Wobblers Exeriences

[Dyllymoo]

As most of you know J has been diagnosed with stage 2 wobblers. He has neck arthritis which is pretty much given the "cause" of it (impingement of his spinal cord), its affecting both front and hind legs. He is only 6 and an Irish cob. He has been medically retired by the vet and I'm not quite able to PTS at the minute.

Just wondered what peoples experiences are of it, what symptoms did your horse display, did you retire or PTS, how quickly did they deteriorate if you retired and what management things did you do if you retired them?

Also does anyone know any of the neuro tests that I can do at home (not every day but when I'm unsure if he is declining etc.).

I'm not looking for "positive" outcomes really (i.e. the horse came right etc.) as I know this wont be the case for J unfortunately, just information and more of a fact finding mission really.

TIA

 

[milliepops]

I'll jump in although I think I've already shared quite a bit about my 2
I have 2 wobblers at the moment both grade 1 and both retired, one long term retired and one short term with a view to PTS if/when winter makes it too difficult to manage.

One is confirmed the result of injury and the other is expected to be the same though I didn't bother to x Ray etc, the decision was already made from the clinical signs which were conclusive.

the one given long term retirement requires absolutely no input from me to manage her condition, she has not shown any signs of deterioration other than muscle loss from not being in work. I don't think the wobblers has advanced at all in the nearly 2 years she's been retired. She gets hay, grass, her feet trimmed, vaccs, teeth, wormer and that's about it, lives out essentially 24/7 with others.
The other is a PTS candidate for me because he will require a lot more input to retire, I simply don't have a suitable set up for him.

If I was having to actively *manage* a wobbler I would PTS because for me that would show the disease was progressing too fast for comfort. I am very hands off with my retirees, they have to be able to live normal horse lives with good natural quality of life IMO.

re tests. this website describes the ones you can do as a lay person fairly well I think, and I know what is "normal" for mine so I can assess how they are doing.

https://www.equinewobblers.com/diagnostics/neurological_examination.html

you will need a helper for some of them (e.g. tail pull). and none are fully diagnostic, but they are useful for benchmarking.

 

[milliepops]

there are various videos. I've started this at the foot placement bit as that's useful to see an example

 

[Dyllymoo]

Thank you, I really do appreciate all of your help with this.

I am thinking that if it does become a long term thing he will need to live out with a herd of others as coming in isn't really going to be ideal (as much as he enjoys coming in to hay and dinner!).

The tests are great thank you, will see if I can do some this week and just make a note, maybe even video to make sure I can visually see them. I walked him around the yard this morning and he did seem a bit pottery but I'm unsure if that's getting used to his feet.

 

[doodle]

I’m not sure what grade Abbey was. Things progressed incredibly quickly for her. Started off with an odd hock swelling then both back legs swelling. This left her with the odd hind leg action. She was “sound” and would pick up hind legs and sort of snatch them up, move them forward, start to lower them then hesitate and then slammed foot down. She didn’t know when or where her foot was going to hit the ground. We tried a high level bute but this did nothing. She had always been a kind mare and would go into a stable if asked but preferred to live out. She decided she wanted to be in over night, I’m guessing she felt vulnerable in the field. Turn out one morning the odd gait had moved to front legs. I called vet back but by the time he got there the movement in front had reduced. However this was only 3 weeks after the first signs and she was pts the next day. He suggested taking her to vet school for all sorts of tests but we worried about the journey and they would not find anything fixable anyway. She was early 20’s and had been abandoned for 6 years prior to me getting her so it was time to let her go. It was hard as she looked great still. Tests didn’t happen so we didn’t find out exactly what the issue was but I am sure it was arthritis in the neck.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

My previous horse was diagnosed as a low grade as a 2yo, only sign was that he never was surefooted and a slight wobble to a tail pull. He was backed and ridden completely normally and it didn't affect him at all, but this was much lower grade than what you are dealing with. He was PTS at 7 due to severe navicular.

Sorry to hear that you're going through this OP.

 

[SEL]

We used to have one on our yard (his owner moved, he's still going). Stunning warmblood and you mainly spot his issue when he lies down and tries to get up again. Sometimes he gets stuck. For me personally that would be a line in the sand. Apart from the lying down issue he's absolutely fine out with his friend in retirement and blats around the field doing all sorts of acrobatics.

I think your plan of videoing is a good one so you can track progress.

I've seen much better results than I expected with my arthritic horse on pernamax equine if you feel like trying a supplement. Its green lipped mussel extract and my expectations were low - but the horse tells me otherwise!

 

[Dyllymoo]

Thanks everyone. Some great advice. I'm hoping to do the videos this weekend with my OH leading and me videoing. I walked him around the yard this morning and his footfalls didn't sound great and he almost seemed worse behind then I have noticed before. But we will see when I actually do the videos.

I keep reading threads on here and I'm just still so torn about what to do with him.

 

[Melody Grey]

No experience to add with the wobblers I’m afraid, but just wondered whether tracking the Anticipated degeneration in detail is a good idea? It requires a lot of emotional investment from you (as do all monitoring and rehab type situations) and for me I think it would seem fruitless knowing we’re not coming out the other side so to speak.
Please don’t take that the wrong way- I fully respect your wish to work through things in your own way and time just wondered whether calling it a day now and not having to watch the decline would be easier on you? Sometimes we must accept that which we cannot control. Sending hugs x

ETA: I guess I’m trying to say, it’s ok to put your needs first

 

[Dyllymoo]

No experience to add with the wobblers I’m afraid, but just wondered whether tracking the Anticipated degeneration in detail is a good idea? It requires a lot of emotional investment from you (as do all monitoring and rehab type situations) and for me I think it would seem fruitless knowing we’re not coming out the other side so to speak.
Please don’t take that the wrong way- I fully respect your wish to work through things in your own way and time just wondered whether calling it a day now and not having to watch the decline would be easier on you? Sometimes we must accept that which we cannot control. Sending hugs x

ETA: I guess I’m trying to say, it’s ok to put your needs first

Thank you. unfortunately I'm still wrestling with this decision (I have done a post recently and its not been an easy choice). At this moment in time I need to not make the decision. Whether that is right or wrong I am just wrestling with too many things to make it, which is why I want to track how he is now so that I know if he deteriorates. I don't want to leave it "too late" I guess, even though some could argue that I am leaving it too late by retiring and not PTS straight away.

 

[Melody Grey]

Thank you. unfortunately I'm still wrestling with this decision (I have done a post recently and its not been an easy choice). At this moment in time I need to not make the decision. Whether that is right or wrong I am just wrestling with too many things to make it, which is why I want to track how he is now so that I know if he deteriorates. I don't want to leave it "too late" I guess, even though some could argue that I am leaving it too late by retiring and not PTS straight away.

Totally understandable under the circumstances, I don’t envy you- it’s a really difficult situation. I know there have been a few uncertain rehab situations I’ve been involved in over the years where I was emotionally exhausted by the investment. I’d call time much sooner nowadays, particularly if it was only going one way.
There’s nothing wrong with taking time to arrive at the right decision for you but for me, it’d be putting off the inevitable I think. X

 

[Red-1]

Mine retired with it, had a length of retirement just doing gentle hacks after the vet put him on steroids, then he deteriorated so he was stumbling so he was proper retired.

If he was doing something repetitive such as lungeing, he looked wonderful. Proper sound. He kind of 'got' what his legs were doing. Changes of rein were tricky.

His unsurmountable difficulties were if he had to turn within his own space, such as in a stable, at the gate to open/ close it etc. I managed that for a while, but one windy day he couldn't walk a straight line. I began to fear he would fall on me or someone else. He was PTS.

 

[hollyandivy123]

Thank you. unfortunately I'm still wrestling with this decision (I have done a post recently and its not been an easy choice). At this moment in time I need to not make the decision. Whether that is right or wrong I am just wrestling with too many things to make it, which is why I want to track how he is now so that I know if he deteriorates. I don't want to leave it "too late" I guess, even though some could argue that I am leaving it too late by retiring and not PTS straight away.

determine what easy test show the wobblers in your cob, everyone will be different, then once a week ask some one to video whilst you carryout these tests, you can then refer back to the previous video for change and no use the human eye well it seems the same. obviously keep an eye day to day but only once a week with a reference video. this will also allow you to send to the vet if you think there is a change for him to look rather than come out. This way you have your reference and also an independent set of eyes who are not so much emotionally attached.

setting this up will allow you to emotionally reflect on what is best for him, without the pressure of does he seem different or not.

 

[Dyllymoo]

determine what easy test show the wobblers in your cob, everyone will be different, then once a week ask some one to video whilst you carryout these tests, you can then refer back to the previous video for change and no use the human eye well it seems the same. obviously keep an eye day to day but only once a week with a reference video. this will also allow you to send to the vet if you think there is a change for him to look rather than come out. This way you have your reference and also an independent set of eyes who are not so much emotionally attached.

setting this up will allow you to emotionally reflect on what is best for him, without the pressure of does he seem different or not.

Yep that's the plan

 

[AandK]

Not wobblers, but having been through similar with my late mare last year, it was only once she was gone that I realised how much strain the months leading up to her being PTS had affected me, I took a week off work once she had gone as I was a mess quite frankly. She was 29 (I got her aged 7) and had an arthritic knee, she went downhill over the course of the year and I was on high alert most of the spring/summer/autumn for signs of deterioration. It is so very hard knowing you have to make that decision, and hoping you make it at the right time too. She went on 5th November, I booked her in 24hr prior and I have to say, it was the worst 24hrs, god knows how people book it in for a weeks time... It was devastating to lose her, but the relief knowing she was no longer in pain and I no longer had to worry if I would find her down was gone.

I guess what I am trying to say is be kind to yourself as well as him.

 

[AandK]

Deleted, not sure what happened there!

 

[Nudibranch]

I had a suspected wobbler (from the age of 2) pts at 7 because of this and arthritis in the neck and hocks. I'll admit, the constant worrying about degeneration is wearing and my biggest fear was that he would have some horrible field accident and possibly lie for hours before anyone knew.
A farrier refused to trim him any longer when I mentioned his possible diagnosis.

 

[IrishMilo]

She went on 5th November, I booked her in 24hr prior and I have to say, it was the worst 24hrs, god knows how people book it in for a weeks time

I made the mistake of booking it a week in advance. It wasn't the lovely week of saying my goodbyes I thought it would be - it was a week filled with dread, worry I was doing the wrong thing, and having to look at him knowing what was coming. The build up is BY FAR harder than the aftermath (it was for me, anyway).

 

[ycbm]

I made the mistake of booking it a week in advance. It wasn't the lovely week of saying my goodbyes I thought it would be - it was a week filled with dread, worry I was doing the wrong thing, and having to look at him knowing what was coming. The build up is BY FAR harder than the aftermath (it was for me, anyway).

I can't do it, I book for as soon as they will come and spend the time in between pretending it's not happening.

 

[southerncomfort]

Not wobblers, but I had a mare diagnosed with a likely brain tumour. Her main symptom was seizures but she also had problems with balance and coordination. I would watch her trot across the field and she'd look fine for a few strides and then suddenly all 4 feet seemed to go in different directions.

I think, like you, my biggest concern was not knowing how quick the deterioration would be. Their just wasn't any way to tell sadly.

I was desperately worried - firstly that she would badly injure herself or that I'd find her down in the field unable to get up. Or secondly that I'd miss the point at which she started to suffer. And it was this that guided my decision.

My vet phoned with the bad news on the Friday and my lovely girl was PTS on the Monday

I really feel for you and understand your dilemma. Scared to do it to early, terrified you'll do it too late.

Sending you lots of support, because I think you need that more than opinions right now.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Unfortunately a sad update. I had a 2nd vet opinion on Monday which was very helpful for me to see what the vets had been seeing. After a discussion it was agreed that the kindest thing would be to pts.

Johnny went to sleep today after enjoying lots of treats and cuddles. I'm heartbroken but hopefully in time I will remember it was the right thing for him.

Didn't help with the yard "experts" and their helpful comments about how he "isn't that bad" and its "such a shame" to pts as he is only 6. Someone even commented 30 mins before the vet came and asked "what about being a companion"..... Jesus......

Anyway..... he is galloping around up there eating everything and anything

 

[SEL]

Unfortunately a sad update. I had a 2nd vet opinion on Monday which was very helpful for me to see what the vets had been seeing. After a discussion it was agreed that the kindest thing would be to pts.

Johnny went to sleep today after enjoying lots of treats and cuddles. I'm heartbroken but hopefully in time I will remember it was the right thing for him.

Didn't help with the yard "experts" and their helpful comments about how he "isn't that bad" and its "such a shame" to pts as he is only 6. Someone even commented 30 mins before the vet came and asked "what about being a companion"..... Jesus......

Anyway..... he is galloping around up there eating everything and anything

oh bless you - this has been a really hard few weeks and you must be feeling so sad right now. Ignore the yard 'experts' - he is at peace and that's all that matters. **hugs**

 

[Roxylola]

So sorry for your loss. You did the absolute best you could the whole time for him

 

[ycbm]

As on the other thread, but it bears repeating.

You have SO done the right thing today. I'm so sorry you had to do it, and I really hope you aren't feeling so bad in a few days time when it's sunk in.
.

 

[Kay Burton]

Unfortunately a sad update. I had a 2nd vet opinion on Monday which was very helpful for me to see what the vets had been seeing. After a discussion it was agreed that the kindest thing would be to pts.

Johnny went to sleep today after enjoying lots of treats and cuddles. I'm heartbroken but hopefully in time I will remember it was the right thing for him.

Didn't help with the yard "experts" and their helpful comments about how he "isn't that bad" and its "such a shame" to pts as he is only 6. Someone even commented 30 mins before the vet came and asked "what about being a companion"..... Jesus......

Anyway..... he is galloping around up there eating everything and anything

I am sorry for you. Losing a pet is very difficult. When my Scottish cat died, I walked depressed for months. She did not suffer before death, did not get sick. It was just that one fine winter evening a blood clot came off, she wheezed, fell and died within a minute. 4 years have passed since then, and the emptiness of the loss of this particular cat does not go away.

 

[Melody Grey]

A difficult decision, but the right one for all involved I feel. Take care of yourself OP and Thankyou for sharing your story with us, I’m sure your experiences will help others searching here in the future x

 

[Fools Motto]

Hi all, just bringing this thread back to life, as we have a newly confirmed wobbler. Won't go into too much detail as the horse isn't mine (but I do look after him). Vets have taken x-rays, which I have seen, and it's fascinating/educational/gut wrenching all at the same time.
Does anyone here have an x-ray of a wobbler? I'd like to see another so can compare.
Thank you in advance.

 

[Dyllymoo]

It might be better to do your own thread and get more traffic.

And stop me from re-reading the heartache from less than a year ago

 

[ycbm]

Removed after seeing post 28

 

[poiuytrewq]

So sorry also deleted