tigers_eye
Well-Known Member
Wonami, who jumped in the NCs of La Baule, Rome and Rotterdam, and recently won the GP in Toronto is leaving Michael's yard to go to Gregory Wathelet.
Wonami van den Aard to leave Micheal Whitaker
- Thread starter tigers_eye
- Start date
Rambo
Well-Known Member
That's a big loss for Michael (and team GBR)....Wonami was arguably his best horse....i guess Amai will now have to take over as number 1
Michael always seems to have a good horse somewhere in a stable at home though lol!
Michael always seems to have a good horse somewhere in a stable at home though lol!
JCWHITE
Well-Known Member
I loved this horse since I saw him in Bordeaux, two years since.
JC
JC
rocketdog69
Well-Known Member
Who is Gregory Wathelet?????
Anyone know why the horse is leaving Michael????
Anyone know why the horse is leaving Michael????
mikebizz
Well-Known Member
saw this news ysesterday on http://www.studforlife.com/news_detail.php?id=1061
Young Rider
Well-Known Member
Another example of the Whitaker's selling their best horses. Also this week Robert Whitaker sold his best horse Lacroix. How does is this going to help Britain in winning some medlas for 2012?! the Whitaker's are fantastic riders but they are as bad as anyone at selling their horses and Claire Whitaker is on the board on the comittee and John on the board of selectors. Should they not be helping to stop this happening?!
Yet, they used the manager as a scapegoat instead. I think it is time that some very serious questions were asked and some stricter rules enforced, starting by replacing all those who are on the board/selection comittee that have a vested interest in the sport - but then again that won't leave us with many!
What does everyone else think?
Yet, they used the manager as a scapegoat instead. I think it is time that some very serious questions were asked and some stricter rules enforced, starting by replacing all those who are on the board/selection comittee that have a vested interest in the sport - but then again that won't leave us with many!
What does everyone else think?
BBH
Well-Known Member
You can't blame them though, they are running a business. Lets face it this sport will take years to change, if ever, so people are gonna make the sales when they can and selling the top ones will financially support the youngsters coming through.
I think you mean the Whitakers should lead by example and retain their horses for the good of the nation but that imo is a huge ask.
The needs of the BS are far greater than anything the Whitakers can put right in isloation, you need a retention plan nationally for that. Besides I'm not convinced the demise of BS is just down to horsepower and people selling good horses.
I think you mean the Whitakers should lead by example and retain their horses for the good of the nation but that imo is a huge ask.
The needs of the BS are far greater than anything the Whitakers can put right in isloation, you need a retention plan nationally for that. Besides I'm not convinced the demise of BS is just down to horsepower and people selling good horses.
Young Rider
Well-Known Member
LHS - I agree I think the demise is down to more than just horsepower but it IS a major factor and if our top riders keep selling them then how do we get any better? Robert was actually selected to be on the team for Abu Dhabi (spelling?!) when he knew the horse was potentially sold. I think that is a terrible thing to do and that that kind of behaviour does set a bad example.
Maybe there has to be some sort of incentive to keep the horses and it needs a really good business mind to come up with one which works for riders and owners.
Maybe BS should look at the racing and eventing sydicates and set up something similar? We could then have BS 'Team' horses which could be kept for longer if they prove to be sound and any good....
Maybe there has to be some sort of incentive to keep the horses and it needs a really good business mind to come up with one which works for riders and owners.
Maybe BS should look at the racing and eventing sydicates and set up something similar? We could then have BS 'Team' horses which could be kept for longer if they prove to be sound and any good....
JDChaser
Well-Known Member
He's sold Lacroix? Is there a story somewhere about that?
BBH
Well-Known Member
Some people are talking in terms of Horsepower being a major factor in BS'S lack of success this year but I'd buy that argument a bit more if we weren't doing so well in other major competitions, both here and abroad there have been some fantastic success stories. So you do have to ask how come it goes pear shaped with the NC Teams.
Your example of RW and the Abu Dhabi team placing is really an example of putting his own business needs before the nation and again i would say that until he has an incentive not to he and others will continue you to do the same.
Re syndicates I agree it works very well for racing and possibly BE but the only one I can think of for BS was Justin Tuff who wanted syndicate members for a four year old that cost £32,000. Now most of us know a world class potential 4yrs old is gonna be worth a hellava lot more than £32,000. Bear in mind foals have been bought for 5 / 6 figure sums So again it sounds more like a local project than something with serious national potential. I said before even a £1 a class donation would add up to fund national horses.
I do agree though that a radical overhaul is needed, if for nothing else than to satisfy the membership who are clearly less than impressed with their governing body.
Your example of RW and the Abu Dhabi team placing is really an example of putting his own business needs before the nation and again i would say that until he has an incentive not to he and others will continue you to do the same.
Re syndicates I agree it works very well for racing and possibly BE but the only one I can think of for BS was Justin Tuff who wanted syndicate members for a four year old that cost £32,000. Now most of us know a world class potential 4yrs old is gonna be worth a hellava lot more than £32,000. Bear in mind foals have been bought for 5 / 6 figure sums So again it sounds more like a local project than something with serious national potential. I said before even a £1 a class donation would add up to fund national horses.
I do agree though that a radical overhaul is needed, if for nothing else than to satisfy the membership who are clearly less than impressed with their governing body.
Young Rider
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure that's the case yeah. Somebody told me at a show this week. Maybe I should have clarified that my information is actually 2nd hand. Apologies.
I think the news will be out soon though.
I think the news will be out soon though.
3BayGeldings
Well-Known Member
IMO Britain are not overly successful on the International circuit. Yes, we win the odd GP and a few classes.. but that's about it. Ben Maher is the highest in the rankings... at 16th! There are 4 germans before him, two Dutch, two Amercians ... our next rider doesn't appear until 46th (Michael Whitaker) by which point there are another couple of Germans, Dutch, a few French... Sorry, but when you compare our International results to those of other Nations we are nowhere. And i should know, i watch half the competitons online to follow and support the British team (for my sins
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3BayGeldings
Well-Known Member
(P.S. You can watch Leipzig CSI5*-W online for free over the next few days here www.clipmyhorse.de . Opening International class was last night.. Michael W finished 22nd and Ellen W 43rd....
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Young Rider
Well-Known Member
LHS - Your £1 a clas is a good suggestion but I'm not sure members are prepared to foot the bill any more than they are already.
The sydicate thing is a good point too. You need to have some serious players in it and maybe you need to have a board of professionals selcting or finding the young horses.
LHS - Did you already know about RW's sale of Lacroix to?
The sydicate thing is a good point too. You need to have some serious players in it and maybe you need to have a board of professionals selcting or finding the young horses.
LHS - Did you already know about RW's sale of Lacroix to?
BBH
Well-Known Member
Nick Skeltons recent successes at Wellington were none too Shabby imo or Guy Williams at Mechelen ( sp ).
I think sometimes we are in danger of getting on a negativity band wagon when things aren't all bad, looking at results for individual classes are snap shots in time and I think we do have some strong combinations but consistency is where we fall down. I also recognise that the difference being placed or not can be fractions of seconds so its not like in all cases we are so far short of the mark.
I think sometimes we are in danger of getting on a negativity band wagon when things aren't all bad, looking at results for individual classes are snap shots in time and I think we do have some strong combinations but consistency is where we fall down. I also recognise that the difference being placed or not can be fractions of seconds so its not like in all cases we are so far short of the mark.
3BayGeldings
Well-Known Member
Of course they were brilliant, and i'm very rarely actually negative about our riders. I'll joke about it sometimes, but i always support and lord them. I just think that in comparison to other nations we fall seriously short and it certainly needs to be resolved. We're a second division team now though, so it's going to be even trickier to attract and actually keep good horses and to get into the top shows
BBH
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree, now we're relegated its rubbish in terms of sponsorship, press coverage etc which would hopefully lead to investment in new horses but it does give us an opportunity to regroup and bed the new manger in with a view to forward progression.
There are some good younger horses coming through aswell so although we didn't particularly shine last year there's hope on the horizon with a new crop, Carlo, Big Star looks fab, Agento, Billy Congo, and what about horses like Solligette ( sp)
There are some good younger horses coming through aswell so although we didn't particularly shine last year there's hope on the horizon with a new crop, Carlo, Big Star looks fab, Agento, Billy Congo, and what about horses like Solligette ( sp)
3BayGeldings
Well-Known Member
It's interesting you mention Solligette, i was just thinking before is she still with Vicky Tulloch..?
ETA: I ask because the horse is older now, and also as far as i know VT doesn't compete much outside of BSJA premier shows?
ETA: I ask because the horse is older now, and also as far as i know VT doesn't compete much outside of BSJA premier shows?
BBH
Well-Known Member
As far as i'm aware but who knows .
3BayGeldings
Well-Known Member
Interesting. I'm suprised its not like a Leibling thing, where he was given to Carl Hester to ride to benefit the british team. You'd think the horse would have moved up.
BBH
Well-Known Member
Was that the selectors or Donald that chose to send him to Carl though ?
3BayGeldings
Well-Known Member
Who knows, i'd imagine a mixture of both. I'm sure it would have been 'pointed out' to Donald how far the horse could go under Carl H.
Rambo
Well-Known Member
I've said it before nd i'll say it again....we are not overly short of horsepower as a nation...what we are short of is team spirit and team management. When push comes to shove we can hold our own at the highest levels individually...we are also exceptionally good at producing top young horses. When Nick Skelton talks about Big Star he refers to a horse that has it all.....the best he's ever had....and that from a man who has ridden the likes of Arko, Tinkers Boy, Dollar Girl, Apollo, St James and many more. John Whitaker, a man of very few words, already has Peppermill...a horse that is the envy of most of the world elite....and has Argento coming through behind...another superstar in the making. Ben Maher has two world class horses in Robin Hood and Wonderboy. Will Funnell is aiming Billy Congo at 2012 and has a production line coming through behind. Horses will inevitably get sold...but in the case of Wonami and Michael i would be less worried thatn most...Michael wouldn't let one go unlesshe was pretty sure he had another just as good coming through behind. Remember, Amai has been his winning horse recently....and he still has Portofino as backup. He also has a huge new sponsorship deal with Gillespie Investment Group which has been put in place to make sure he has the very best opportunities going into 2012.
As for Lacroix...well, he was never a championship horse....doesn't have the scope for the biggest oxers...so you can't blame Robert for cashing in. As part of the Whitaker dynasty he will likely have something decent to ride in the meantime
As for Lacroix...well, he was never a championship horse....doesn't have the scope for the biggest oxers...so you can't blame Robert for cashing in. As part of the Whitaker dynasty he will likely have something decent to ride in the meantime
tigers_eye
Well-Known Member
QR: Gregory Wathelet is a Belgian rider, who did ride for the Ukraine for a year or two before changing back.
I believe Michael Whitaker did not own Wonami, he has not been sold by his owner, just the ride has changed hands.
I also believe that Maria Gretzer now has some spare time on her hands, maybe the BS should go after her for the British team?
I believe Michael Whitaker did not own Wonami, he has not been sold by his owner, just the ride has changed hands.
I also believe that Maria Gretzer now has some spare time on her hands, maybe the BS should go after her for the British team?
MAG
New User
Does anyone know who has bought Lacroix? Very odd, as i believe Rob was jumping him this evening in Amsterdam.
mac
Well-Known Member
I think the horse is still with vicky as she has fairly recent pictures on her facebook
Luci07
Well-Known Member
Well Dressage had a similiar issue but you have to see that they have really turned the corner and while we aren't there with say, the dutch (!) the sport has come such a long way in a relatively short period of time. Can't really blame Michael for selling his horse - same as Carl Hester with Escapado - there is too much money at stake and while we would all like to say "british medals first" - that doesn't pay the bills and give an income.
so, I liked the idea of syndicates etc - if it could be thought through to all sides can win, then why not?
so, I liked the idea of syndicates etc - if it could be thought through to all sides can win, then why not?
gabanna
Well-Known Member
can any of us say that in the same situation we would nt do the same thing? there is little encouragement for owners to keep top horses in this country, and although medals and glory are great, they dont finance the ongoing costs of keeping a top string on the road.if you were offered a potentially life changing ammount of money for a horse, you would have to think long and hard about the long term effects of putting the country first!
SJFAN
Well-Known Member
As Wonami's owner is Belgian, we should not be surprised that now the horse is at top level, they want him jumping on the Belgian team. Gregory is a very talented rider (won the Hickstead Derby Trial a few years back, and was the rider of the des Hayettes horses before some of them came temporarily to Michael's yard).
Lacroix (as Rambo said, not a Championship horse, not even Super League on Robert's own belief, and he's particularly fond of the horse). He is still with Robert and competing in Bremen this weekend.
Lacroix (as Rambo said, not a Championship horse, not even Super League on Robert's own belief, and he's particularly fond of the horse). He is still with Robert and competing in Bremen this weekend.
joe_carby
Well-Known Member
surely like you and me you look after number 1 and you family 1st and if that means selling a horse to ensure financial security for the time being. then thats more important that a bit of metal on some string.