Woman killed, seven dogs seized

stangs said:
To be honest, I don't understand why the dogs must be kept in a kennel rather than getting sent home under the condition that they must be leashed and muzzled when in public. If there were any concerns, presumably they could do a behavioural assessment to check that they're fit to return home.
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If my dog were involved I would be pushing for that tbh. No matter how long it takes for test results to come back the forensic scientists must surely have all the info they need by now and if they haven't the dogs could be taken to them for further samples to be taken.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
If my dog were involved I would be pushing for that tbh. No matter how long it takes for test results to come back the forensic scientists must surely have all the info they need by now and if they haven't the dogs could be taken to them for further samples to be taken.
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If your dog was involved you would have no choice in the matter.
 
bonny said:
If your dog was involved you would have no choice in the matter.
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Obviously but as none of the dogs was a banned breed, I would be pushing for my dog's return. I am not sure what the legal basis for the police holding them is and would certainly have taken legal advice to find out. But then, my dogs wouldn't have been walking in such an irresponsible situation.
 
Just musing here. Although obviously a terrible tragedy for the poor lady who was killed and anyone who was unfortunate enough to witness it, has anyone an opinion on the state of mind and wellbeing of all those dogs that are now being held in kennels?

I am just wondering if my dogs were taken out by a dog walker with another group of dogs (this would never be allowed to happen but you know what I mean), and this horrific incident unfolded with my two dogs mixed up in the whole thing, regardless if they fled in sheer terror or joined in. Probably terrified and bewildered by the whole thing, to then be rounded up and taken off to an unknown kennel facility by unknown people and kept there for week upon week, perhaps many months, what would that do to their mental state and general wellbeing?

Would the owners ever get back the same dog they said goodbye to that morning - would they be faced with a long and difficult road rehabbing their pets, would the damage be irreparable regardless if forensics find they did nothing more than run off in fear. I feel sorry for the owners and the poor dogs concerned. Does anyone know if owners are allowed to visit their pets while the rules of justice grind slowly to some sort of conclusion.?
 
Tbh the more I hear about this the sadder it is. What a terrible way to have died and potentially as Sandstone1 surmised it could have been that the dogs thought they were fighting each other and/ or trying to get out of the tangle of leads. A very different thing to a calculated attack from a dog but I imagine that sadly they wont be able to tell the difference and consequently any dogs that bit her might well be destroyed.

I can't imagine what the owners are going through either. I would be distraught if it was my dog that was involved.
 
I'm not a dog person, but I know 2 daschunds. One is absolutely gorgeous, barky but from excitement. First time I met him he got hold of a piece of cling film. It was just me and him in the room, he let me grab him and prise open his mouth and take it away from him without even a growl.

The other? I got run at and snapped at for the mere crime of standing up on the opposite side of the room it was at. Generally snappy and not pleasent. Sometimes seems fine but I don't dare test the water. Despite its size, it scares me. The thought of it round a child....

I don't think they can just rule them out because of their size - surely depending on where they bit, if they did bite, could still cause damage, e.g a major artery? I'm reading the article and so many comments are saying it can't be the daschunds, but in the carnage, surely you can't be 100% sure

They haven't named 2 of the breeds have they? There's the collie, cockapoo, Leonberger and the daschunds, what are the other 2?
 
I agree, none of the dogs can be ruled out just on size.

I'm afraid that I would not be happy about letting the owners get their dogs back until the full facts are ascertained as best they can be. We all know owners who are in denial about their dog's true nature. It's very tough on the dogs, but it was the owners who let this woman take them out as she did.
 
Tiddlypom said:
It's very tough on the dogs, but it was the owners who let this woman take them out as she did.
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In general I agree, but how can an owner even know for sure how many dogs their walker is taking off for a jaunt with their own pets? Even with as much due diligence as one would hope owners used in choosing their dog walker, once they are out at work the walker can pretty much do what they choose and pick up any number of dogs en route to the chosen walk.

I think perhaps some sort of legislation that is pretty tight and encompassing a lot of known issues with so many random dog walkers is long overdue.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
Just musing here. Although obviously a terrible tragedy for the poor lady who was killed and anyone who was unfortunate enough to witness it, has anyone an opinion on the state of mind and wellbeing of all those dogs that are now being held in kennels?

I am just wondering if my dogs were taken out by a dog walker with another group of dogs (this would never be allowed to happen but you know what I mean), and this horrific incident unfolded with my two dogs mixed up in the whole thing, regardless if they fled in sheer terror or joined in. Probably terrified and bewildered by the whole thing, to then be rounded up and taken off to an unknown kennel facility by unknown people and kept there for week upon week, perhaps many months, what would that do to their mental state and general wellbeing?

Would the owners ever get back the same dog they said goodbye to that morning - would they be faced with a long and difficult road rehabbing their pets, would the damage be irreparable regardless if forensics find they did nothing more than run off in fear. I feel sorry for the owners and the poor dogs concerned. Does anyone know if owners are allowed to visit their pets while the rules of justice grind slowly to some sort of conclusion.?
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I imported a dog from Australia many years ago and she had a plane flight in cargo (I assume terrifying) and 6 months in kennels. She was fine, my mum picked her up for me as I was delayed over there and she was the same quirky , rather neurotic dog she had been before.
 
Clodagh said:
I imported a dog from Australia many years ago and she had a plane flight in cargo (I assume terrifying) and 6 months in kennels. She was fine, my mum picked her up for me as I was delayed over there and she was the same quirky , rather neurotic dog she had been before.
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That reminds me my SIL brought her two retriever's home from Canada with her and they seemed non the worse for their flight and 6 months in quarantine. But then they didn't have this hugely traumatic event right at day one of being snatched out of their owner's lives did they? I know I should be wary of tending to anthropomorphise what happened to the dogs but it must surely have had some very unwelcome impact on them. Hopefully you are right though and long term they will be grand, but I do wonder if that is wishful thinking.
 
Tiddlypom said:
I agree, none of the dogs can be ruled out just on size.

I'm afraid that I would not be happy about letting the owners get their dogs back until the full facts are ascertained as best they can be. We all know owners who are in denial about their dog's true nature. It's very tough on the dogs, but it was the owners who let this woman take them out as she did.
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I don't see we can ever know the full facts unless there was a witness who saw it all and preferably videoed it.

I would guess that you could take any 8 random dogs, put them in that situation and, if something sparked it off, anything could happen. I think there are many people who would not be able to gauge their dog's reaction in that particular circumstance.
If I was an owner who hired a professional dog walker then I think it would be reasonable to assume they had a knowledge of walking dogs and taking care of them. It would be reasonable to assume the walker was suitably knowledgeable to be able to deal with difficult situations. I think there is a limit as to what the owners could have done. There is no way they could be sure the walker would stick to 3 or 4 or whatever they were told.

It is very very sad but I feel that a lot of the blame must surely lie with the walker. Why anyone would take out a Leo with 7 other dogs is beyond me. Surely with that size dog it should either be alone or a max of 2. How on earth could you keep it's (or any other dog's ) attention with 8.

I feel it is very sad that 8 dogs who were most likely family pets and probably when alone may have done no more than pull on their leads and bark are now in this awful situation because of human failure. (whichever human caused it)

Whilst I would never let my dog be walked by anyone else if I was in this position I would have had my lawyer working on this from the very start. I' afraid I don't trust the police at all, about anything.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
That reminds me my SIL brought her two retriever's home from Canada with her and they seemed non the worse for their flight and 6 months in quarantine. But then they didn't have this hugely traumatic event right at day one of being snatched out of their owner's lives did they? I know I should be wary of tending to anthropomorphise what happened to the dogs but it must surely have had some very unwelcome impact on them. Hopefully you are right though and long term they will be grand, but I do wonder if that is wishful thinking.
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I think there is a huge difference between a sensible owner in a settled situation organising for a dog to travel and being there in the new country, even if it does have to spend time in quarantine, then the dog resumes it's consistent life with the same owner and the dog who is plucked from the street, gets used to life in kennels and the caregivers there, is transported for several hours, to a different set of kennels with different caregivers, then finds itself in a house with yet another caregiver who doesn't even speak the same language to the dog as the first people it met. Yes with luck, all the people involved have kindly intentions but the poor dog has been removed from everything that it knows, over and over again.
That doesn't compare with someone bringing their pet with them when they emigrate.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I think there is a huge difference between a sensible owner in a settled situation organising for a dog to travel and being there in the new country, even if it does have to spend time in quarantine, then the dog resumes it's consistent life with the same owner and the dog who is plucked from the street, gets used to life in kennels and the caregivers there, is transported for several hours, to a different set of kennels with different caregivers, then finds itself in a house with yet another caregiver who doesn't even speak the same language to the dog as the first people it met. Yes with luck, all the people involved have kindly intentions but the poor dog has been removed from everything that it knows, over and over again.

That doesn't compare with someone bringing their pet with them when they emigrate.
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SUBJECT BREACH
 
paddy555 said:
Whilst I would never let my dog be walked by anyone else if I was in this position I would have had my lawyer working on this from the very start. I' afraid I don't trust the police at all, about anything.
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Indeed! As far as the law is concerned the dogs are the property of their owners. The owners have been deemed to have committed no crime, so what is the reason that they are being deprived of their property?
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Indeed! As far as the law is concerned the dogs are the property of their owners. The owners have been deemed to have committed no crime, so what is the reason that they are being deprived of their property?
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Erm, because between them these dogs have killed a woman?
 
millikins said:
I think frightened dogs bite limbs, hands etc, even angry dogs I've only known bite extremities. For the poor woman to be killed by bites to the throat indicates to me that the dog really meant it.
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I guess that she fell over fairly early on, I doubt that any of the dogs jumped up to bite her neck. The reason most bites are to the extremities is that that is where the dog can reach.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I guess that she fell over fairly early on, I doubt that any of the dogs jumped up to bite her neck. The reason most bites are to the extremities is that that is where the dog can reach.
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This, and if she was making any noise on the ground, that's the part of the body it will emanate from. Also not protected or covered by clothing.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Yes, I was thinking that myself! We are on the wrong thread, I think, Clodagh and Mrs J
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Am I??? My post you quoted was written regarding how these dogs involved in the ladies death might be impacted by being whisked away to kennels. I assumed Clodagh,s experience of a dog being not being traumatized by traveling by air and then quarantined was also relating to this point. Nothing to do with the Sophie thread?

Or have I got muddled? ? Probably!??
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
Am I??? My post you quoted was written regarding how these dogs involved in the ladies death might be impacted by being whisked away to kennels. I assumed Clodagh,s experience of a dog being not being traumatized by traveling by air and then quarantined was also relating to this point. Nothing to do with the Sophie thread?

Or have I got muddled? ? Probably!??
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No, I don't think it is you, or Clodagh actually!
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
Just musing here. Although obviously a terrible tragedy for the poor lady who was killed and anyone who was unfortunate enough to witness it, has anyone an opinion on the state of mind and wellbeing of all those dogs that are now being held in kennels?
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Every dog is different, some dogs may not cope as well as others.

Narcissistic attention seeker alert. One of the dogs I adopted was suffering from kennel stress when I adopted her. None of the others did, including one who had been in rescue kennels for a year.
 
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So if you were wanting to vent your frustration on something, would you punch a squishy punchbag, or would you punch the wall next to it?

Some dogs, once someone is on the ground, will go for the buttocks or thighs (even if, as a police dog, they have not been trained on that area) because there is more to grab hold of.



Dogs bite extremities because that's generally what's offered to them first, by us, in defence.
 
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