Winter faecal water syndrome

[Highmileagecob]

Today is the worst he has ever been, and I am struggling to balance his needs. No grinding surfaces on his teeth, but the soft diet does not help his guts. The best I managed to do last winter was switch to a bran mash with balancer and Alfa A - it dried up the water 70% but did nothing to keep condition on him. At the moment I am chopping his haylage into four or five inch lengths, which he is eating, and supplementing that with half a trug of Silvermoor veteran haylage and a quarter of a trug of soaked Graze On mixed together. He is getting less than half a stubbs scoop of Fast Fibre and Pink Mash blended together and soaked in three times its water, with a good double handful of Alfa A and his balancer. He looks good condition wise, is happy, in the thick of the herd politics and generally has his usual bounce. I can't really see that the Firm Up is doing anything.
Tomorrow I will get some brewer's yeast, and maybe manuka honey for five days.
Thank you for your suggestions. Much appreciated.

 

[meleeka]

Today is the worst he has ever been, and I am struggling to balance his needs. No grinding surfaces on his teeth, but the soft diet does not help his guts. The best I managed to do last winter was switch to a bran mash with balancer and Alfa A - it dried up the water 70% but did nothing to keep condition on him. At the moment I am chopping his haylage into four or five inch lengths, which he is eating, and supplementing that with half a trug of Silvermoor veteran haylage and a quarter of a trug of soaked Graze On mixed together. He is getting less than half a stubbs scoop of Fast Fibre and Pink Mash blended together and soaked in three times its water, with a good double handful of Alfa A and his balancer. He looks good condition wise, is happy, in the thick of the herd politics and generally has his usual bounce. I can't really see that the Firm Up is doing anything.
Tomorrow I will get some brewer's yeast, and maybe manuka honey for five days.
Thank you for your suggestions. Much appreciated.

To dave looking back through the whole thread, can you list what you’ve tried?

 

[Highmileagecob]

I've mainly tried to manage it by diet up to this year, as I am not a fan of the shelves stocked with every potion for all ills. I know too much haylage sets it off, and hay is an absolute no. Don't want to risk hay in case it triggers another respiratory attack. Last winter I tinkered with his fibre feed. Sugar beet was eliminated, Fast Fibre was introduced instead. Four months down the line and FF had to be withdrawn, and bran mash and Alfa A substituted. Small amounts of Alfa A (one double handful per feed) have always been used instead of chaff, as chaff made him cough. The best result came from a week of haylage with bran and Alfa A bucket feed. Nothing else at all. Within ten days he started to lose condition and then the headache starts - how to feed him? This year he is back on fibre and haylage, with Alfa A to try and keep his condition. Add to the mix that he has been diagnosed as probable EMS around ten years ago. I'm also aware that chopping and changing his diet isn't the best option, but if I don't try then I'll never know....

 

[Highmileagecob]

Adding Global Herb's Firm Up and Brewers' Yeast at the recommended level have seen him get worse. He is passing cow pats and liquid, and I have never seen him so bad. I have stopped his fibre feed again, and switched to bran mash, balancer and Alfa A just to calm his guts down and give him a chance of firming up. He is enjoying his veteran haylage, which comes ready chopped, but prefers to pick through his net instead of eating the stuff I have chopped for him. He isn't quidding and is coping with his chewing.
Logically, I think my next step is to have the Equibiome test done and see if that throws anything up.

 

[cauda equina]

Have you tried psyllium? That worked for mine when all else failed
Equibiome is certainly worth doing imo but the results take a while

 

[mustardsmum]

I really would try the Acid Ease at the loading dose for the amount of time correct time (think it’s seven days then you drop the amount) This really worked for our mare - whose rug one winter I was washing everyday ….. (and her tail and legs). I also recently stopped feed Fast Fbre and started feeding Antilam and both our ponies have much better behinds! It’s only a balancer, and they have it with Free From Honeychop oat straw damped down. My older mare (who had the issues) has never been so good and she now only has the acid ease when she goes into a new field as she is always worse on new grass. The grass is growing atm which might not helping.

 

[mustardsmum]

@cauda equina just looked and Acid Ease and on if it’s ingredient is psyllium so wonder if that why is worked so well for us?

 

[TGM]

We have one that suffers from this and we found Acid Ease didn't help much at all. However, daughter got given a free tub of Bettalife Digestive supplement and this made a huge difference.

 

[meleeka]

Acid Ease definitely has to be fed at the full dose twice a day for the loading dose to have any effect I’ve found.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Thank you. As far as I am aware, Alfa A has a similar buffering effect, and he has been on Pink Mash (beetroot and Protexin). Firm Up contains bentonite and psyllium, and brewers' yeast was also suggested as a gut support.
His gut definitely needs a rest, so I have withdrawn everything that is not necessary, and have emailed Equibiome for advice.
Have a feeling that the steroid treatment for his breathing issues back in August may have a lot to do with the current situation, unless it it simply a case of aging digestion coming to the end of the road. Don't want to think about that just yet

 

[Highmileagecob]

Update. A lot of reading and research has highlighted that forage needs to enter the foregut well chewed, and broken down enough for the hindgut to ferment, Equibiome suggests adding diversity to the diet to increase gut flora. With this in mind I have introduced damp Graze On mixed with soaked Fast Fibre, and pre chopped haylage to replace half of his haylage ration. Fibre nuggets shaken through an armful of loose haylage stop him bolting them down, and he still has a net to pick through overnight. A small bucket feed of bran mash with his balancer and anti inflams, also contains sliced carrot and swede.
Big improvement. 80% reduction in free water, firm droppings, no stained bottom, clean tail. Best of all he is holding condition and is happy. Fingers crossed it will continue.

 

[meleeka]

Update. A lot of reading and research has highlighted that forage needs to enter the foregut well chewed, and broken down enough for the hindgut to ferment, Equibiome suggests adding diversity to the diet to increase gut flora. With this in mind I have introduced damp Graze On mixed with soaked Fast Fibre, and pre chopped haylage to replace half of his haylage ration. Fibre nuggets shaken through an armful of loose haylage stop him bolting them down, and he still has a net to pick through overnight. A small bucket feed of bran mash with his balancer and anti inflams, also contains sliced carrot and swede.
Big improvement. 80% reduction in free water, firm droppings, no stained bottom, clean tail. Best of all he is holding condition and is happy. Fingers crossed it will continue.

Thanks for the update. That’s really interesting. I think Graze on is too high in sugar for mine, but I will investigate.

 

[Highmileagecob]

I am feeding it with bated breath as mine has had EMS issues in the past. Hopefully sluicing it in water will do the trick.

 

[meleeka]

I just thought I’d update this thread if anyone else is searching and comes across it. I’ve discovered a FB group called Horses with Fecal Water Sydrome which has been really helpful. Going by recommendations on there I’ve cut out most of my mares hay ration and replaced with sugar beet/Happy Hoof and introduced Chia seeds. Her guts are normal for a change. Hay certainly seems like the trigger. The more she eats, the worse it gets.

 

[Sanversera]

Am wondering if colostrum would help

 

[Highmileagecob]

Thanks Meleeka. Long stalk forage is also a trigger for my cob. In the past, when no dental issues were evident, he was a greedy feeder. Nets would be emptied as fast as possible, and with hind sight, he wasn't chewing properly, just stuffing it down. Now we have a few dental issues and the bulk of his 'stay alive' diet is short chop forage, he is dry and clean and very little faecal water was seen last winter. Fingers crossed.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Bumped. For anyone who is interested.

 

[Sanversera]

Has anyone tried adding live yoghurt to the feed?

 

[Highmileagecob]

With my lad, long stalk forage is the trigger. Not sure about yoghurt. Milk proteins are not part of a mature horse's diet and I would be wary of upsetting his insulin levels.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Knocking off the Alfa A has made a big difference. Adding bran and a handful of Fibre Nuggets in its place seems to have a drying effect. He is holding condition at the moment, and is bright and happy. Onwards and upwards.....

 

[poiuytrewq]

I just thought I’d update this thread if anyone else is searching and comes across it. I’ve discovered a FB group called Horses with Fecal Water Sydrome which has been really helpful. Going by recommendations on there I’ve cut out most of my mares hay ration and replaced with sugar beet/Happy Hoof and introduced Chia seeds. Her guts are normal for a change. Hay certainly seems like the trigger. The more she eats, the worse it gets.

I’m interested you have had luck in giving up hay all together.
It’s not been an option for me previously as I’ve had to feed hay in the field, this year I’m not so could in theory switch what my pony eats. I know for a fact my hay is a big cause of his problems.
He’s such a good doer though that I would worry about supplying enough bucket feed to I keep him going for the 8/9 hours he spends stables with out him getting huge!

 

[meleeka]

I’m interested you have had luck in giving up hay all together.
It’s not been an option for me previously as I’ve had to feed hay in the field, this year I’m not so could in theory switch what my pony eats. I know for a fact my hay is a big cause of his problems.
He’s such a good doer though that I would worry about supplying enough bucket feed to I keep him going for the 8/9 hours he spends stables with out him getting huge!

I’m still feeding hay but also giving a trug of Soeedibeet/Haycare/Happy Hoof molasses free. This is reduced the amount of hay she wants to eat dramatically. In the morning she gets 3 round Stubbs scoops (soaked amount) and then hay in the field. It seems she can eat a bit of hay , and at the moment is quite soft hay, but just not the amount she was before. I’d struggle overnight to give her enough hay replacer too.

 

[lauragreen85]

My friend and I each have an elderly cob gelding, and both cobs suffer from faecal water syndrome in the winter. Washing bottoms, tails and feathers in the depths of winter is not pleasant for man nor beast. They are kept at DIY livery with daily turn out. the herd lives well together, and we don't have a bullying problem. Friend's horse has soaked hay, mine has soaked haylage (COPD) each forage is from a different supplier. Small bucket feeds of fast fibre and a balancer are given, and recently they have both had Protexin added to the mix. My cob has better gut sounds, but no appreciable difference to the water content. Common sense tells me that the gut contents are whizzing through before compete removal of free liquid takes place, which would mean that the high fibre diet is maybe too high in fibre. Apart from changing the bucket feed for something inert such as bran, has anyone else had success in drying up the faecal water? I am reluctant to start buying an array of off the shelf products and would prefer to manage this through diet. Both cobs have been regularly tested for Cushings, my 27yo was in regular work until last spring.

Has she tried changing the hay to haylage or the other way about? Sometime older hay works best! New cuts can cause it. if both horses have it i would look at changing the batch asap as my friends horse coliced from FWS

 

[Highmileagecob]

Sadly, my friend's cob has gone to the Eternal Grazing Ground, but mine is still enthusiastic about his food. Equibiome recommended increasing diversity in his diet, and he is also on a very minimal NSAID dose to help with general age related stiffness. This year's haylage is from a completely different area/supplier/grass type, which has not made any difference at all. Big improvements seem to be related to the amount of short chop forage he consumes, but as yet, I feel guilty about leaving him without a net to pick at, and so haven't completely eliminated haylage.

 

[Highmileagecob]

General update for anyone who has been following.
Faecal water has been evident and increasing over the winter., to the point where he has to be washed, whatever the weather. I am seriously wondering whether the worming routine that we all used to follow has caused damage to the gut wall. Any thoughts?

 

[meleeka]

General update for anyone who has been following.
Faecal water has been evident and increasing over the winter., to the point where he has to be washed, whatever the weather. I am seriously wondering whether the worming routine that we all used to follow has caused damage to the gut wall. Any thoughts?

It could be something like that being the cause. Mine is ok as long as I give her a partial hay replacer and soft hay. It seems to be related to the amount of hay she eats. I give her one fold of fine hay twice a day and a bucket of Happy Hoof/Speedibeet. She’s actually a little fat on that but she is only 12hh. If she doesn’t have the hay replacer it starts again, but only mildly at first, so I think gut inflammation must play a part.

 

[holeymoley]

Mine has been okay this winter i’ve not been soaking hay since October and he’s been managing fine in terms of insulin/ems. Been wormed once in February with green equest and seemed fine too.

 

[asmp]

General update for anyone who has been following.
Faecal water has been evident and increasing over the winter., to the point where he has to be washed, whatever the weather. I am seriously wondering whether the worming routine that we all used to follow has caused damage to the gut wall. Any thoughts?

Mine has had it for the first time and it started after I wormed him with Pramox, which he has had once a year for years. Not sure why he’s been affected this time but he’s now on Prascend so that may have be a reason.

He now seems to be over it but it took a while (and some Gut Balancer)

 

[Jambarissa]

I had 2 that were terrible for months. Tried every supplement and everything the vet gave.

They eventually just came right, I think they may have been eating crap in the field, leaves and whatnot, and they finally consumed them all.

I did research gum arabaic and start feeding that around the time they were improving but didn't see any dramatic change so not convinced it's that but I'll continue feeding it anyway.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Bumping