Winter turnout

[poiuytrewq]

Mine are difficult as they have different needs. I’d rather my old lad out 24/7 but he refused and gets really upset!
So he lives life with my ridden horse. Out everyday rain or shine at 6.45 am, In at 10.30 to ride (old one loose on the yard with a net)
Out again until about 4 or later if possible but I need to cross the road so try to bring in before dark.
I’d love to leave out but my ridden horse escapes In the night and got on the road.
My ponies I play by ear. They go out daily but usually stay in a turnout pen until after I ride (avoiding frost is the idea)
Retired TB is out at a friends 24/7. I’m unsure about that, he’s the one I struggle with.

 

[Sossigpoker]

This is the first winter I've had mine at home and because the grass is only a couple of years old I've restricted them (two Arabs) to about half an acre while we've overseeded the rest of the land and intend to rest it until Spring.

Obviously there's not much grass so I put hay out each day.

My dilemma is - if it's bucketing it down and they are just miserable and hanging about in the mud, is this really any better for them than coming in and standing in their stable, with dry legs?

Older horse much prefers to be in - it's how he lived as a colt on a stud yard and he's never got the hang of enjoying the outdoor life in bad weather. 2 year old lies down and has an afternoon nap if I bring him in early, which must surely be good for his growing body and mind?

If the choice is either standing in deep mud or standing in a stable, I wouldn't say either option is ideal.

 

[Fieldlife]

If it’s good enough for Carl Hester, it’s good enough for me. I can’t bear the people who say ‘he’s expensive, I don’t want to break him’.
The amount of rehabs I get in who have been injured or colicked due to lack of turnout is quite astonishing.

AFAIK whilst Carl loves turnout, he’s on wet flood land, and clay and he also has pretty limited turnout in depths of winter.

 

[Fieldlife]

The problem is if you have a lack of livery yard choice, can get tricky.

Too many yards have too little land. Or enough land but it’s bottomless clay in winter.

I travel further to be on chalk and my horse is out on a track / equi central system. But where I am there aren’t many choices for decent winter turnout.

most either don’t turnout, barely turnout or turnout onto quagmire.

A lot of local land is clay! I’ve done a bad winter on low lying clay. When horses didn’t want to be out (no restrictions). And won’t do that again.

 

[Sossigpoker]

The problem is if you have a lack of livery yard choice, can get tricky.

Too many yards have too little land. Or enough land but it’s bottomless clay in winter.



A lot of local land is clay! I’ve done a bad winter on low lying clay. When horses didn’t want to be out (no restrictions). And won’t do that again.

Clay is just the worst! IMO if the yard is on heavy clay, they should put in all weather turn out areas. I've been on a yard with loads of land but as it's clay , it gets churned up badly and so quickly.

 

[Ratface]

Old Horse goes out around 8am and comes in about 16:30-17:00pm. The grazing is adequate, he's got company to tear about with, if/when he wants to, and is in overnight with a deep straw bed and ad lib hay.
In Summer, he's out about 10 hours a day, again with company and comes in to a token bucket feed and a net of hay overnight. He's on a thick, full straw bed in Summer, as well.

 

[Starzaan]

AFAIK whilst Carl loves turnout, he’s on wet flood land, and clay and he also has pretty limited turnout in depths of winter.

He’s not far from me, and they definitely do go out every day, even in the depths of winter.

 

[Fieldlife]

He’s not far from me, and they definitely do go out every day, even in the depths of winter.

I asked him the question on a tour and my memory is him saying he was on wet flood plain land and a lot of his fields were too wet to use in winter..

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Mine is 24/7 in summer.

Winter it depends on the weather, dry and cold out in the day.
If raining for days and days on end then the yard do shut the feilds. Not for long though and then they can go out for about 3 ish hours which is enough otherwise they are stood at the gate anyway.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Limited or no turnout in winter is a real horse care and management issue. IMHO even a hour a day is far better than zero turnout, but that presumes a fit healthy horse that can also be worked daily.

I'm lucky here. We're on loam over sand, whereas it's clay just across the main road. Mine can live out all year on a not huge acreage. I only have to keep in if the field is dangerously icy. The field shelters are a complete godsend - the horses love them and I can hay up in them - meaning that the fields get much less cut up than before I had them.

There's a 4 page vet special in the current H&H on how best to cope when keeping horses in without turnout over winter. I don't seem to be able to link to the article, and I'll get my knuckles rapped if I screenshot the text, but this is the headline. Pages 38,39,40,42.




ETA ycbm, I'm sorry to hear that you've forced off that wonder yard with such fabulous facilities on tap because of the restricted/lack of winter turnout ?.

 

[scats]

I asked him the question on a tour and my memory is him saying he was on wet flood plain land and a lot of his fields were too wet to use in winter..

There’s definitely been times they’ve had to be in, due to the flooding. I remember him on something talking about the fields just starting to dry out from flooding so the horses were going back out after some time in. I’m fairly sure that was that exceptionally wet winter we had a few years ago though.
Freak weather events can’t be helped and sometimes safety has to override. My girls don’t go in their bigger field in high winds because it’s lined with trees and a load have already come down in storms. I’m fortunate to have many other fields to use though.

 

[Starzaan]

I asked him the question on a tour and my memory is him saying he was on wet flood plain land and a lot of his fields were too wet to use in winter..

Yep, his low lying fields are flat as pancakes and turn into quagmires in winter, but all the horses still do get turned out. They can’t live out full time over winter, but they do go out every day.

 

[mini-eventer]

we are on clay, we have turn out 247 spring summer, they came in over night 2 weeks ago. However once the fields get wet we move into turnout pens, usually December to March ish weather dependent. It is not ideal but locally the other options is you get turn out but if the fields get very wet they close them which can be the odd week, or a month. At least I know mine can get out every day regardless. The pens are not huge and I do feel guilty at times.

 

[nikkimariet]

I’d accept restricted turnout in lieu of acceptable options on the basis that ‘saving’ the ground over winter meant more turnout over summer too.

Unless it’s very young / had a break / rehab etc I do not allow lunging either.

 

[paddi22]

I wonder will more yards have to do versions of this sort of set up? I'd imagine it's too cost prohibitive for most yards?
https://www.annaharveyfarm.ie/aktiv...UdiZ-L6Q1u9XuohOaRy1oqc2pSFHXsxsYWJvojgc8W9xo

 

[Gallop_Away]

I think lack of turnout is become an all too common trend amongst livery yards. I think too many horses on too little land is one likely cause, but personally as a paying client I would be happy to pay more in livery to ensure adequate turnout.

Yards also should keep in mind that turnout need not consist of grass, but other forms of turnout are also possible. The main point is that horses get time outside of their stable for "down time" with other horses so that they may move freely, stretch legs and socialise. That doesn't necessarily need to happen on grass.

 

[SantaVera]

mine are out 24/7

 

[Sealine]

I'm on DIY livery with herd turnout. In winter we have daytime turnout only but we can turnout any time after 6.30am and although there is no restriction on bringing in we generally get them in before dark. If there is thick snow on the ground we tend to turn out in pairs for one hour twice a day but that is our choice.

 

[Miss_Millie]

I think that lack of turnout in the UK is the biggest horse welfare issue in this country. It is normalised that huge mammals are kept standing in small boxes, often for the majority of the day, especially during the winter. If a tiger was kept in a small room at a zoo, would that be deemed acceptable? I don't think so. Remember how we all felt during lockdown when we were only allowed to leave our houses for one hour a day? And even then, we weren't confined to one room.

Turnout isn't just about movement (which is obviously extremely important to both physical and emotional wellbeing) - it is enrichment - mutual grooming, rolling, foraging for plants, and a level of freedom and autonomy for the horse to choose what they would like to do. If a horse is stabled all day and their only exercise is when they are ridden, their life is micro-managed to the point that they have very little freedom of choice. That just doesn't seem fair to me.

I know that lots of people will say 'oh my horse loves to be stabled', but I have also observed that many people don't know how to recognise basic stress signals in horses. People think of the obvious behaviours like weaving and cribbing, but excessive blinking and a tight jaw on an otherwise stoic horse, is a horse which is deeply stressed. There is also an element of learned helplessness - the horse has accepted that there is nothing they can do to change the situation, and thus shuts down.

Now before people comment that I'm being unrealistic and idealistic...I get that most yards do not offer 24/7 turnout, or anything close to that. The horses that are lucky enough to have this freedom of movement are probably mostly kept on privately owned land. But I DO think that there is a big mental disconnect with many equestrians about what horse would prefer vs. what they think looks tidy, what is easy to manage and convenient etc.

It is a big topic, and I know that it isn't black and white. But I think that a huge number of horses in this country are being kept in less than ideal conditions as far as their basic needs being met.

 

[Gallop_Away]

I think that lack of turnout in the UK is the biggest horse welfare issue in this country. It is normalised that huge mammals are kept standing in small boxes, often for the majority of the day, especially during the winter. If a tiger was kept in a small room at a zoo, would that be deemed acceptable? I don't think so. Remember how we all felt during lockdown when we were only allowed to leave our houses for one hour a day? And even then, we weren't confined to one room.

Turnout isn't just about movement (which is obviously extremely important to both physical and emotional wellbeing) - it is enrichment - mutual grooming, rolling, foraging for plants, and a level of freedom and autonomy for the horse to choose what they would like to do. If a horse is stabled all day and their only exercise is when they are ridden, their life is micro-managed to the point that they have very little freedom of choice. That just doesn't seem fair to me.

I know that lots of people will say 'oh my horse loves to be stabled', but I have also observed that many people don't know how to recognise basic stress signals in horses. People think of the obvious behaviours like weaving and cribbing, but excessive blinking and a tight jaw on an otherwise stoic horse, is a horse which is deeply stressed. There is also an element of learned helplessness - the horse has accepted that there is nothing they can do to change the situation, and thus shuts down.

Now before people comment that I'm being unrealistic and idealistic...I get that most yards do not offer 24/7 turnout, or anything close to that. The horses that are lucky enough to have this freedom of movement are probably mostly kept on privately owned land. But I DO think that there is a big mental disconnect with many equestrians about what horse would prefer vs. what they think looks tidy, what is easy to manage and convenient etc.

It is a big topic, and I know that it isn't black and white. But I think that a huge number of horses in this country are being kept in less than ideal conditions as far as their basic needs being met.

Literally could not agree with you more Miss_Millie. It most certainly is a welfare issue and something I feel very strongly about. It is not acceptable to keep a naturally social animal confined to a stable for most of the day for months at a time.

Horses are such trusting amenable animals. They can be conditioned to accept many different things without complaint, but that doesn't make it OK. I think people definitely confuse "acceptance" with "contentment" in many cases.

 

[humblepie]

Mine is out from around 7/7.30 to 4pm, bit earlier in when gets dark nights. If I ride then he goes out nearer 8.30 ish. We have our own individual fields or a shared two horse field and you pretty much manage your own field. Most are out similar times though a few do shorter for specific reasons. Previous yard I was on the land owner was so precious of the fields shouldn't really have had horses, the turn out got more and more restricted all the time. A yard I know offers all year turn out in its adverts but come the winter they have lots of days when they are not allowed to turn out. It is pretty poor that they advertise sometime very different to the reality.

 

[bouncing_ball]

Yep, his low lying fields are flat as pancakes and turn into quagmires in winter, but all the horses still do get turned out. They can’t live out full time over winter, but they do go out every day.

It was a few years ago, but i WA

I think that lack of turnout in the UK is the biggest horse welfare issue in this country. It is normalised that huge mammals are kept standing in small boxes, often for the majority of the day, especially during the winter. If a tiger was kept in a small room at a zoo, would that be deemed acceptable? I don't think so. Remember how we all felt during lockdown when we were only allowed to leave our houses for one hour a day? And even then, we weren't confined to one room.

Turnout isn't just about movement (which is obviously extremely important to both physical and emotional wellbeing) - it is enrichment - mutual grooming, rolling, foraging for plants, and a level of freedom and autonomy for the horse to choose what they would like to do. If a horse is stabled all day and their only exercise is when they are ridden, their life is micro-managed to the point that they have very little freedom of choice. That just doesn't seem fair to me.

I know that lots of people will say 'oh my horse loves to be stabled', but I have also observed that many people don't know how to recognise basic stress signals in horses. People think of the obvious behaviours like weaving and cribbing, but excessive blinking and a tight jaw on an otherwise stoic horse, is a horse which is deeply stressed. There is also an element of learned helplessness - the horse has accepted that there is nothing they can do to change the situation, and thus shuts down.

Now before people comment that I'm being unrealistic and idealistic...I get that most yards do not offer 24/7 turnout, or anything close to that. The horses that are lucky enough to have this freedom of movement are probably mostly kept on privately owned land. But I DO think that there is a big mental disconnect with many equestrians about what horse would prefer vs. what they think looks tidy, what is easy to manage and convenient etc.

It is a big topic, and I know that it isn't black and white. But I think that a huge number of horses in this country are being kept in less than ideal conditions as far as their basic needs being met.

I also think an awful lot of people like to see their horse tucked up for the night in winter, in cosy stable, warm and dry. It feels like taking good care of them. And would feel uncomfortable leaving their horses out in all weathers in winter. Whilst the human is in a warm, dry heated house at night. It is not logical but it is anthropomorphism at work, and liking to nurture I think.

And to be fair some horses don’t like being out at night in winter. Mine does though. When he was out overnight, he always had to be fetched from furthest corner of the field, no matter how wet, windy, cold it was. Whereas his field mates would wait at the gate, very keen to come in for breakfast. One stressed to come in several hours before he did.

 

[MagicMelon]

If the con's outweigh the pro's then why on earth stay? Id be looking for somewhere else personally. Im lucky, I keep my horses at home so mine live out 24/7 with their stable doors wide open so they can come and go as they want all year round whatever the weather. I couldnt imagine having to stable on demand of a YO but of course they have their reasons, but still for my horses welfare I would want guaranteed at least all day turnout every day.

 

[Gallop_Away]

It was a few years ago, but i WA


I also think an awful lot of people like to see their horse tucked up for the night in winter, in cosy stable, warm and dry. It feels like taking good care of them. And would feel uncomfortable leaving their horses out in all weathers in winter. Whilst the human is in a warm, dry heated house at night. It is not logical but it is anthropomorphism at work, and liking to nurture I think.

And to be fair some horses don’t like being out at night in winter. Mine does though. When he was out overnight, he always had to be fetched from furthest corner of the field, no matter how wet, windy, cold it was. Whereas his field mates would wait at the gate, very keen to come in for breakfast. One stressed to come in several hours before he did.

I'm one of those people. I love listening to the rain hitting my windows and winds howling, knowing my 3 are tucked up in their stables happily munching their hay and they seem to enjoy coming in at night during winter to. For me it's about balance and the best of both for my horses who have adequate daily turnout time in a mixed herd throughout the winter months, but still a warm dry stable to come in to at night.

It's currently chucking it down with rain here in Wales and I feel a lot better sat at my desk watching the rain hit my window, knowing my lot are in their stables, dry and warm and tucking into their nets.

Interestingly though, the next door neighbour to our livery yard also has horses. They have 2 large paddocks with stables built on a concrete hardstand next to the paddock nearest the house. They leave the stables bedded down and with hay and water inside, and doors and gates open so that theirs can move freely in and out as they please. Where were their horses this morning as I was driving out of the farm gates, rain battering my windscreen? Bums to the wind heads down grazing in the middle of the field furthest away from the stables, not a care in world.....

 

[Fieldlife]

I'm one of those people. I love listening to the rain hitting my windows and winds howling, knowing my 3 are tucked up in their stables happily munching their hay and they seem to enjoy coming in at night during winter to. For me it's about balance and the best of both for my horses who have adequate daily turnout time in a mixed herd throughout the winter months, but still a warm dry stable to come in to at night.

It's currently chucking it down with rain here in Wales and I feel a lot better sat at my desk watching the rain hit my window, knowing my lot are in their stables, dry and warm and tucking into their nets.

Interestingly though, the next door neighbour to our livery yard also has horses. They have 2 large paddocks with stables built on a concrete hardstand next to the paddock nearest the house. They leave the stables bedded down and with hay and water inside, and doors and gates open so that theirs can move freely in and out as they please. Where were their horses this morning as I was driving out of the farm gates, rain battering my windscreen? Bums to the wind heads down grazing in the middle of the field furthest away from the stables, not a care in world.....

Yes, I would struggle leaving my horse out over night in horrendous weather, if I thought he wanted to come in. One of his herd hates rain and stands in the shelter to avoid getting wet. My boy, and the other three dont care about the weather.

 

[SantaVera]

I think that lack of turnout in the UK is the biggest horse welfare issue in this country. It is normalised that huge mammals are kept standing in small boxes, often for the majority of the day, especially during the winter. If a tiger was kept in a small room at a zoo, would that be deemed acceptable? I don't think so. Remember how we all felt during lockdown when we were only allowed to leave our houses for one hour a day? And even then, we weren't confined to one room.

Turnout isn't just about movement (which is obviously extremely important to both physical and emotional wellbeing) - it is enrichment - mutual grooming, rolling, foraging for plants, and a level of freedom and autonomy for the horse to choose what they would like to do. If a horse is stabled all day and their only exercise is when they are ridden, their life is micro-managed to the point that they have very little freedom of choice. That just doesn't seem fair to me.

I know that lots of people will say 'oh my horse loves to be stabled', but I have also observed that many people don't know how to recognise basic stress signals in horses. People think of the obvious behaviours like weaving and cribbing, but excessive blinking and a tight jaw on an otherwise stoic horse, is a horse which is deeply stressed. There is also an element of learned helplessness - the horse has accepted that there is nothing they can do to change the situation, and thus shuts down.

Now before people comment that I'm being unrealistic and idealistic...I get that most yards do not offer 24/7 turnout, or anything close to that. The horses that are lucky enough to have this freedom of movement are probably mostly kept on privately owned land. But I DO think that there is a big mental disconnect with many equestrians about what horse would prefer vs. what they think looks tidy, what is easy to manage and convenient etc.

It is a big topic, and I know that it isn't black and white. But I think that a huge number of horses in this country are being kept in less than ideal conditions as far as their basic needs being met.

absolutely agree 100%. brilliant post.

 

[Birker2020]

Mines usually 8.30/9am till 4pm when i get him in.

A lot are coming in for half a day today due to the weather but when he's at the BB he won't have that luxury so its imperative he gets used it and sucks it up.

So he and his mate are out until 4pmwhen I shall get them in after work. He's a 50g rug so will be fine.

 

[ycbm]

ETA ycbm, I'm sorry to hear that you've forced off that wonder yard with such fabulous facilities on tap because of the restricted/lack of winter turnout ?.

Thanks TP, I was feeling quite sorry for myself, taking into account what I originally moved from. But it turns out there is more than one upside, because there's absolutely no doubt how much more freely he is moving now he's not working on waxed surfaces.

 

[ycbm]

If a tiger was kept in a small room at a zoo, would that be deemed acceptable? I don't think so. Remember how we all felt during lockdown when we were only allowed to leave our houses for one hour a day? And even then, we weren't confined to one room.

I am the first to point out that emotions are simply chemicals sloshing around the brain, and that there is no reason why all mammals can't feel them. But I don't find comparisons between a horse, whose main objectives in life are to find food/water and not be eaten, a flesh eating hunting apex predator and a mammal that reads books, does crosswords and produces art at all helpful in the discussion about stabling horses.

 

[TheMule]

We need to change our thinking and language around it

Count the number of hours stood in, not the number of hours out. 1/2 day of turnout realistically means 19- 20 hours stood in a small box.

Horses don’t need to be 'snug' or 'cosy'. They don’t like to be 'wrapped up' or 'tucked up'. They don’t appreciate a 'duvet day'. These are human terms, never going to be applicable to a herd animal designed to roam and graze all day and all night. No, I don’t think the alternative is standing in a small, bleak paddock with no grass and no shelter, but it needn’t be one or the other.

There are viable alternatives that involve putting in turnout pens, using areas of hard standing, putting in more draininage, using barn/ group housing systems, adding small pens to stables to give some element of choice for in/out. We cannot have row upon row of 12x12 stables that allow for zero interaction and expect our horses to be happy and healthy when shut in for 10+ hours