Will anyone take this on (or another AIBU!)

[Patterdale]

I would go though if I was on holiday there. I’d choose a place like this over a ten tonne cob slow walk parade trek for beginners.

 

[Caol Ila]

I worked out which one it was. Can't say that I know it, though, because I've never had a reason to go down that road (no access to mountains over 2500ft!). It's in a bit of an awkward location.

I agree with SadKen. I'm not sure who their customers would be. Those experienced riders who aren't one-horse owners? People who have experience with many horses? Those ballsy riders who don’t mind being a crash test dummy on anything? That’s a very small population. I also don't want to pay to ride anything too crazy that I don't know on trails (my green horse and ex-feral horse provide enough entertainment, thank you!), and they do seem to be implying that they might knock your confidence if you're used to only riding your own horse. The whole paragraph is just a bit hostile and off-putting.

I looked at their horses on their website. If they had upper level schoolmasters, that would cater to a different demographic of riders. They say they have a PRE schooling Elementary/Medium but that's far from GP.

The area that it's in is mostly forestry tracks, with some moorland, but it isn't the most spectacular part of the Highlands. If I was going to pay to go on a trail ride, I would go for the Glen Shiel trekking centre, because riding in Glen Shiel would be awesome. I am pretty keen to do that some day.

The bit about no Western riders is a little offensive. If Buck Brannaman showed up on their doorstep, would they really turn him away?

 

[fidleyspromise]

Years experience isn't always a good thing. I've seem some riders I wouldn't let lead my horse let alone ride her.
I've had beginners out on hacks as well as American/Western riders and as long as people are willing to listen and try, I've no issue with them. I've also had experienced riders put who refuse to listen- wheel the horse in a circle so they can get extra trots.
This place would put me off as I am a one horse owner and it sounds like I'm not good enough for them.

I just had a think regarding the selling off horses and went to a website - yup. It's who I think it is and it's a good distance from me bit within my area but that's put me off.

 

[Melody Grey]

I’ve *only* been riding my own horses for the past ten years or so, so that’s me out.

Before that rode racers and eventers for a living and breaking and schooling youngsters, so probably under qualified!

Not sure what they’re trying to achieve but I don’t think it’ll keep them afloat long.

 

[paddy555]

Those who think it’s a good thing: realistically, would you actually go? I know I wouldn’t, firstly because if the horses are the type to knock my confidence that doesn’t sound much fun. Secondly why would I pay to ride another horse when I could ride mine? I would if I could ride with my husband (walk is fine!) or if I was riding something different eg heavy horses, or having a lesson a dressage schoolmaster. But to go for a hack? With no mates or husband? On a horse that might be way too much for me? Nah. And I doubt I’m alone.

So yes it’s great for the horses in theory, but excludes most of the market, meaning it’s not commercially viable.

This issue and the staffing, insurance issues are why it’s so difficult for riding schools in the modern world. I don’t have a solution.

turning your question around if you could ride (leaving aside going with your OH/family/kids etc who can't ride for a family outing) would you want to go out for 2/3 hours with a lot of beginners? To have your ride halted frequently because one of them has done something needing the attention of the leader. Or you get to a lovely little slope where everyone would canter up to find you all had to wait whilst the leader took the beginners up first? OTOH a group of beginners need to go at their own pace with attention and not to feel harassed by more experienced.
Why would you think the horses would knock your confidence, It advertises them as well schooled and not problem horses.

I wouldn't go as I can ride as often as I want on my own horses. I live close to the Clydesdales and wondered about going but didn't see I could justify the cost.

However of you don't have your own horse, perhaps you have a good job, can afford a couple of good riding holidays a year to say Iceland, US, Europe you may want a few rides during the rest of the year when you can go and just have a reasonably fast ride with similar people.

There are holidays advertised in Iceland where people are advised to make sure they are up to riding faster and longer. From some of the pics those ponies are tolting along pretty fast with the rest of the herd bounding along yet no one questions that some of their rides are for the more experienced.

f you have only ridden your own horse for many years, you may want to think about whether you will be happy riding a strange horse as this can cause problems with confidence.

that just points out what someone used to their own one horse for many years may actually find once they get on a very different strange horse. If they are totally confident on their own horse at home it is not going to do them any favours to lose some of that confidence.

 

[Glitter's fun]

The area that it's in is mostly forestry tracks, with some moorland, but it isn't the most spectacular part of the Highlands. If I was going to pay to go on a trail ride, I would go for the Glen Shiel trekking centre, because riding in Glen Shiel would be awesome. I am pretty keen to do that some day.

Sorry but Glen Shiel didn't re-open for trekking after Covid- they are breeding only now.
The one at the end of Glen Affric still trek & you can go the length of the glen with tents on pack ponies if you like. I aim to do that fairly soon, before I get too old to sleep on the ground after a day in the saddle!

 

[Melody Grey]

I wonder if they’re struggling to find suitable horses at a suitable price to accommodate the beginners so what they’ve got can’t cater for them?

 

[mariew]

They'll soon work it out if business comes their way or not. If their bulk of customers are one off tourists then I would be very surprised if they lasted long. But they must have some sort of experience of their clients to think it will work.

Personally their message is a bit passive aggressive and would make me think twice about booking.

 

[Caol Ila]

Sorry but Glen Shiel didn't re-open for trekking after Covid- they are breeding only now.
The one at the end of Glen Affric still trek & you can go the length of the glen with tents on pack ponies if you like. I aim to do that fairly soon, before I get too old to sleep on the ground after a day in the saddle!

I think they are open for trekking! Someone who worked there just started at my yard and said they were.

Affric would be lovely as well (like Kintail, before midge season). Using a horse to access Mullach na Dheiregain would be truly living the dream.

 

[Glitter's fun]

I think they are open for trekking! Someone who worked there just started at my yard and said they were.

Affric would be lovely as well (like Kintail, before midge season). Using a horse to access Mullach na Dheiregain would be truly living the dream.

ooo, good news then - sorry I must have old information.

Yes, big decision is do you choose the midge season or the cold and wet season for camping!

 

[Caol Ila]

ooo, good news then - sorry I must have old information.

They were advertising for a job vacancy (our new groom’s job, no doubt), mainly as a trek leader and groom but also breaking in youngsters if you have experience with that.

Tempting, but not a lot of aerospace engineering jobs for OH in Kintail.

I also think taking care of horses up there at the height of midge season would destroy your will to live. Glen Shiel is one of the places where I thought it was raining due to the amount of midges fluttering against the tent. The other was Mullardoch.

 

[EnduroRider]

Knowing the individual concerned the tone does not surprise me!

 

[eahotson]

I can see that catering to the more experienced riders would be attractive, there may well be a business in that alone. I would, however, question their experience if they think western and English riding styles are not compatible.

Me Western... View attachment 111878

Me English...

View attachment 111879

Both photos around the same year, can't see how one affects the other!

In America, I co-trained with a 3rd generation cowboy, who had never ridden English before. I would reckon he'd have beaten most at an Ele dressage within 20 minutes.

If you have balance, confidence, feel and think about the horse, I don't see what it matters what discipline you ride. Maybe it is something to do with the demographic for western style riders in their area? Like Parelli? I don't know, as I am not in their area!

I do, however, agree with the thing about riding your own horse. I used to train youngsters and troubled horses and would pretty much get on anything. I am now a windy rider and would think twice before climbing aboard a strange horse and whippin' off into gallop over varied terrain in a big group.

What was once fun would not be scary, and that can creep up on you when you ride a trusted steed!

Agree with that 100%

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I had my own horse and rode for years before that but have now given up.

However these don't sound easy horses and it makes me wonder if they do any of my hard no's e.g. bucking or rearing. It's the suggestion even people with their own horses may not be fit to ride them even.

I rode after having not ridden in about 5 months while on holiday at Cyprus, I'd been message the owner prior (was a place recommended on here) and said I don't want anything that bucks etc.

They had specifically said on the website riders needed to be experienced for the one I chose. I was a bit nervous as I hadn't ridden for a while after having had my own due to giving up horses completely. The first trot was fast but once I got used to her, as they said she was safe.

There was the classic used to cantering in one space and the fields were fairly short so again experience in knowing to circle if you're running out of room. There was a point she started to go up and down on the spot, where again experience helped in knowing to send her forward - if someone had pulled it could have made it worse

Super well schooled horse, apparently she could do advanced dressage moves, shame I didn't get to try. She was a lot more horse than my Welsh BUT safe with it. Much more off the leg and forward than mine too.

Now I've given up, if I do ride it'll be to dip into nice hacking. I don't want a stuffy rs stiff as a board plod that I'm constantly having to nag along. However I don't want to be run off with or launched into space! So looking for that nice inbetween. The fact they're implying even experienced riders may not be able to handle them would be a red flag for me and I'd sense a launching or being run off with! If they hadn't put that part in, it would be a place I'd potentially be interested in as I'm probably their target market.

I want a nice safe conveyance that goes off my leg and is nicely schooled. Which if they hadn't put the bit about people with their own horses would make me think these are and I'd be drawn to that and them not being plods. I rode on holiday once and felt safe as hourses on a hack over weird terrain, but she was not a plod. Just calm but off the leg. Lovely.

The other benefits about experienced only, is not wanting to gallop and canter, which I would, but being stuck only going slowly because someone is too scared to go faster than a walk. Especially as someone who used to have their own horse and being able to choose their own pace including fast!

 

[scruffyponies]

I had a lady come riding out with me who was an experienced rider, but had only ever ridden in South America. She only knew neck reining, and my pony didn't speak that language. Mount and rider were totally confused.

Having ridden western mostly isn't a problem. Having ONLY ridden western could be.

 

[SadKen]

turning your question around if you could ride (leaving aside going with your OH/family/kids etc who can't ride for a family outing) would you want to go out for 2/3 hours with a lot of beginners? To have your ride halted frequently because one of them has done something needing the attention of the leader. Or you get to a lovely little slope where everyone would canter up to find you all had to wait whilst the leader took the beginners up first? OTOH a group of beginners need to go at their own pace with attention and not to feel harassed by more experienced.
Why would you think the horses would knock your confidence, It advertises them as well schooled and not problem horses.

f you have only ridden your own horse for many years, you may want to think about whether you will be happy riding a strange horse as this can cause problems with confidence.

I can’t envisage going trekking without my OH, I would have no other reason to go - but this place doesn’t allow for beginners at all (I would have thought the obvious solution would be to have rides for beginners and rides for experienced if the market warrants it, not to simply stop offering rides to anyone who isn’t experienced). And there are a lot more beginners than there are experienced riders. It’s not a commercially viable strategy.

You make the point re the ‘May affect your confidence’ but the other way to interpret that is as a get out /cover for horses that are spooky, flighty, unstoppable and therefore no fun for me. So I wouldn’t bother. I want ‘all our horses are sensible enjoyable rides’. I don’t have the time in a short trek to form a bond and learn specific quirks and buttons. Trek horses being ridden by different riders all the time need to be easy going and push button. If it’s nuts and I find it a horror to ride, the response would legitimately be ‘it’s because you don’t ride lots of different horses. We warned you’. No thanks. I won’t bother risking my neck and my confidence for a trek. I have a perfectly pleasant horse at home who won’t affect my confidence.

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

I’ve been on a few riding holidays which specify that they are only suitable for very experienced riders. I would say the horses were not difficult compared to what I’m used to riding (WB) and there were definitely people who I would consider fairly novice were good enough to stay on and although their horses were very forward they just followed the rest of the herd. There has been some fairly challenging terrain which was taken at flat out gallop which was more challenging than the actual horses ime.

I wonder if the western riding is aimed at Americans that ride at dude ranches which I understand have quiet easy horses that are expected to behave at all times?

 

[Cloball]

I'm going to horribly generalise here, and it's been many moons since I worked on a trekking yard, but the vast majority of people who said they could ride western just couldn't ride at all. They were usually so clueless that they thought this was a believable excuse for having to be led for the entire ride 'oh well you know I usually ride western'.
The issue is the vast majority of people who can ride down play their experience or are just more honest. Those who can't ride don't understand what they're talking about and assume they are more capable.
Those rule would have ruled me out of most of the multiday riding holidays I've done with no issue.

 

[j1ffy]

Having been on a few riding holidays (and with a good friend who owns a riding holiday place) abroad, I do understand the points they are making although the tone could be better!! I've always selected holidays for 'experienced' riders and the websites are always very clear on expectations - ability to ride confidently at all paces in open spaces etc.

Twice I've been on holidays with people who thought they were experienced because they'd been on a few US dude ranches, including all paces in open spaces. Once in an English saddle (or an Aussie stock saddle when I was in SA) they really struggled. They also didn't understand how to maintain a contact so were downright dangerous when we were supposed to canter in single file. I imagine these are the types or Western riders that they mean rather than the Buck Brannamans of the world! however that's as difficult to assess as whether an English rider is as capable as they claim.

I've also seen plenty of riders with their own horse who were very nervous on a strange horse. Although not dangerous, they could have slowed up the group considerably had there not been a back-stop rider to look after them!

So I do get it, but I can't see how the wording would genuinely 'improve' the level of rider you would get.

 

[SEL]

Oh I totally get the western riding point actually - but again it could be put more tactfully.

There are many, many riders who use a western saddle as a sofa and have very little actual riding ability. I've sadly met some of them on overseas riding holidays and I can think of 2 cases immediately where they slowed down the ride badly. Taking away the security of a good western saddle and putting them in a European saddle where they actually need balance is a recipe for a splatted rider.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I would wonder what kind of horses they are using, and how competent they are at schooling horses. They say ‘very well-schooled’ but the exclusions cover situations where I’d expect a well-schooled horse to cope fine.

I completely appreciate that not every horse is suitable for a beginner but a decently schooled horse should be able to be ridden by experienced riders who may not be completely confident on a new horse or riders have trained in a different style of riding.

I can imagine that someone might not want an experienced western rider to ride a highly-schooled English style competition horse. But why would you use that sort of horse for trekking?

As a relatively experienced rider myself, with more than one of my own horses and no confidence issues, I still wouldn’t want to book a ride there.

If I’m going to hack out on holiday, I probably want to look at the scenery, go for a leisurely canter, be able to relax and enjoy the scenery. I don’t want to worry about whether they think I’m riding well enough, or that my style of riding might not suit their schooling style. And if the horses are indeed so sensitive to nervous riders, I wouldn’t really want to be dealing with a neurotic animal and paying for the privilege.

I expect my own horses to be safe for beginners in walk or trot. They would all be fine for capable but nervous riders on a hack, and I’d expect them to cope perfectly with western style versus English style. Two are also great for experienced riders to pick up and ride properly - our pro dressage rider who competes at Grand Prix loves riding them - and the third will be too when we start schooling her properly. Granted, they don’t go trekking with a different rider every day but I do think if a horse’s entire job is being a trekking horse, it should be manageable.

Eta, I completely agree with splitting rides into beginner, intermediate, advanced etc, just not that this needs different horses.

 

[Roxylola]

I know a few people who've got their own horse and plod about balanced on their reins somewhat crooked at a walk/trot/canter. Often said horse is a smallish cobby type. Put them on a sportier more responsive model and at best they'd suddenly become pretty windy. At worst they'd just plop off 85 timeliness a couple of hours.
I read the owning a horse doesn't equate to being a balanced rider as geared at those people. However I'd agree it's not well worded

 

[SantaVera]

yes it narrows their customer base but its an honest statement and those booking will fullfil the criteria the trekking centre wants so rides should be fun and exciting for the participants.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

I think it sounds like the owners have found themselves in a tight spot, and are just trying to be able to continue doing what they like in a scaled down version, instead of shutting down completely.
I'm sure there are some riders who does fit their description, and I'm sure their outdoor rides are very enjoyable for their remaining horses. But are there really enough riders fitting their description to keep their horses in regular, daily ridden work, or is it possible that the need for experienced riders have something to do with that some (all?) of the horse are only ridden a few days per week?

If you're an experienced rider who owns more than one horse which you regularly rides, I'm not sure you'll be so eager (or perhaps able to afford) to pay to ride yet another horse, which I presume mainly leaves the horseless experienced riders as potential clients.
Overall, I think it now sounds more like a riding school without a manège for mainly locally living advanced horseless riders, rather than a trekking centre for both local riders, and riders on holiday wanting to enjoy nature from a horseback view.

I know it says their horses are well schooled, but it still reminded me about a horse blog I read probably 10 years ago or something like that, were the blogger talked about that nowadays when she goes on a riding holiday to a trekking centre she always underestimate her riding ability, because she's there for an enjoyable riding out in nature holiday, not a schooling session out in nature work hard thing.

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

I know it says their horses are well schooled, but it still reminded me about a horse blog I read probably 10 years ago or something like that, were the blogger talked about that nowadays when she goes on a riding holiday to a trekking centre she always underestimate her riding ability, because she's there for an enjoyable riding out in nature holiday, not a schooling session out in nature work hard thing.

Absolutely! I don’t want to ride some mannerless brute when I’m paying for the privilege.

 

[smolmaus]

I know a few people who've got their own horse and plod about balanced on their reins somewhat crooked at a walk/trot/canter. Often said horse is a smallish cobby type. Put them on a sportier more responsive model and at best they'd suddenly become pretty windy. At worst they'd just plop off 85 timeliness a couple of hours.

Guilty as charged

I do go occasionally to a local-ish trekking centre, usually as company for a horsey friend who doesn't get to ride very often. I am there for a natter, the scenery and a nice day though so I just want a horse that knows their job. We went as a large group once with a bunch of lads who had never touched a horse and some of us who were very happy to jump a few logs and have a canter and everyone was really well catered for but the number of horses and staff needed for that is substantial. They do lessons and I think breed, produce and sell horses too so they are going the opposite way to the place in question here and getting income from as many different avenues as possible.

 

[Waxwing]

The last time I went riding on holiday was in Wales a few years ago on a half day ride, They were extremely well organised and evidently used to having people who had never sat on a horse before and people who could competently canter in open spaces on the same ride. Everyone was assessed in the school before out and those of us that could ride were given opportunities to leave the larger group for several canters. I was sceptical before setting out but it worked really well; felt very safe for everyone and the horses were well cared for and happy. I appreciate on longer rides it may be more appropriate to have just more experienced riders but this stables was able to accommodate everyone.

 

[EventingMum]

They must think there are sufficient experienced riders looking to ride with them to make it viable to continue. I think pony trekking does tend to attract a lot of beginners, one near me has a lot of tourists from 5* hotels locally, they offer 60 min rides in walk to admire the scenery for £65, more if you want to be an exclusive group whereas very close by I offer beginners lessons for a huge amount less - totally different markets!

@Red-1 such a shame Burgie doesn't run now., that drop had a variety of stuffed animals over the years!

 

[Red-1]

@Red-1 such a shame Burgie doesn't run now., that drop had a variety of stuffed animals over the years!

It was the fulfilment of a childhood dream.

 

[Barton Bounty]

My last yard was part of a trekking centre and the person taking over last year the day I left it was an absolute moron. The clientele has practically dropped off and the only customers now are from the very expensive high class seaside resort hotel. 95% of which cannot ride. No outsiders want to go there as the place is just cr@p and the atmosphere is bad