of tourist riders / beginners, but there is also a large core of experienced regulars who make up a significant proportion of the riders (particularly on the experienced ride they do in the mornings). For the experienced rides, you need to be comfortable cantering independently in open spaces (not that it stops some people from thinking they're capable of that when they aren't!). Many of the regulars have had their own horses in the past, but they're either no longer in the position to have their own or have decided they simply don't want to own another but still want to ride.
There is most definitely a market for experienced riders, but I'd be surprised if they could make it viable only having experienced riders (and wouldn't you be wanting to encourage new riders too, else you'll eventually run out of experienced ones?). However, I could be wrong!

 

[dogatemysalad]

If it suits their business, then I've no problem with that. The owner seems to care about the horses welfare and chooses to have horses for more competent riders.
Good hacking centres assess riders level of competence anyway. They can usually spot novices as soon as they get in the saddle.

 

[reynold]

I think it might well upset/put off some potential customers.

On the other hand I think it shows a high degree of concern for the welfare of their horses. If I was a potential customer I'd think that with their welfare attitude the horses there might be very enjoyable to ride because they won't be dead to the aids or sick of being ridden by people who hurt them due to ignorance.

 

[teacups]

Agree with 2ndtimearound: most of these centres would also have horses suitable for tourist/beginners.

About horse owners who only ride their own horse: many years ago I went on the BHS care and riding course, and was surprised not only that I was the only non-horse owner there but that most of the horse owners were not really very good riders, since I’d believed up to then that it was supposed to be much harder to ride a non-school horse than a ‘private‘ horse. Now that I do have my own horse I’m less surprised as my riding skills are most definitely nót improving <g>

 

[smolmaus]

If this is down to staffing problems I think its completely understandable. You need a lot more man-hours available if you want to be able to properly assess and hand-hold tourists, beginners and those who think a few lessons 10 years ago make them "experienced".

I do hope they have done proper assessments for their remaining customer base and this isn't a decision made out of frustration.

 

[stangs]

Non-riders expect a 1-2hr hack with maybe 2 short trots in it max. Any experienced rider, however, is probably looking for long canters and gallops (especially if they're only taking on confident clients), so I'm not sure to what extent this is better for the horses? Beginner rides involve the horse plodding around on a long rein, snatching grass whenever they want; it's not a bad life for the right horse.

I do know of a couple businesses that do only provide hacks for experienced riders, but it's marketed more as having a very flexible share horse, and the location to London no doubt helps with getting clients. In contrast, a friend of mine ran a trekking centre and, though she had several regular riders who could ride but couldn't have their own horse, too much of her income came from the summer tourists to warrant giving beginner rides up.

From the looks of this places' FB though, they're making themselves an all-around equestrian centre so hopefully income from that will keep them afloat.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Agree with 2ndtimearound: most of these centres would also have horses suitable for tourist/beginners.

They have been selling the cobs & plods, that's how I found out about it - a friend looked at one of them.

 

[Glitter's fun]

If this is down to staffing problems I think its completely understandable. You need a lot more man-hours available if you want to be able to properly assess and hand-hold tourists, beginners and those who think a few lessons 10 years ago make them "experienced".

I do hope they have done proper assessments for their remaining customer base and this isn't a decision made out of frustration.

That's a very interesting take on it, I hadn't thought about the staffing side of it. They have had a job vacancy advertised for a long time. They are in a fairly remote place so there'd be a restricted number of possible applicants, maybe.

 

[SEL]

They do sound a bit p'd off with their client base!!

I took out treks in a remote part of Australia and the vast majority of our riders were novices from the nearby camp sites. The horses were all standardbreds and could pick up the pace for experienced riders but just used to plod around the 2 established routes with the novices. They could probably have done it without guides tbh. Wasn't a bad life for them.

But I have ridden in places where experience was a must (Africa) and they have a point about people who have only ridden one horse not always being as confident when they are on a strange horse. But Scotland is not lion or elephant country and I think they would be better advertising it as 'fast riding over difficult terrain' and then check with people when they book rather than putting them off at the outset.

 

[Patterdale]

Well done them I say. And lucky horses.

 

[Red-1]

I can see that catering to the more experienced riders would be attractive, there may well be a business in that alone. I would, however, question their experience if they think western and English riding styles are not compatible.

Me Western...

Me English...



Both photos around the same year, can't see how one affects the other!

In America, I co-trained with a 3rd generation cowboy, who had never ridden English before. I would reckon he'd have beaten most at an Ele dressage within 20 minutes.

If you have balance, confidence, feel and think about the horse, I don't see what it matters what discipline you ride. Maybe it is something to do with the demographic for western style riders in their area? Like Parelli? I don't know, as I am not in their area!

I do, however, agree with the thing about riding your own horse. I used to train youngsters and troubled horses and would pretty much get on anything. I am now a windy rider and would think twice before climbing aboard a strange horse and whippin' off into gallop over varied terrain in a big group.

What was once fun would not be scary, and that can creep up on you when you ride a trusted steed!

 

[ester]

Bit weird that having your own horse means you’re not good enough

 

[2ndtimearound]

It's definitely one of the benefits of not having your own if you instead ride somewhere with a wide variety of horses. Last year (which was a fairly average year for me), I rode 18 different horses over the year (many multiple times), ranging from a 13.2hh Welsh C x cob, to a 16.3hh Appy x Welsh D, and many more in between (both in terms of size and breed). I'm still not the most confident of riders, but I'm definitely used to riding different ones.

 

[Patterdale]

The Burgie tiger!!

I think the difference though is that you have clearly been trained in both kinds - they must have had enough bad experiences with western-only riders to make them post this?

 

[Red-1]

Bit weird that having your own horse means you’re not good enough

To be fair, people who only ride their own horse only have to 'think about' if they would be confident.

Western riders seem to have an outright ban!

 

[Red-1]

The Burgie tiger!!

I think the difference though is that you have clearly been trained in both kinds - they must have had enough bad experiences with western-only riders to make them post this?

Yes, Burgie. This wasn't the fence that scared me though, it was the trakehner jumping downhill with the gaping ditch, tents in the background. I had a misser and tried to pull up but my horse grabbed the bit and flew over! Sadly, the photographer was retrieving his umbrella from being distracted by a horse who fitted under it a few horses before mine or it would have been a spectacular photo.

I'd only had a few 'western' lessons, just enough to learn the rules for the competition. My point was that if you have a secure seat, balance, understanding, confidence, the style of the riding is small fry. I find that most people who 'ride western' actually ride pretty English, but in a western saddle!!!

 

[Kaylum]

I have taken beginners out and you absolutely need someone on the ground, as well as a ridden backstop. That's a big overhead in staffing terms. Also some riding school riders are so much better than some horse owners. For experienced riders, we would do an assessment in the school first to see what their position was like aids etc before we would decide what ride they were allowed on. Sometimes we split into two groups. You have to keep everyone as safe as possible.

We have no idea what the place has experienced and I can imagen they had some pretty bad ones.

 

[paddy555]

I had a student job on a trekking centre and I don't think beginners and experienced riders mix well for a centre to take. It worked well where I was as we had 4 rides of 15 plus people and we had many spare horses left in the field so probably 90 plus horses so it was easy to accommodate real beginners and experienced.
However those horses good enough to cope with beginners would not have worked for the experienced. If you can ride reasonably you don't expect to go on holiday to have to school your horse into momentum. Alternatively back in those days one person took out 15 plus beginners and they needed to be sure they could trust the horses.


As for own horse people then own horse may be a difficult ex racehorse or it may be an elderly cob that manages the odd trot. When that cob rider has to get a new horse they realise that riding a younger more gooey horse is not so easy.
Gaited riders I can see a problem with but not sure why they don't like western ones. If I was an experienced, confident rider and wanted to ride with similar then I would find the advert quite encouraging.

As for taking pics then no way. Once you managed to get beginners on board you very much hoped they stayed there until lunchtime.

 

[SadKen]

Those who think it’s a good thing: realistically, would you actually go? I know I wouldn’t, firstly because if the horses are the type to knock my confidence that doesn’t sound much fun. Secondly why would I pay to ride another horse when I could ride mine? I would if I could ride with my husband (walk is fine!) or if I was riding something different eg heavy horses, or having a lesson a dressage schoolmaster. But to go for a hack? With no mates or husband? On a horse that might be way too much for me? Nah. And I doubt I’m alone.

So yes it’s great for the horses in theory, but excludes most of the market, meaning it’s not commercially viable.

This issue and the staffing, insurance issues are why it’s so difficult for riding schools in the modern world. I don’t have a solution.