Winter & Turnout!

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Is that really why though? Being stabled happily, like loading happily, is a fundamental skill for a horse these days and I doubt many people who have a horse that can't be stabled are happy about it or just "haven't bothered" to do anything about it. I've only known one who couldn't be stabled and he was a rescue who'd nearly starved in his so had good reason to hate them.

Saying its cruel to stable full-time due to worries about injuries or yard policy is quite different to saying its cruel to stable at all, not sure anyone on this thread has even suggested that.

I have only ever had one horse who didn't like to be stabled when we got her, she soon learned that it was actually rather nice to be warm and dry but I have said several times on here and I stand by it, one reason that I do not insure my horses is that I would not want to put them through any invasive procedure that necessitated prolonged box-rest. Many of those procedures have a very poor long-term prognosis anyway. I don't think it is fair to keep a horse in a stable full time for months when it doesn't understand why, even if it is well behaved in the stable.

 

[Jess Blenkiron]

Well aren't you perfect!
Shall I just go and live on the other side of the country then?
You are welcome to come and find a yard in this county that isn't on clay. Maybe no one in the county should have a horse then?
We actually do have a surfaced area to turn out it , which is more than most yards around here. Most yards either don't turn out at all or put them in knee deep mud. My horse would refuse to go out in that.

Its a lot like this where I live at the moment, however did manage him to get out a bit today! What county are you in?

 

[DabDab]

Switzerland, Sweden and Denmark I believe. Don't know details of enforcement, but I did read that since 2008 in Switzerland blocks of individual stables have reduced 25% and track livery setups increased 120%.

Switzerland don't enforce turnout, they make it illegal to keep a horse without visual, auditory, etc simulation of their own kind. Basically they can't be kept alone. And horses under 2.5yrs have to be kept in a herd all the time. Hence the uptick in track systems and group barns instead of stabling.

Prior to the legislation Switzerland was quite different to the UK in that horses really weren't turned out much at all. Encouraging group housing does kind of force the turnout issue though as it is by far the easiest way to keep horses as a group.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Its a lot like this where I live at the moment, however did manage him to get out a bit today! What county are you in?

I'm in the south West.
Some of our paddocks are actually under water, you can't even walk in there let alone put a horse in there.
I hand graze most days and my boy likes having a roll in the turn out pen. As soon as the ground recovers we can start turning out again. We do have field liveries as well , those fields are not great to put in mildly and most of the field horses come in for a few days or a week at a time just to give them a break and treat their mud fever etc.
The days when we have been able to turn out mine wants to come in after a few hours anyway so I don't think he's too hard done by at the moment.

 

[Kat]

All my horses have chosen to be in over being out in wet and mud as over here we basically have just mud in the winter.
You put them out and pretty soon if not straight away they start running at the fence line or waiting at the gate. My late IDx in fact refused to go out in such foul conditions- you couldn't drag him down the track if you tried.
I appreciate some horses just don't like the confinement and would choose the rain and mud over stable but in my experience those horses are few and far between.

Mine will wait at the gate when the rest of the herd start to go in but she will happily stay out in vile weather. She is rugged well but it is an exposed hillside just outside the peak district, there are trees and walls for shelter but no field shelter building ?. We don't feed in the field either and she is never desparate to come in.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Picking up on horses that hate being stabled - I had one. I was given her when she was in her 20's. She had been a racehorse and had therefore been stabled a lot in her youth. Having retired from racing she became a broodmare and lived out. After retiring from broodmare duties she continued to live out. I knew her full history, the lady that gave her to me had worked at the stud farm where she was born and had owned her from when she finished racing.

She hated being stabled. She would shake and wouldn't eat or drink. I ended up not even popping her in to wait for the farrier and would tie her outside the stable instead. She was so worried, what was the point in upsetting the old girl?

She did do a tendon and was successfully treated and fully recovered in a small paddock.

It was funny how so many people made daft suggestions about 'getting her used to being stabled'. She was very used to being stabled, she had practically lived in her stable during her racehorse days (I was told this by her former lass) and she knew she hated it. There was no point in trying to change her mind. I could keep her out 24/7 and any serious injury that couldn't be fixed by paddock rest would sadly have been a PTS job.

I have had 2 horses that really dislike being stabled for long periods, my mare hated being in and she had 2 long stints of box rest for tendon injuries, and she chewed the door really badly even being sedated she wasn't settled unfortunately I lost her in 2015, but I have Louis now and he is very similar he actually continued to add to the hole she started on the door! I now tend to tie him up outside a lot he just seems happier, I tried a chain on the door but he just barges through them and he is a really good escape artist.

 

[Tihamandturkey]

I would love to know how you do this.

Mine doesn't particularly like being kept in. She's ok in her routine of in overnight in winter and for a few hours in the day during summer but gets wound up if kept in out of her routine (eg for the farrier/vet) and doesn't settle very well for box rest.

I've owned her since she was 4 and she's always had a nice comfortable stable with company in sight. We've gone to quite some effort to make her happy, changing her stable, different view, different neighbours, blocking bars off, moving things around etc.

She's got a bit better over the years but I still worry about having to box rest her.

I could have written this nearly word for word except that my mare hasn't got better with age unfortunately ? had her since she was 3 - is now 11

 

[laura_nash]

Well aren't you perfect!
Shall I just go and live on the other side of the country then?
You are welcome to come and find a yard in this county that isn't on clay. Maybe no one in the county should have a horse then?
We actually do have a surfaced area to turn out it , which is more than most yards around here. Most yards either don't turn out at all or put them in knee deep mud. My horse would refuse to go out in that.

I'm certainly not perfect, but yes if you can't provide a suitable environment to keep a horse you shouldn't keep one (not saying that you personally can't, just a general "you"). Just like if you can't afford to keep one you shouldn't. Owning a horse is not a fundamental human right.

Not sure why moving in order to live somewhere more suited to your hobby is such an odd idea, people do it all the time. Personally I moved country partly because my old horse now can't be stabled at all for veterinary reasons. I've also known people who kept their horse on full grass livery and only saw it at the weekend because there was no where they were prepared to keep it close to them.

I've lived in south Wales, Somerset and now south west Ireland, so not the driest or best drained, and always managed decent turnout or other suitable living conditions (free access yard, all weather turnout for 5 hrs a day etc). There are always options.

I've also known horses stabled full time who were happy and healthy but they were worked 4-5 hours a day and had lots of human and equine interaction when not working.

 

[oldie48]

I'm certainly not perfect, but yes if you can't provide a suitable environment to keep a horse you shouldn't keep one (not saying that you personally can't, just a general "you"). Just like if you can't afford to keep one you shouldn't. Owning a horse is not a fundamental human right.

Not sure why moving in order to live somewhere more suited to your hobby is such an odd idea, people do it all the time. Personally I moved country partly because my old horse now can't be stabled at all for veterinary reasons. I've also known people who kept their horse on full grass livery and only saw it at the weekend because there was no where they were prepared to keep it close to them.

I've lived in south Wales, Somerset and now south west Ireland, so not the driest or best drained, and always managed decent turnout or other suitable living conditions (free access yard, all weather turnout for 5 hrs a day etc). There are always options.

I've also known horses stabled full time who were happy and healthy but they were worked 4-5 hours a day and had lots of human and equine interaction when not working.

I don't think that everyone would agree on what is a suitable environment though and horses have changed as a result of domestication and breeding so I think individual horses and ponies can have somewhat different needs eg My little TB could have been on 24/7 turnout on my paddocks and he'd have been fine that is until he got cushings in his 20's but all the Welsh ponies I've had would have died as basically they needed to live on the side of a mountain eating the moss off stones (joking, obviously). When we bought our place we had a lot of priorities, could my OH travel to work, access to a motorways/train station/airport as my job involved a lot of travel, were there decent schools and could we get child to them and get to work in time, what could we afford and then we looked at needs for the horse and pony that we had at that time because without putting all the first things in place we couldn't move. I'll be honest the fact we were on heavy clay was more of an issue for the garden as we are both very keen garderners but it was pretty low down the list. I think you are very fortunate to be able to move around for the needs of your horse and I applaud you. However, that's not an option for everyone and you only have to read the very numerous posts on here to see that the vast majority of people are doing their very best for their horses, may not be perfect but for most horses it is good enough and they are certainly far away from being welfare cases, even if they come short of the standard that you set for yourself.

 

[Sossigpoker]

My horse is actually very happy. He has a routine, he looks forward to going out for a roll and to catch some rays (if we're lucky) and he's also very relaxed in his stable.
So no, I won't be quitting my well paid job and moving to the other side of the country for better draining ground.
I would love the ground to be perfect and allow year round turn out regardless of torrential rain but as my horse is perfectly happy I'm not going to get too stressed about it

 

[poiuytrewq]

Thanks for everyone’s input. Agree with you all! He’s going to be turned out every day now as I agree not fair on him! Thanks everyone!

Well done! I think you’ve made the correct choice. Boot him up maybe and look the other way ??

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

One livery on the yard I was at had a horse in 24/7 as she was a showjumper and worth a good amount of money - if turned out it was said she would go mad and injure herself, I always thought that it was a vicious cycle and that the lack of turnout probably was the cause for this. She wasn't worked everyday either. Another on that yard wouldn't go out on owners orders if it was raining. I tried to adopt the 'not my circus not my monkeys' attitude but it really was depressing to see it; the yard had the best grazing/turnout I have come across too!

 

[laura_nash]

My horse is actually very happy. He has a routine, he looks forward to going out for a roll and to catch some rays (if we're lucky) and he's also very relaxed in his stable.
So no, I won't be quitting my well paid job and moving to the other side of the country for better draining ground.
I would love the ground to be perfect and allow year round turn out regardless of torrential rain but as my horse is perfectly happy I'm not going to get too stressed about it

Its not really about the ground though, you seem to be stuck on turnout being in a field, its about having the facilities whether thats a field or a surfaced area or whatever it is for the horse to be free to move around and socialise for a decent period of the day. If your horse is happy then fine, there's never any immovable rules for horses as one will always come along and break it, but your original post strongly implied he wasn't and this was somehow outside your control so "oh well".

 

[WelshD]

I also show.
My two ponies go out nearly every day in winter.
if the surface of the field has standing water they may have the odd day in. One of my ponies has been at a few producers yards and it’s clear that turnout wasn’t always available to him, he was very switched off when stabled and a string of bad behaviour uncovered ulcers. Since then I have made huge efforts to keep him happier - now he will stay in or out but he clearly enjoys both the field and the stable for different reasons - the change in his demeanour is heartening. Before I would have said he was ‘happy’ to stay in but I do think an element of that was being resigned to it.
Yes he may injure or blemish himself but it’s a risk you have to weigh up.
Since we have made an effort to vary his life he can’t stop winning and I think people are surprised how well he is doing.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Its not really about the ground though, you seem to be stuck on turnout being in a field, its about having the facilities whether thats a field or a surfaced area or whatever it is for the horse to be free to move around and socialise for a decent period of the day. If your horse is happy then fine, there's never any immovable rules for horses as one will always come along and break it, but your original post strongly implied he wasn't and this was somehow outside your control so "oh well".

Well it is outside of my control as all land around here is heavy clay and i wouldn't put my horse out in knee deep mud.

 

[laura_nash]

Well it is outside of my control as all land around here is heavy clay and i wouldn't put my horse out in knee deep mud.

This is my last comment on this thread as I feel I'm starting to repeat myself. It is NOT outside your control.

You can find a yard with all weather turnout or stables with pens or other arrangements, you can move, you can keep your horse further away, you can turn him out in knee deep mud, you can not have a horse. His living conditions are down to you and your choices.

If you feel he is happy as he is, as you now say, then fine. If you feel it isn't ideal but he has to cope in return for all the good things he gets from you (food, vet treatment etc) and after all he could have it much worse then fine. If you feel no winter turnout for the horse is a small price to pay for a floodlit school or some other higher priority facilities, whatever, but own your decision.

Just don't pretend you are somehow forced to have a horse and keep it on a yard with no winter turnout by forces beyond your control. Take some responsibility.

 

[Sossigpoker]

This is my last comment on this thread as I feel I'm starting to repeat myself. It is NOT outside your control.

You can find a yard with all weather turnout or stables with pens or other arrangements, you can move, you can keep your horse further away, you can turn him out in knee deep mud, you can not have a horse. His living conditions are down to you and your choices.

If you feel he is happy as he is, as you now say, then fine. If you feel it isn't ideal but he has to cope in return for all the good things he gets from you (food, vet treatment etc) and after all he could have it much worse then fine. If you feel no winter turnout for the horse is a small price to pay for a floodlit school or some other higher priority facilities, whatever, but own your decision.

Just don't pretend you are somehow forced to have a horse and keep it on a yard with no winter turnout by forces beyond your control. Take some responsibility.

But we do have turnout pens ??
You just love to preach from your perfect position, don't you?
And think you're somehow superior because you think turning out in knee deep mud and getting injured I somehow preferable to no turn out.

 

[windand rain]

Nope never saw anyone advocating turnout to deliberately injure a horse. Every horse I have personally know has either injured itself in a stable, when being ridden or on the road. Rarely in a field and never as far as I remember over 60 years in a turnout pen or mud free zone. The worst injury was when someone forgot to lock the bottom of the stable door the horse self amputated its leg from the pastern down. Not saying injuries dont happen in small herds living out 24/7 but they are rare as the horses tend not to gallop around but just mosey from place to place grazing or snoozing. Trying to justify keeping a horse in 24/7 is just trying to justify cruelty

 

[windand rain]

If you leave out the grass does better
clay soil with about an inch of sand on top. lying in about 3 inches of water

 

[Winters100]

One livery on the yard I was at had a horse in 24/7 as she was a showjumper and worth a good amount of money - if turned out it was said she would go mad and injure herself, I always thought that it was a vicious cycle and that the lack of turnout probably was the cause for this. She wasn't worked everyday either. Another on that yard wouldn't go out on owners orders if it was raining. I tried to adopt the 'not my circus not my monkeys' attitude but it really was depressing to see it; the yard had the best grazing/turnout I have come across too!

I can imagine that it is quite depressing to see that. A friend of mine is at one of the top yards here, she has 4 of the best horses on the yard (1 olympic prospect) and they go out every day rain or shine. She cannot understand how mid-level competition horses are kept in to supposedly 'protect' them and her favorite answer when the grooms ask 'you really want them out in this' is 'yes, they are not made of sugar'

 

[Arzada]

I can imagine that it is quite depressing to see that. A friend of mine is at one of the top yards here, she has 4 of the best horses on the yard (1 olympic prospect) and they go out every day rain or shine. She cannot understand how mid-level competition horses are kept in to supposedly 'protect' them and her favorite answer when the grooms ask 'you really want them out in this' is 'yes, they are not made of sugar'

I've never been able to forget my first experience with horses not being turned out. I didn't know it happened. Decades ago the horses of a dressage rider whose name escapes me (probably best) never allowed her 2 Olympic prospects to be turned out. Neither made the Olympics. One died of colic and the other of something else.

 

[Winters100]

Nope never saw anyone advocating turnout to deliberately injure a horse. Every horse I have personally know has either injured itself in a stable, when being ridden or on the road. Rarely in a field and never as far as I remember over 60 years in a turnout pen or mud free zone. The worst injury was when someone forgot to lock the bottom of the stable door the horse self amputated its leg from the pastern down. Not saying injuries dont happen in small herds living out 24/7 but they are rare as the horses tend not to gallop around but just mosey from place to place grazing or snoozing. Trying to justify keeping a horse in 24/7 is just trying to justify cruelty

I have seen a horse injured badly while turned out. It was a horse I sold just over 2 years ago, and he was turned out daily with a pack during this time. A few months ago he was (probably, it was unseen) kicked, and he broke a leg.

Terribly sad, they gave him a chance and tried surgery, but he didn't pull through.

If I could go back in time and change it would I sell instead to a home where he would be kept 'safe' in the box? Never. He was a valuable horse, but still had the best life that they could give him, living as a horse should. Yes it was unlucky, but I would rather this any day of the week than him existing rather than living.