Nasicus
Well-Known Member
It can be both, it's certainly awful reading though I agree.
Woman killed and man injured in Rotherham dog attack
- Thread starter skinnydipper
- Start date
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
Oh right okay, I was aware that they are bred to be lock-jaw'ed and not let go but I thought perhaps there's also something about the shape of it that I hadn't read
I don't think their jaws physically lock, it's just in their DNA not to let go, once these types start, they won't just won't stop. Did you see the thread with the video of the Pit attacking a carriage horse in a US park?
AShetlandBitMeOnce
Well-Known Member
It's just a turn of phrase rather than a reference to a biological feature - perhaps not a good one though as it does give the wrong impression of what I meant!
I did see that, it was still going for the horse despite having injuries that required PTS after the fact, it's crazy.
AShetlandBitMeOnce
Well-Known Member
Don't worry everyone, it had nothing to do with it's genetics, breeding or training.. the dog was simply hot.
Make sure you keep an eye out for your dogs at home in that case, this weather is rather warm..
Make sure you keep an eye out for your dogs at home in that case, this weather is rather warm..
paddy555
Well-Known Member
this is very sad.
SilverLinings
Well-Known Member
It is infuriating that so many grown adults these days seem incapable of taking responsibility for their actions. If heat made dogs go mad and kill humans then I'm pretty sure that for a start they wouldn't be kept as pets in hot countries, and all those packs of street dogs in places like South America would be responsible for a huge human death toll.
Dogs don't tend to spontaneously go from lovely, calm pet to killer with no warning. If the dog was previously exhibiting behavioural/socialisation problems then it was the owner(s) responsibility to train it, seek help, or have it destroyed if the problems appeared to be unfixable. If the dog was distressed by the hot weather then the owner(s) should have been acting to cool it down and ensure it was comfortable (washing it off, giving extra water, using fans etc).
'Accidents' like this aren't usually some weird act of fate that had nothing to do with the owner(s); if you own a dog then you are responsible for ensuring that it is properly trained and socialised to the degree that it is safe with other humans and animals (or kept on a lead and/or muzzled in public if it's a breed like a greyhound that's likely to chase small furries). If you encounter problems or difficulties in doing this then it is your responsibility to seek help ASAP from a professional. If the dog is uncontrollably dangerous then unfortunately you have a responsibility to have it PTS before it seriously hurts a human or other animal.
I wish the press wouldn't go along with claims like this as it is hardly helping other less-than-effective owners realise the seriousness of their responsibilities as a dog owner.
Arghhhh, humans (well, some of them at least)
Arzada
Well-Known Member
Absolutely no words. Desperately sorry for her children
TGM
Well-Known Member
The garden gate had a sign saying "Beware of the dogs - they bite, you have been warned" ...
Soap On A Rope
Well-Known Member
This is my savage American Bulldog! Pure bred American Bulldogs are the most gentle dogs ....the problems start when idiots cross breed them with mastiffs and the like , then call them American Bullies XL .....
Annette4
Well-Known Member
Our American Bulldog x was the sweetest girl and we worked very hard on her socialisation and training. She had a brain tumour and was let go at 2yo but a big softy. I really don't like these XL bullies anyway but I will remain a staunch deed not breed believer. They are the current fad like GSDs, doberman, staffys etc have been.
Dexter
Well-Known Member
Did you read the breeds on the link? I dont think anyone can dispute the fact there were far, far more bull breeds than anything else
Keith_Beef
Novice equestrian, accomplished equichetrian
Yes, but I've seen plenty of these signs outside houses where there is no dog, just to discourage people from coming into the garden and knocking on the door.
And other people no doubt put out these signs in the hope that if ever their dog bites a postal worker or delivery person then it will absolve the owners of any liability.
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
I suspect that may have a lot to do with the fact that these breeds attract people who want a dog as a status symbol and quite likely encourage bad behaviour.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
I don't agree with this I'm afraid. This might be the case in some of the dog attacks but they do not all follow this route.Dogs don't tend to spontaneously go from lovely, calm pet to killer with no warning. If the dog was previously exhibiting behavioural/socialisation problems then it was the owner(s) responsibility to train it, seek help, or have it destroyed if the problems appeared to be unfixable.
When I was about 12 Mum took me to her friends during the six week summer holiday - she went for a coffee and afternoon chat. The lady had a swimming pool in her back garden and I played with her son who was a couple of years older than me, we were splashing around in the pool and playing with their pet rescue dog that they'd had for many years.
A few days later Mum rang up the friend to say thank you for the lovely day we'd had and the lady told Mum that the day after our visit Peppy I think it was called had gone for her son and bitten him on the cheek and they'd had her destroyed. Apparently it was a totally unprovoked attack and the dog had just flown for her son without any provocation. There was no identifiable trigger stimulus/stimuli that the family could find.
I'd had a lucky escape. It wasn't a particuarly warm day either, I suppose it would have been low to mid 70's in those days in the Summer. The dog had never shown any inclination for harming anyone in the family and it was a deeply upsetting time for them all, not least for the son.
tristar
Well-Known Member
i never go near a dog without thinking , has teeth could bite
i treat all dogs even my own jack russell dog with the greatest respect, i am slightly nervous of dogs, so i think carefully before challenging dogs, or how to approach what i do with them
i have had a rottie, who was soft as shxt, terriers are often snappy for no reason, possibly because they are so small if you approach them without caution and thought
but the very large breeds are vulnerable because when it goes wrong for them it can be big time
i treat all dogs even my own jack russell dog with the greatest respect, i am slightly nervous of dogs, so i think carefully before challenging dogs, or how to approach what i do with them
i have had a rottie, who was soft as shxt, terriers are often snappy for no reason, possibly because they are so small if you approach them without caution and thought
but the very large breeds are vulnerable because when it goes wrong for them it can be big time
SaddlePsych'D
Well-Known Member
Just because they didn't find it/couldn't see it doesn't mean there wasn't one - so often there are videos going round on SM of dogs and children where the dog looks absolutely fed up and giving subtle signals to say so, but people just dont see it and refuse to hear it. Heat doesn't help as places extra stress on animals (and us!) so, in addition to other triggers, may have been the thing that pushes them over the top but not the sole thing in an otherwise well trained/adjusted/socialised dog to cause them to bite/maim/kill.
I really struggle with the 'don't breed discriminate' thing. Why not? Those stats are shocking in terms of the clear pattern of breeds/types involved in deaths. Discriminating roughly around breed is really appropriate for increasing chances of finding a good pet/companion/worker that fits well with lifestyles/activity levels/experience, increases chances of a dog living with it's needs met and minimising the chances of the said dog mauling someone to death in their own home! That said, I disagree with extending legislation banning by breed alone because it probably wouldn't be effective and there would just be a different breed popping up in it's place. Also that there are many dogs doing perfectly well of these larger and bull type breeds. The existing DDA legislation needs to be strengthened and actually enforced, across all breeds. Also much more public engagement/awareness about what the law around dogs actually is.
Also not sure that it's all about the status symbol owners. Definitely some like that round here (including one who had a go at me for swerving his bully something because it 'wasn't fair on the dog' and the one with the shepherd x pit that's legally supposed to be muzzled out in public but isn't) but also worrying are those who are convinced their dog can never do wrong/is victim of the media 'exaggerating'/loves the kids (alongside videos to the contrary)/is an innocent rescue/their 'baby'.
I just feel so frightened and angry every time yet another story like this comes out.
Annette4
Well-Known Member
That was my point....historically its been other breeds because of the people who wanted them.....not because of the breed itself.
AmyMay
Situation normal
I absolutely agree.
And after all we see it here regularly on all sorts of breeds. Especially anything that’s a ‘poo’
Dexter
Well-Known Member
Apart from bull breeds there is no clear pattern, so its more likely that actually, it is the breed that is the issue, I have no doubt there is a huge element of bad owners heavily contributing, but thats much harder to legislate. There are thousands of dog breeds that have never fatally injured a human, and a handful that have, and one particular type that does it regularly. Its a no brainer to ban those breeds.
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
It’s all very well calling for a breed to be banned but pit bulls were banned under DDA of 1991 . That was over 30 years ago so in theory there shouldn’t have been any pit bulls in the Uk for the last say 15 years , that worked didn’t it !
stangs
Well-Known Member
Ah but we also haven’t had any Tosas here for the last decade… just as we had none before that… so clearly the DDA works
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
So ban bull breeds, all of them? EBTs, boxers, Bostons, Frenchies?
GSD Woman
Well-Known Member
Living where I do and having done my job for so long I'm guessing I probably have seen more pit bull types than most other people here.
It seems that like most breeds they're either super sweet angel babies or total psychopath killers, no in between. I've been bitten by Labradors, little land shark types and 1 pit bull. I've had other dogs that have gone for me but good team handling stopped any damage to humans and animals.
Unfortunately, it seems we remember the horrid ones. Honestly, unless I know the dog I don't trust my own breed. There are too many poorly bred and trained ones.
It seems that like most breeds they're either super sweet angel babies or total psychopath killers, no in between. I've been bitten by Labradors, little land shark types and 1 pit bull. I've had other dogs that have gone for me but good team handling stopped any damage to humans and animals.
Unfortunately, it seems we remember the horrid ones. Honestly, unless I know the dog I don't trust my own breed. There are too many poorly bred and trained ones.
Landcruiser
Well-Known Member
I just googled XL bully and there are, amazingly, loads of XL bully pups for sale in the UK on gumtree from £500. I have no words.
GSD Woman
Well-Known Member
Since American Bullies are mostly pit bull genetically can the DDA ban them?
stangs
Well-Known Member
The DDA deems a dog a pit bull mostly based off their measurements, so technically some bullies could be subject to the act, but the majority not, I suspect.
I don't think banning the breed as a whole would help much either. All you'd get is a trend in people buying a different potentially dangerous breed, e.g., Cane Corsos are on the rise, and I've seen Mastiff x Staffies too for the pit bull look too. We'll never be able to ban every problematic breed.
misst
Well-Known Member
As a JRT owner for many many years and a terrier fan I was taken aback at first at the babies on that list attacked by small terriers - BUT - I was always someone who felt JRT types were not good around babies. My own were supervised constantly and watched for any signs of alertness or interest when my granddaughter was born. Those newborn noises and quick sharp movements definitely interested them. Both of mine are also quite "jealous" in a gentle way of human attention directed away from them to other small animals, they will push their way forward if they can. I cannot imagine leaving a baby for a moment with either of my lovely dogs, or allowing the dogs to be next to the baby. Granddaughter is 5 now and the dogs are amazing with her, very tolerant and Moti adores her - looking for her when she is missing and "checking" on her from time to time but I still don't leave them unsupervised with her.
Aperchristmas
Well-Known Member
I have met so many lovely mastiff-type as well as guardian dogs but would never have one myself because with that kind of dog if it goes wrong, it goes really really wrong.
Obviously dogs should be trained well but having had an anxious dog before, I can see a) how difficult it can be to help the dog manage its anxiety and b) the potential consequences if they turned more fear aggressive and were a hell of a lot bigger.
Obviously dogs should be trained well but having had an anxious dog before, I can see a) how difficult it can be to help the dog manage its anxiety and b) the potential consequences if they turned more fear aggressive and were a hell of a lot bigger.
Nasicus
Well-Known Member
That's the thing, isn't it? Any dog can bite, any dog can attack. But when it comes down to it, you'd rather be savaged by a 2kg Chihuahua than a 60kg Mastiff. One would require stitches, the other a bodybag.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
.