Wobbly Showjumpers

MrsMozart

MrsMozart

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Sat watching showjumping on telly, and it has struck me how many of the showjumpers (humans lol) have wobbly seats.

Bear in mind that I'm getting on a bit, so my heroes are from way back when and life was different, e.g. when I worked with horses we had to wear jods, long boots, blue v-neck jumpers, white shirts, ties, hacking jackets, hairnets, hats, and that was just to exercise the horses
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Sorry, I digress. The majority of the riders have about as secure a seat as I do on a bad day on Dizzy. One is used to seeing lower legs wobble, and of course their butts are never in the saddle in the canter, but whole legs are wobbling and wibbling about. I'm amazed no-one has wobbled right off. Compare them to the likes of William Whittaker and, well there is no comparison.

It could be that this is the new way of riding, in which case I might have to rethink my future
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Excuse my early morning ramblings. I'll go nd find a hot chocolate to keep me amused
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Very very good topic to have brought up! IMO I have always noticed this from the majority of top British showjumpers in the last 10 years or so. I do believe that this is why Britain have done so badly in SJ compared to other countries when they compete at International/Olympic level- these riders just dont have the security in their seat nor do they seem to have finesse or balance?

Having said that , the likes of william Whitaker and anyone else who rides like that do have a bright future in competing competitvely against the rest of the world!

But I am not a showjumper , do not really watch it much so I am not really qualified to comment!
 
now, i thought this was going to be about wobbly horses veering left and right in the air, and very rarely going straight through the middle of combinations! eventers are drilled to keep straight, but i guess for sjers as long as they leave the poles up, they put up with it?!
i'll have to have a look at the wobbly riders... i know we get some rubbish riding at the lower levels of eventing but by the time they get to the big stuff they're usually very sorted!
 
O_B - I was thinking that when some of them were going over the jumps! Okay, so on the whole they get over, but the balance that the poor horses had to sort out; they surely would do better if the rider was secure and 'with' the horse rather than all over the place?

K - this was fairly high level stuff (televised and the jumps looked pretty decent to me(!)), but there were poles down left, right and centre. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I think that if you're going to do something you should do it properly - get the basics right and the rest will follow. I'm sure not so many poles would have rolled or time lost had the riders actually been more together and connected to their horses.

Again, my ramblings, despite three cups of tea! I blame the head issue
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Intresting topic Mrs M, was watching HOYS last night, and noticed quite a few wobbly riders and a few hair raising approaches to some very large combinations, one horse in particular was well within its rigts to say no, but did jump, but had the fence down.

Have always admired William Whittaker, and Ben Mayher seems to have a very stable lower leg, will be watching more carefully tonight!

Again off the subject a little I have fallen for Skellys new grey BIG time!
 
I think the standard of the top level event riders these days is a million times better than, say, 20 years ago. Most of the showjumpers have always appeared quite untidy and more about confidence, money and great horses than skill. The long-standing obvious main exception being John Whittaker
 
Very interesting topic!

I don't know about UK SJ'ers as I only ever really watch the Whitakers et al on YouTube, but I went to a SJ comp here a few months ago and in the final of a 1.25-1.35m class there was a boy riding a horse that obviously new its job, but the guy was all over the place, the audience gasped at every fence because it was hard to believe that they were going to land in the same place. I was surprised a) that he had made it to the final round, and B) he was allowed to compete!
Some of the 'old school' - ie riders over 45 - who compete at the top here ride well (solid leg etc) but like the boy I mentioned there are alot of dodgey all over the place people riders.

Here's my philosophy as to why...=)
My mum who has ridden for eons and quite well (I may be biased) has recently been for a few jumping lessons mainly to expose the horse to new fences (unfortunatly you can not just rent an arena/facilities here you have to have a qulified instructor present). The instructor has started to try and 'correct' her position, this involves sitting right forward almost on the pommel of the saddle, with very loose thigh and knee and gripping only with her calf. In this position she feels (and having tried it I agree) you have no 'power' in the leg to drive the horse forward if he starts to back off coming into the fence or is just being plain lazy also it makes your position very insecure. While the grip with calf does kind of help with lower leg stability but the rest of it goes to pot, especially over large oxers.

Having talked to a few people all 'SJ' instructors (the XC lot seem more rational) teach people to jump like that here, which partially explains why riders seem to go out the front/side door so easily if the horse stops/shies and why the same few 'old fashined' riders stay at the top and no one seems to challenge them, it not from a lack of horse power, its an inability to really ride the horses they have.

Well thats my 2 cents worth....
 
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now, i thought this was going to be about wobbly horses veering left and right in the air, and very rarely going straight through the middle of combinations! eventers are drilled to keep straight, but i guess for sjers as long as they leave the poles up, they put up with it?!
i'll have to have a look at the wobbly riders... i know we get some rubbish riding at the lower levels of eventing but by the time they get to the big stuff they're usually very sorted!

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That seems like a pretty big generalisation. After all, many top event horses might be dead straight through combinations, and the riders might appear far more stylish and yet a great number struggle to leave the poles up round courses that are far more straightforward than the kind you get in SJ at the top level. Some of the riders might appear far less stylish, but generally speaking, you don't jump clear round a 1.60m track by a total fluke.

Of course there are plenty of SJers that aren't brilliant, but it seems a bit rich to me to hold up eventing as an arena of brilliance when I think there is just as much dodgy riding in both sports.
 
I don't understand what is being meant by wobbly positions. Fluid? Well yes, you have to be, and light with it. I personally do not think that the Whitakers, Ben, Geoff, Tim or Peter have *wobbly* positions and they have been the stalwarts of British SJing for a number of years, it is lack of horse power that has made it hard for us to win medals, and bad luck, in spades!

IMO TOO much is said about perfect positions, perfect positions are not always effective!
 
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I don't understand what is being meant by wobbly positions. Fluid? Well yes, you have to be, and light with it. I personally do not think that the Whitakers, Ben, Geoff, Tim or Peter have *wobbly* positions and they have been the stalwarts of British SJing for a number of years, it is lack of horse power that has made it hard for us to win medals, and bad luck, in spades!

IMO TOO much is said about perfect positions, perfect positions are not always effective!

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I couldn't agree more!
 
I agree- in particular, having always had the importance of a stable lower leg drilled into me by my instructor(who is admittedly an 'eventy' instructor!) I am always suprised to see the showjumpers at international level with their lower leg swinging right back up the horse's side when in midair- although i must say i have the utmost respect for them being able to land like that and continue on without falling off!! (only yesterday I nearly got launched off the TB when attempting a fairly sizeable for me, PN-size oxer- he jumped it like it was 1.60m and it felt like i was never going to return to earth!!- hm maybe i'm not destined to showjump)
I do think that there is obviously a HUGE amount of talent, expertise and skill involved, as in any equestrian sport- after all, they wouldn't be professionals if they weren't good- and as said above, maybe perfect position isn't everything?
 
I've always thought Geoff Billington looks so unbalanced when he rides, but I guess as long as he gets results then it doesn't matter.

Have to say that IMO Rodrigo Pessoa and Marcus Eihning have the position and balance I want!
 
I think that unless anybody jumps at 1.60m, then they arnt in a position to comment....

You dont get a horse to that level unless your pretty damn good, wobbly seat or not!
 
IMO there are such a difference between the eventers and showjumpers position. Cross Crountry riding is by definition about being positive yet staying defensive and safe if a horse should trip or leave a leg etc at any moment. With showjumping the lower leg does seem to act with a lot more 'swing' (for want of a better a phrase!!)...I don't preclaim to know why the difference is but seeing as it is the case with 90%+ of all professional showjumpers they can't all be wobbly and inneffective!
 
i think us 'eventing' people do seem to notice the show jumpers moving around more but that is because 99% of top eventers have a very stable and static position.

i'm think part of it is obviously down to the huge fences they have to jump so you are going to need to be a bit more flexible and move more in the saddle to keep in balance.

having said that, there are very few sjer's i like to watch- Ben Maher, Daniel Neilson, William Whitaker, etc.
i like these sjer's as they appear so quite and neat in the saddle and that is the kind of style i would like to emulate
 
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That seems like a pretty big generalisation. After all, many top event horses might be dead straight through combinations, and the riders might appear far more stylish and yet a great number struggle to leave the poles up round courses that are far more straightforward than the kind you get in SJ at the top level. Some of the riders might appear far less stylish, but generally speaking, you don't jump clear round a 1.60m track by a total fluke.

Of course there are plenty of SJers that aren't brilliant, but it seems a bit rich to me to hold up eventing as an arena of brilliance when I think there is just as much dodgy riding in both sports.

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i wasn't holding up eventers as brilliant, just saying that usually their horses are drilled to stay straight.
there's a huge difference between a 1.35 event track and a top sjing track, obviously.
 
I think that pretty much no one on this thread is in any position to comment on how these horses are ridden- wobbly? Well, those horses aren't exactly riding school dobbins, and yet THEY manage to stay on when their horse spooks/ bucks/ stops suddenly...

I think that, sure, they don't look beuatiful- but I reckon when you get to the point that you can't see over the ence you're jumping, there's a certain technique that works for you and your horse, and you and your trainer can work on it... Ellie used to take courses at 100mph, taking orners like a motorbike, with miniml interference- did it look pretty? No. Did it work? Yes, because until A got on she han't got round a course of SJs in 2 years...
 
The old "you can't do, it so you can't comment" argument is a load of bull. That's like saying my mum, who's been watching football for nearly 50 years but never played in her life, can't comment on a player's skill.

We all have eyes, brains and some degree of equestrian experience, so shall say what we like.
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Anyone see the pic of Michael Whitaker jumping 7ft bareback in the back of last weeks H&H? Think your position would have to be pretty stable to manage something like that LOL.
 
Of course you can comment, but it doesnt mean you know Jack sh1t about it....

Unless of course your riding at that standard.

'A degree of equestrian experience'

Or how about 'a little bit of knowledge is dangerous'
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Well, see what happens when one starts a thread and goes out and leaves it alone
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I don't jump those size jumps, though when I was younger I used to jump some biggies (usually unofficially
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), but that doesn't mean I can't comment now
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. I didn't say it was easy or otherwise, I said that their seats are wobbly and they are, simples. Does not affect the fact that on the whole they get over the jumps, but in a lot of cases it's not pretty (for want of a better word).

I would love to be able to ride like WW, but the chances of that are negligable
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; I do however hope that I am able to ride with a secure seat and be in balance with my horse
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Disclaimer: on the grounds that, whilst I usually manage to stay on my spinning DW, four weeks ago I came out the side door because my seat and balance were not secure, I can blame everything on the brain injury
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I have to say - watching Ben Maher ride is a real pleasure as he's such a stylish rider. Some of the others might look a bit untidy but boy, are they effective in persuading half a tonne of horse to jump a fence. You get no points for style SJing ...
 
[wanders in ...] just want to say, I have a large number of photos in my possession (due to a family connection) of GB team SJers in the 50s and 60s, when the style was to get off the horse's back as much as possible, resulting in the rider actually losing contact with the saddle in mid-air and the lower leg being right up and back on the horse's sides.

These people were at the top of their game, riding all sorts of horses (including one which looked more like a carthorse than a sjer
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), and the only kit they had on the horses were simple snaffle bridles, plain nosebands, and incredibly uncomfortable looking saddles
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It makes my eyes water to look at the pics, but the horses all seemed very happy, and the results spoke for themselves (I'm assuming they perfected some way of landing softly back in the saddle after taking flight
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Of course you can comment, but it doesnt mean you know Jack sh1t about it....

Unless of course your riding at that standard.

'A degree of equestrian experience'

Or how about 'a little bit of knowledge is dangerous'
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forum life would be a bit boring if we only commented on things we had first hand experience of though. Giving advice obviously it is more helpful, but in threads like this not that important IMO.
 
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Were you on the GB team in the 50s? Maybe I have a picture of you in my collection!
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Ow, don't hit me
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Consider yourself whumpped, but then again, I'm sure you're older than me so....
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Be gentle. I might have to cry on you. Have you found my man yet?
 
Wrong! You are older than me
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No I haven't seen your man yet, but your windows are now in place (they magically fitted themselves overnight, weren't there on Thursday, all in on Friday
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) - shall I leave a post-it on one of them?
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