Winter faecal water syndrome

[Highmileagecob]

Following with interest, as my loan of 7 years has had this for over a decade. Seems worst in winter when the grass is off. But a good doer, so on restricted grazing all year.

Can't be washed much as he's terrified of hoses and only tolerates bucket & sponge if distracted by large feed, its taken years of hard work to get to this stage. 7 Day Mud Away helps, and Show Sheen.

Also prone to colic so I'm ultra cautious about diet changes/trying new things. Owners aren't knowledgeable and don't come to the yard; they live a fair old journey away; he was bought for a family member who gave up years ago - there was a vet investigation also years ago but they said there was "no point" in investigating further, which was perhaps the wrong thing to say in finality as he was then just left; when I took him on, was dirty, matted and underweight, on a strange feed combination which didn't help at all. Also he gets mites and mallanders, it's a lot to cope with.

He's a lot better on the Protexin and kept appropriately rugged, if he's cold its worse. After a LOT of research is on Spillers Lean & Lite & Thunderbrooks chaff.

I'd sedate and clip out the back end & legs, (don't care if it looked weird!) and keep tail short but its not my place to, so I just do my best with what I can.

I'm interested to read about the nutritionist - our hay comes from more than once source so it would be difficult to analyse properly though. They also sometimes are given haylage and I can't control that; seems worse then.

I worry that years of this is doing something bad to his digestive system - he had some bad bouts of colic in the spring this year for the first time.

Hiya, a bit off topic, but if you can source some 'Selsun' shampoo with 2.5% selenium it will kill the mites and stop the cob itch. Scrub legs, right down to the soles of his feet, leave on for ten minutes, rinse well. Repeat at five day intervals until he stops itching. You may well find that he is then more comfortable to wash as the burning itch has gone. Do you have any opportunity to take him on permanent loan or buy him? He sounds as if he has landed on his feet with you!

 

[Chappie]

Thank you, I'll PM you! (as it's off topic!)

 

[blodwyn1]

I have just spoken to my vet about my two mares and he has recommended Cooper's gut support as it can help the hind gut. Has anyone tried it?

 

[Highmileagecob]

I did look at Coopers, but opted for Pink Mash instead. Coopers contains a clay product, which I feel would certainly stop the free liquid but not address the root cause.
My lad is better on a very low fibre bucket feed, and over the past two nights I have not soaked his nets. Just to throw a spanner in the works, I noticed he is quidding today, so will have to get the dentist back.

 

[windand rain]

Max gut health is good

 

[Highmileagecob]

Latest update
The old boy is now completely off all high fibre bucket feed, and I have stopped soaking his nets. He gets a double handful of dampened bran mixed with a handful of Alfa A morning and night, and I am slowly reintroducing his balancer. I haven't ridden him, but have walked him out in hand, a little gingerly I must admit as he thinks it is a bit wussy to be on a lead rope off the yard.
I have noticed a big improvement. He still has daily staining under his tail, but it is not running down his legs and tail like it was before. He is much brighter in himself, is joining the herd again, and seems a lot happier. Fingers crossed it will continue, and a huge thank you to everyone for your advice and observations.

 

[holeymoley]

An update from mine too, I’ve taken him off the purabeet and he’s stopped. Also taken him off the gut balancer too and he seems fine… ??‍

 

[Bumblepony]

I'm not sure if this is helpful, as with my boy it wasn't specific to winter and he was very elderly, but thought I'd post anyway just in case it's useful to someone. My old boy had this for over a year; he was happy and well in himself and the droppings themselves weren't too abnormal but he'd pass a lot of liquid afterwards, so I was washing him daily. He was however struggling to put weight on, though was maintaining an acceptable weight. I tried so many things (not all at the same time) I can't even remember them all; various pre/ pro biotics, various gut mashes, slippery elm, Sucralfate, bio sponge. Eventually he ended up on Prednisolone which helped briefly, then Codeine which again helped for a bit but then stopped working and we ended up having to up upping the dose. Throughout this he appeared to be managing to eat his hay, I never found any chewed up and spat out bits in his stable, and he was never colicky. He eventually started to not get through quite so much hay, then he had a dentist appointment, which I think must've just tipped him over the edge with his chewing ability (not that the dentist did anything wrong, but B was about 33 at this point and had little griding surface left so I think that change of having his teeth done made him less able to chew hay) and it became more evident that he was struggling with hay. I put him onto a hay replacer (Simple Systems Haycare, I don't work for them I promise! But I love the product as it gave my boy two more happy healthy years) and within a few days the faecal water had cleared up, and never returned. Just my experience, but in case it helps

 

[EllieBeast]

I had this issue with my old cob mare, nothing seemed to help but I started adding a devils claw root supplement for an unrelated issue and that cleared up the extra faecal water completely. I have no idea why and there’s unlikely to be any science to back it up but may be worth a try!

 

[FabioandFreddy]

I can't have my boy on haylage - even though ours is drier and more like wrapped hay, it makes it worse! Have to have separate hay for him as all our others are better on haylage (one with COPD).

I have found that adding activated charcoal and brewers yeast has helped a lot. I was feeding Protexin but moved to Hack up bespoke. I checked the ingredients with their recommended supp and Protexin and theirs had slightly more Prebiotic/Probiotic than protexin and works out a lot cheaper...and also has extra's in personalized for your horse.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Another update.
I have maintained the small bran mash with a handful of Alfa A and re-introduced his balancer. He has not gone back on Previcox, and I have stopped soaking the haylage. He is coughing occasionally, (COPD) but the free water has cleared completely. Maybe his gut could not cope with high fibre feed, or perhaps there was a hindgut ulcer. Either way he is much happier and has got his mojo back!

 

[blodwyn1]

Update on my mare's two weeks after starting Cooper's gut support I am finally seeing an improvement. We have also emptied and cleaned out all water troughs so that all water supplies are clean.

 

[Highmileagecob]

After fourteen days on the reduced fibre diet, and being dry for twelve days, today was back to square one. Dirty tail and bottom, faecal water down both legs and feather, miserable horse. The only thing that has been different was a thirty minute ride (plod) yesterday on a level surface, with no hill work. He seemed to enjoy it - ears pricked, interested in surroundings, but today has had to have his hindquarters washed. Over the past two weeks I have walked him out in hand for half an hour or so, but yesterday was the first ridden exercise. There is an earlier post linking faecal water to exercise (sorry, forgot to check your name), so that may be a red flag.
This is so frustrating. I feel awful scrubbing the poor horse when it's 3C.

 

[OldNag]

Reporting back.... after only one dose of Protexin Gut Balancer our retiree was better already!
I am amazed it worked so quickly.

I have got him a big tub of Coppers Gut Support after recommendations on here, and he will go onto thst once the Protexin has run out.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Further update: After the January setback I gave him Pink Mash for five days and then stopped adding it. His gut returned to normal within 48 hours and has stayed that way. I have hung up the saddle for good. He is walked in hand, and we have a thirty minute circuit around the locality which gives him a change of scenery and stretches the legs.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Resurrecting this thread for anyone who is interested.
Winter Faecal Water Syndrome is back with a vengeance, The old boy has had a fair bit of dental work over the past summer, and now has his haylage chopped. I have had to feed Fast Fibre and soaked Alfa A to keep some condition on him, and he has gone back on a minimum dose of fibrocoxib to keep the aches and pains at bay. He is no longer exercised, apart from daily herd turnout. He is happy, joining the herd, having mock fights over the patch of grass that everyone wants, and is generally his old self.
His tail and bum are stained, and the fillet string on his rug is disgusting. Today I have started him on Global Herbs Firm Up in a last ditch attempt to sort this out, and have mixed his chopped haylage with soaked Graze On to see if reducing haylage intake will help. Reading as much as I can about the condition, it seems to be very common, with no real solution.

 

[mustardsmum]

I think you have tried gut balancer but have you tried the Protexin Acid Ease? We had a messy mare, and gut balancer helped to some extent but Acid Ease was amazing and transformed her. We started with the loading dose and followed the feeding instructions (feeding twice a day, morning and eve) and saw a huge improvement. We did always find it was worse in the winter.

 

[little_critter]

My boy had fecal water, I didn’t try as much as some on here but had tried a selection of gut balancers and prebiotics. None of them worked.
Then I tried the Trinity Consultants supplements for fecal water (FW1661) and just one bag of it sorted him out. He’s been off the supplement for around a month to 6 weeks now and it hasn’t recurred. I think the difference is that the Trinity Consultants supplement actually has fecal bacteria in it so it reseeds the gut.
Ingredients
Calcium chelate, Cinnamomum zeylanicum, Magnesium phosphate, Potassium chloride, Stevia extract, Vitamin E, Zingiber officinalis, Kieselgur (selected freshwater silicaceous single cell diatom algae), Turbinella pyrum (processed), Enterococcus faecium M74 Probiotic.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Thank you. Both suggestions are sound and will be followed up.

 

[meleeka]

I think you have tried gut balancer but have you tried the Protexin Acid Ease? We had a messy mare, and gut balancer helped to some extent but Acid Ease was amazing and transformed her. We started with the loading dose and followed the feeding instructions (feeding twice a day, morning and eve) and saw a huge improvement. We did always find it was worse in the winter.

Acid Ease is the only Protexin that helps my mare. I tried the Gut Sponge recently, but that actually made it worse, although It did coincide with a batch of courser hay so it could have been that.

I’m also adding 30ml of Aloe Vera juice on the basis it can’t hurt. She’s currently doing well with a clean bottom.

 

[Dustygirl]

I tried lots of gut supplements with my mare and none really made much difference. However I’ve noticed since feeding vitamin E all year (higher dose in winter)she’s been much better. I use forage plus natural vit E.

 

[Bumblepony]

Resurrecting this thread for anyone who is interested.
Winter Faecal Water Syndrome is back with a vengeance, The old boy has had a fair bit of dental work over the past summer, and now has his haylage chopped. I have had to feed Fast Fibre and soaked Alfa A to keep some condition on him, and he has gone back on a minimum dose of fibrocoxib to keep the aches and pains at bay. He is no longer exercised, apart from daily herd turnout. He is happy, joining the herd, having mock fights over the patch of grass that everyone wants, and is generally his old self.
His tail and bum are stained, and the fillet string on his rug is disgusting. Today I have started him on Global Herbs Firm Up in a last ditch attempt to sort this out, and have mixed his chopped haylage with soaked Graze On to see if reducing haylage intake will help. Reading as much as I can about the condition, it seems to be very common, with no real solution.

It seems to be such a difficult condition to deal with, and I'm very aware different things help different horses, but I'd really encourage the idea of trying a total switch to a hay replacer if you come to the end of other ideas. I would hardly have believed the difference it made to my boy, it literally solved the faecal water within a week, I kept him on the hay replacer for the rest of his life, until I lost him after two years to something unrelated, and it never returned, not even slightly. He still had grass during the day, and hay replacer at night. I did make sure I used a hay based one though, so Simple Systems Haycare, rather than one with lots of different ingredients or sugar beet. Feeding the soaked Haycare meant he was just getting something very similar to the usual straightforward forage he got when he was eating hay, but in a form which was much easier for his body to deal with.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Both my friend and I are using a balancer which contains vitamins, zinc, omega 3, magnesium and calcium amongst other things. My lad is having Pink Mash daily, so the Protexin element is covered, and I use Alfa A instead of hay chaff. Acid Ease seems to be an alfalfa base, and to me, he appears to be getting the main ingredients in his bucket. Haylage is definitely a trigger for my cob, but friend's cob has never had haylage, and is now on a poor teeth diet.
Think I might ask my vet to screen a poo sample, and have a chat about whether a course of metronidazole might help.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Thanks Bumblepony, but my cob is COPD and has to be kept away from hay. As we get his breathing sorted out from summer heaves, he starts with faecal water as soon as he comes in at night. I wish I could use hay products, but unfortunately he starts coughing.

 

[Taliesan]

Jack gets this every winter and I have never managed to get on top of it. It is interesting reading about what others have tried so, if the Trinity Consultants supplement (FW1661) doesn't fix it for him I have some other things on my list that I can try next.

He has always had somewhat loose poo. It isn't liquid, but it isn't has hard and nuggety as that of my other horse. When he had faecal water in previous winters his poos did get more liquid and soft at the same time. What has fixed the loose poo is giving him dried rosemary, oregano and thyme with his food every day. In the summer he was fine on about 2x 25ml scoops but this winter I've found that doubling this to 4x 25ml scoops firms up his poo to more normal levels and it does fractionally reduce the amount of faecal water.

The herbs haven't cured it but they are definitely helping to make it more manageable this year.

 

[Chappie]

Following with interest as my poor cob is still bothered by this Usually cold weather kicks it off but it's not been very cold here yet, and it is back with a vengance.

He's currently on the Trinity (FW1661) but he really doesn't like eating it, he's not on the full dose, so that is maybe a factor on why no difference - or maybe I need to persevere - he doesn't get big mash-type feeds which would be easier to hide it so that is an issue.

Considering getting in some Pink Mash to hide it in, that does of course have Protexin in in also... was trying to watch what I'm spending on supplements and feed so now is not the best time to be experimenting, but his usual Protexin Gut Balancer is not having much affect at the moment!

I was looking for a deal on Acid Ease as it did help a bit when I tried it before and saw this, I wonder if anyone has tried this? Interesting about the herbs you used, Taliesan.

https://farmandcountry.co.uk/products/global-herbs-firmup

 

[Highmileagecob]

A big part of me wonders whether this is a result of gut wall damage from his unknown worming history before I got him at 7/8 years old.

 

[cauda equina]

Thanks Bumblepony, but my cob is COPD and has to be kept away from hay. As we get his breathing sorted out from summer heaves, he starts with faecal water as soon as he comes in at night. I wish I could use hay products, but unfortunately he starts coughing.

Haycare (100% Timothy) comes as nuts which you soak so is basically a mash
Mine all love it

I've also had good results using psyllium to dry up wet guts

 

[Getbackboys]

add brewers yeast to feed cheap and cheerful, no runny tums or squits

 

[SEL]

A big part of me wonders whether this is a result of gut wall damage from his unknown worming history before I got him at 7/8 years old.

Quite possibly. I knew a youngster who had to be euthanised after worm damage to his gut. It sounds like you're managing it the best you can