Winter & Turnout!

[Winters100]

We are lucky, I keep mine on a fairly sought after yard (ther is a waiting list) and YO will not accept liveries if they want to keep the horse in all day. Turnout is available dawn to dusk all year round, and the rule is that all horses must go out for minimum half a day unless on box rest. Most of us take the option of all day turnout, even when it was -20 last week my horses were perfectly warm in 300g rugs with hoods. Horses are only kept in if there is some truly dangerous weather, last year this was one day when there was a massive storm and risk of trees coming down.

OP great that you have made the decision to turnout - well done. Don't worry if the horses is a bit silly at first, they settle down when they are going out every day.

 

[Scotsbadboy]

My horses like their stables they like their field .
Getting horses happy in the stable is a knack of mine .
My horses are not stupid they know it’s dry inside it’s warm and easy to lie down. In summer they know there are no flys inside .
Horses lives can be saved by them being good in the stable it’s a good thing that horse is easy about stabling it’s a gift you them .
I get pretty crossed by people saying I won’t put my horse through box rest he’s hates the stable when it because no ones bothered to make the stable a nice comfortable part of life .

I agree, its our responsibility to ensure our horses are quiet and sane in as many situations as possible, stabling being one of them and im thankful all my horses have been good to stable and i rather like this new boys ability to stand in overnight, on his own but that doesnt mean stabling a horse for nearly 24 hours a day, day in day out is acceptable!

I'm on the fence with box rest, I've not had to do it but a friend spent 6 months (possibly five!) with her horse on box rest ... that i dont think i could do but until i am faced with that i wont know.

 

[teddypops]

They do but not in depths of winter I don’t think as he’s on low lying wet clay.

He shared a video one winter of them out in the snow.

 

[VioletStripe]

My friend events at 2* level and when the weather allows has her horses out 24/7, and at least most of the day in winter. She said along the lines of -

'it keeps them fitter for me with less work, they're less stressed and saner to ride, and if they're going to go lame in the field then they'll probably go lame ridden at this level anyway'

(It was implied bar a freak accident re lameness)


I can understand a day in here and there if really required, but no turnout at all as the norm I think is completely cruel and very unhealthy both physically and mentally for a horse. Even a couple of hours a day makes a difference.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I am not sure how a turn out law could work .
Laws have to be framed in simple terms or they are useless .
You can’t say horses must be turned out everyday by law because it in the real world it complicated .
You have a day off you spent the morning clipping your horse and then take it for a long ride then it’s dark so the horse does not get turned can’t do that any more .
Horse cut leg does not need vet needs a clean dry leg for a few days or a poisoned foot dealt with by farrier I would keep that horse in for a few days .
Horses going hunting or a trip for a long hack , not really possible anymore .
Competitions very very difficult in a lot circumstances , international high level competition impossible , a industry destroyed .
What could done is super strict control on the number of horses a livery could have based on its turn out facilities this would cost money , restrict livery places lead to lots of homeless horses and make livery much more expensive .

I think you're going about it the wrong way. That's not what the welfare laws are or would be concerned with. It is when a yard keeps all horses in their stables everyday no matter what.

No one is policing the things you mentioned as they are seen as temporary and for the most part ok. It's when horses are in 24/7 days on end, no reason "just how they live" and it's even more of an issue when there is no window for them to see out of or poor ventilation I guess.

Someone threatened to report a local stable as they had a stallion in the box 24/7 365 with the occasional lunge or light ride. He had no window (I guess part of the issue here), and it wasn't as if he was on box rest, the weather was bad, was being worked, and so on.

No one is concerned with the "small stuff" that you mentioned, in my experience, anyway.

My horses like their stables they like their field .
Getting horses happy in the stable is a knack of mine .
My horses are not stupid they know it’s dry inside it’s warm and easy to lie down. In summer they know there are no flys inside .
Horses lives can be saved by them being good in the stable it’s a good thing that horse is easy about stabling it’s a gift you them .
I get pretty crossed by people saying I won’t put my horse through box rest he’s hates the stable when it because no ones bothered to make the stable a nice comfortable part of life .

I agree with this and I'm fortunate that my horse will tolerate whatever, but there really are horses that don't do well with box rest. May or may not he that owners fault. Some do put an injured horse on a paddock and it works for them.

It's great that somehow some people are able to make a large animal feel comfortable living in a small space (relative to their size) where they lay, eat, pee and poop. Totally unnatural but comfortable! And I do think it is and can be important that they are able to tolerate living in a box, but for some horses it IS uncomfortable due to having arthritis or a respiratory issue, for example. The owner can't help that.

I've not had an issue with any of my personal horses. They've all stayed in a box or a field, or whatever set-up they had to, but I know there are some out there that aren't as easy and I can't necessarily blame the owner.

ETA: apologize for my typos and passionate feelings about the topic ?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

My friend events at 2* level and when the weather allows has her horses out 24/7, and at least most of the day in winter. She said along the lines of -

'it keeps them fitter for me with less work, they're less stressed and saner to ride, and if they're going to go lame in the field then they'll probably go lame ridden at this level anyway'

(It was implied bar a freak accident re lameness)


I can understand a day in here and there if really required, but no turnout at all as the norm I think is completely cruel and very unhealthy both physically and mentally for a horse. Even a couple of hours a day makes a difference.

That was also my way of keeping my (albeit lower-mid level) eventer. Someone was so shocked that I didn't "keep him in so he had energy" we never had a problem with fitness or energy ? I think his moving around on the hills outside did is body better than staying in to preserve every drop of energy...I mean, he was a TB, could go for days even when he wasn't "fit" ?

 

[laura_nash]

I get pretty crossed by people saying I won’t put my horse through box rest he’s hates the stable when it because no ones bothered to make the stable a nice comfortable part of life .

Is that really why though? Being stabled happily, like loading happily, is a fundamental skill for a horse these days and I doubt many people who have a horse that can't be stabled are happy about it or just "haven't bothered" to do anything about it. I've only known one who couldn't be stabled and he was a rescue who'd nearly starved in his so had good reason to hate them.

Saying its cruel to stable full-time due to worries about injuries or yard policy is quite different to saying its cruel to stable at all, not sure anyone on this thread has even suggested that.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Thanks for everyone’s input. Agree with you all! He’s going to be turned out every day now as I agree not fair on him! Thanks everyone!

Good choice and he will thank you for it you could maybe put some boots on him for protection, one of mine can be an idiot he often charges up the field and gallops straight onto the hard standing! It makes me wince but I can't stop him doing it and if his kept in too long he chews holes in his stable door.

 

[AmyMay]

Switzerland, Sweden and Denmark I believe. Don't know details of enforcement, but I did read that since 2008 in Switzerland blocks of individual stables have reduced 25% and track livery setups increased 120%.

And, I believe, Norway.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Picking up on horses that hate being stabled - I had one. I was given her when she was in her 20's. She had been a racehorse and had therefore been stabled a lot in her youth. Having retired from racing she became a broodmare and lived out. After retiring from broodmare duties she continued to live out. I knew her full history, the lady that gave her to me had worked at the stud farm where she was born and had owned her from when she finished racing.

She hated being stabled. She would shake and wouldn't eat or drink. I ended up not even popping her in to wait for the farrier and would tie her outside the stable instead. She was so worried, what was the point in upsetting the old girl?

She did do a tendon and was successfully treated and fully recovered in a small paddock.

It was funny how so many people made daft suggestions about 'getting her used to being stabled'. She was very used to being stabled, she had practically lived in her stable during her racehorse days (I was told this by her former lass) and she knew she hated it. There was no point in trying to change her mind. I could keep her out 24/7 and any serious injury that couldn't be fixed by paddock rest would sadly have been a PTS job.

 

[sherry90]

I think it’s about knowing your horse. There are horses who simply don’t cope being out (domesticated or way they’ve been handled/bought up), ones that simply won’t be stabled either for health reasons it’s better to keep them moving or behavioural reasons eg box walking etc or simply won’t settle.
Mine is in half the day all year round. During winter it’s because we just don’t have the option on the yard I’m on, they go out daily other than when it’s simply too icy to get them out which has been about 3 days so far all winter (on those days he’s hand walked twice a day, worked and hand grazed where it’s safe to do so) then during summer he comes in during the day for a few hours off the grass or he’d simply be obese and laminitic.
I tried 24/7 turnout in summer and he ballooned and got laminitis. In winter, on previous yard we could turn out 24/7 but even though the routine was they stayed out from 6-5 he was at the gate by midday despite them never coming in that early and having more than enough grazing (5 horses on 7 acres). He also went on track livery one summer, he still stood in the barn alot through choice and got bad mud fever even during summer! He much prefers the current set up - is fitter and healthier, and any hint of mud fever is easier to manage when he’s coming in and having some time in the dry.

I would never stable him 24/7 unless instructed to for box rest etc. I don’t mind the odd day in sporadically but it’s no life being locked up consistently.

 

[oldie48]

I wouldn't choose to stable a horse full time and the one time I had a horse on long term box rest, it was quite frankly a nightmare for both of us and I resorted to putting him in a very small paddock which he frequently broke out of. However, managing horses is often a balance between what you would like to be able to offer them and what you can actually offer them. I'm on very heavy clay but am fortunate to have plenty of grazing so even in the wettest weather I could put horses out and still have plenty of grass later on but tbh it was much more difficult to manage Fatties. Where Rose is on full livery currently they are not turning out on grass but there are other options eg huge all weather turnout where they are allowed to have hay, horse walker, big indoor school with the offer of hand walking twice a day if the horse isn't being ridden and a long drive which is great for hand grazing. So it's not ideal but Rose is happy and I'm not going to stress about it. It has the added bonus that her feet are the best they have ever been and she spends a lot of time when stabled on her outdoor area with the other horses. But, I wouldn't keep her like this permanently, this is only while the paddocks are sopping wet. I totally understand why owners worry about injury when horses are turned out but I think once they are in a routine of regular turnout, even it's for a shortish period, soon learn to have a bit of a buck and then get their heads down to graze. I wonder if making sure the pony is hungry before turning out would help? Oh and if he's tricky wear a hat, gloves and boots and put a bit in so you have some control. edit to add picture which makes me smile, Rose is 4th from the top.

 

[Austen123]

I wouldn't choose to stable a horse full time and the one time I had a horse on long term box rest, it was quite frankly a nightmare for both of us and I resorted to putting him in a very small paddock which he frequently broke out of. However, managing horses is often a balance between what you would like to be able to offer them and what you can actually offer them. I'm on very heavy clay but am fortunate to have plenty of grazing so even in the wettest weather I could put horses out and still have plenty of grass later on but tbh it was much more difficult to manage Fatties. Where Rose is on full livery currently they are not turning out on grass but there are other options eg huge all weather turnout where they are allowed to have hay, horse walker, big indoor school with the offer of hand walking twice a day if the horse isn't being ridden and a long drive which is great for hand grazing. So it's not ideal but Rose is happy and I'm not going to stress about it. It has the added bonus that her feet are the best they have ever been and she spends a lot of time when stabled on her outdoor area with the other horses. But, I wouldn't keep her like this permanently, this is only while the paddocks are sopping wet. I totally understand why owners worry about injury when horses are turned out but I think once they are in a routine of regular turnout, even it's for a shortish period, soon learn to have a bit of a buck and then get their heads down to graze. I wonder if making sure the pony is hungry before turning out would help? Oh and if he's tricky wear a hat, gloves and boots and put a bit in so you have some control. edit to add picture which makes me smile, Rose is 4th from the top.View attachment 64751

Where is this livery!? it looks amazing!

 

[meleeka]

I have a friend who says her cob loves his stable and can’t stay out all night in summer as he’s too tired to do any work the next day and he might get laminitis. He’s truly obese, due to getting ad-lib hay and spending most of his life standing still. I want to point out to her that a) He’s a cob, so the sharp ride she wants is possibly just not his natural character and b). He’s likely to be less of a laminitis risk if he’s out at least part of the day during the winter to get some exercise. It was very sad seeing him sweating in his stable in the summer, with no hope of a shady tree to roll under

People are odd.

 

[Annagain]

I'm glad you've decided to turn him out. My boys and their field mates are out for about 12 hours every day in winter, 24/7 in summer no matter the weather. Three of them are oldies, the other three between 6 and 12. While they all enjoy a bit of a play (well, all except the anti-social one!) they very rarely go mad because it's so normal for them to be out there. Hopefully once it's 'normal' for your boy he'll settle to it too and be less of a hooligan.

 

[Scotsbadboy]

I wouldn't choose to stable a horse full time and the one time I had a horse on long term box rest, it was quite frankly a nightmare for both of us and I resorted to putting him in a very small paddock which he frequently broke out of. However, managing horses is often a balance between what you would like to be able to offer them and what you can actually offer them. I'm on very heavy clay but am fortunate to have plenty of grazing so even in the wettest weather I could put horses out and still have plenty of grass later on but tbh it was much more difficult to manage Fatties. Where Rose is on full livery currently they are not turning out on grass but there are other options eg huge all weather turnout where they are allowed to have hay, horse walker, big indoor school with the offer of hand walking twice a day if the horse isn't being ridden and a long drive which is great for hand grazing. So it's not ideal but Rose is happy and I'm not going to stress about it. It has the added bonus that her feet are the best they have ever been and she spends a lot of time when stabled on her outdoor area with the other horses. But, I wouldn't keep her like this permanently, this is only while the paddocks are sopping wet. I totally understand why owners worry about injury when horses are turned out but I think once they are in a routine of regular turnout, even it's for a shortish period, soon learn to have a bit of a buck and then get their heads down to graze. I wonder if making sure the pony is hungry before turning out would help? Oh and if he's tricky wear a hat, gloves and boots and put a bit in so you have some control. edit to add picture which makes me smile, Rose is 4th from the top.View attachment 64751

Good lord you need to take more pics of this yard and share, it looks great

 

[oldie48]

Where is this livery!? it looks amazing!

Near to Corse Lawn, Glos just 15 mins down the road from where I live. PM me if it's of interest. I didn't even know it existed until my sharer moved her horse there.

 

[chocolategirl]

Sorry, but I don't buy this argument. Assuming your an adult and not in some kind of modern slavery / coercive control situation then its your decision to live where you live, to have a horse and to keep it at this yard. So its your decision to keep it in for what, 2-3 months every year. I'm sure some horses cope, but is cope good enough. As someone has already said this would be illegal in some countries and for good reason. If people didn't keep horses at these yards, they would have to put their prices up and invest in proper all weather turnout rather than a single old lunge pen.

Coping or withdrawing into themselves? I believe for most it’s the latter. I’ve had this argument with so many people over the years, you can indoctrinate your horse to make it think it prefers to be in prison, but it doesn’t make it right does it? If I had to keep mine in because of bad weather, I wouldn’t have them, simple?‍

 

[Jess Blenkiron]

Thanks for the advice from everyone!
I would just like to state, I don’t do this all year round, it was just seeing what people do in winter! He will live out in summer, unless we have a show next day!
I wiuld like to clarify he is not on box rest and is not in 24/7, he has access to turn out pen, Walker, and is ridden daily! So isn’t in 24/7! Does get out every day! I was just wondering if there was others like this for the winter who restrict their turnout! I will start turning him out in the field when the yard allows!
sorry for any miscommunication, I would never leave him in 24/7 if there was no need too!
Can’t wait for summer, hate the cold and miserable weather

 

[windand rain]

Another that wouldn't keep a horse in more than dark hours and in winter that would also be something I would not condone, mine live out 24/7 from geriatrics to foals. The bigger the area the less they damage the ground the only time mine move faster than a gentle amble is when food is served. The youngsters will play but never long enough for me to get the phone out of my pocket to film them. One thing I do think is all horses should be able to be stabled just as all dogs should be happy crated just incase they need to on vets advice. The question I wuld ask is how long do you think you could live in your bathroom not coming out for more than a walk round in circles, with another person 10 feet in front, as your view for 30 minutes then straight back to your bathrom all food and bedding in the bathroom for you. It is anthropomorphism but it is also true if you believe horses are sentient beings.
Horses that love their stables is usually due to conditioning and the fact food is supplied in there my guess if there was no food they would at most use them like field shelters to get out of the flies in summer. My event horses and TB broodmares all lived outside the mares unrugged. They were very settled in stables for competition and foaling. I currently dont have access to stables but from time to time the youngsters will go on livery for a week or two to learn that discipline too

 

[teddypops]

Near to Corse Lawn, Glos just 15 mins down the road from where I live. PM me if it's of interest. I didn't even know it existed until my sharer moved her horse there.

I live near there and didn’t know it existed either! Is it near Moore’s farm?

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I have got one that WONT stay out. He has a lovely field he could go out in all day and night if he wanted. 10 mins out if that is his llimit. I have tried everything. One the exercise front be careful if you are restricted in the activity you can currently do. I was exercising my lad twice a day because he wont go out. I'm currently restricted to just our school. I now have an over fit tb that is bursting to do other stuff and cant. I gave had to cut his exercise right back and just gave him out of the stable twice a day for movement rather than exercise to let him down a bit. So far it's working.

 

[jnb]

Does he jump out of the field then @Fern007 ? I can see that would be a problem....

 

[Tarragon]

I think it is worth mentioning that turnout doesn't have to mean eating grass in a field. I think it can just as easily be turn out for a few hours into an all weather play pen with a haynet to much on and a friend to play with, or it can be an open yard or barn set up where there again is room to play and socialise.
Don't get me wrong, my two native ponies are field kept and hairy and it suits them and me to a tee and it is my personal preferred set-up, but I think that a horse that is clipped and worked everyday in a busy yard, with a few hours of "turnout" to relax is probably just as healthy, both mentally and bodily.
I have to make sacrifices in the winter months to support my setup and that will not suit everyone. For example, I don't ride if they are going to get hot under their thick coats as they are unrugged and need it, and some days I feel that they have enough on their plates just surviving the appalling weather!

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Does he jump out of the field then @Fern007 ? I can see that would be a problem....

He hasn't yet but it's only a matter of time. He flat out gallops round screaming. I have tried absolutely everything to settle him but he wont have it. If left he just carries on and on and I'm sure he would do himself a terrible injury .

 

[Kat]

My horses like their stables they like their field .
Getting horses happy in the stable is a knack of mine .
My horses are not stupid they know it’s dry inside it’s warm and easy to lie down. In summer they know there are no flys inside .
Horses lives can be saved by them being good in the stable it’s a good thing that horse is easy about stabling it’s a gift you them .
I get pretty crossed by people saying I won’t put my horse through box rest he’s hates the stable when it because no ones bothered to make the stable a nice comfortable part of life .

I would love to know how you do this.

Mine doesn't particularly like being kept in. She's ok in her routine of in overnight in winter and for a few hours in the day during summer but gets wound up if kept in out of her routine (eg for the farrier/vet) and doesn't settle very well for box rest.

I've owned her since she was 4 and she's always had a nice comfortable stable with company in sight. We've gone to quite some effort to make her happy, changing her stable, different view, different neighbours, blocking bars off, moving things around etc.

She's got a bit better over the years but I still worry about having to box rest her.

 

[southerncomfort]

I have a friend who says her cob loves his stable and can’t stay out all night in summer as he’s too tired to do any work the next day and he might get laminitis. He’s truly obese, due to getting ad-lib hay and spending most of his life standing still. I want to point out to her that a) He’s a cob, so the sharp ride she wants is possibly just not his natural character and b). He’s likely to be less of a laminitis risk if he’s out at least part of the day during the winter to get some exercise. It was very sad seeing him sweating in his stable in the summer, with no hope of a shady tree to roll under

People are odd.

I have 3 natives and this year they've been out every day in all weathers, mostly 24/7 except when the weather is truly atrocious.

I'm absolutely thrilled with how they look. They are lovely and slim, just perfect for going in to spring which is a great weight off my mind, especially with my mini shetland. I've found that if she is stabled for more than 2 nights in a row the weight starts creeping up again and I'm very strict with her hay rations.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Sorry, but I don't buy this argument. Assuming your an adult and not in some kind of modern slavery / coercive control situation then its your decision to live where you live, to have a horse and to keep it at this yard. So its your decision to keep it in for what, 2-3 months every year. I'm sure some horses cope, but is cope good enough. As someone has already said this would be illegal in some countries and for good reason. If people didn't keep horses at these yards, they would have to put their prices up and invest in proper all weather turnout rather than a single old lunge pen.

Well aren't you perfect!
Shall I just go and live on the other side of the country then?
You are welcome to come and find a yard in this county that isn't on clay. Maybe no one in the county should have a horse then?
We actually do have a surfaced area to turn out it , which is more than most yards around here. Most yards either don't turn out at all or put them in knee deep mud. My horse would refuse to go out in that.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I would love to know how you do this.

Mine doesn't particularly like being kept in. She's ok in her routine of in overnight in winter and for a few hours in the day during summer but gets wound up if kept in out of her routine (eg for the farrier/vet) and doesn't settle very well for box rest.

I've owned her since she was 4 and she's always had a nice comfortable stable with company in sight. We've gone to quite some effort to make her happy, changing her stable, different view, different neighbours, blocking bars off, moving things around etc.

She's got a bit better over the years but I still worry about having to box rest her.

All my horses have chosen to be in over being out in wet and mud as over here we basically have just mud in the winter.
You put them out and pretty soon if not straight away they start running at the fence line or waiting at the gate. My late IDx in fact refused to go out in such foul conditions- you couldn't drag him down the track if you tried.
I appreciate some horses just don't like the confinement and would choose the rain and mud over stable but in my experience those horses are few and far between.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Sorry, but I don't buy this argument. Assuming your an adult and not in some kind of modern slavery / coercive control situation then its your decision to live where you live, to have a horse and to keep it at this yard. So its your decision to keep it in for what, 2-3 months every year. I'm sure some horses cope, but is cope good enough. As someone has already said this would be illegal in some countries and for good reason. If people didn't keep horses at these yards, they would have to put their prices up and invest in proper all weather turnout rather than a single old lunge pen.

There are yards here that say no turn out Nov-March. End of. I couldn't do that. At least ours depends on how the ground holds up. A lot of people don't seem to mind but I couldn't do that.