Would you be mad? & experiences please

Well of course it all depends on how much the horses are being given. My mare was on it for 12 years as part of her epilepsy treatment. The odd thing is, it is supposed to be a POM and I got mine via the vet but someone I know buys it via Ebay (vet knows about this) and I'm pretty sure no prescription is involved in that sale. The side effects apart from the sedative effect (which does wear off in a few days) are filling of the legs, hives and colic. So it is pretty harmless - you would be hard pressed to give even the most greedy horse a dangerous dose because it tastes absolutely vile. Imagine salt dissolved in concentrated acid and you are about there. HOWEVER, if the yard is buying through the vet, and using it for more than one horse, they must be getting through a fair quantity and the vet should be suspicious of this. Also, for a prescription to be issued long term, the vet is supposed to inspect the animal every 6 months. I would be making an appointment to speak to the vet and find out exactly what is going on and making sure I flapped my mouth as much as possible to everyone I could think of in the local horsey world. There is nothing like the grapevine for inflicting maximum damage to a yard!
 
Incidentally, isn't this the stuff that they gave (or used to give) soldiers to stop them thinking about **whispers and puts hand over mouth** sex?[/QUOTE]

That's right. It subdues the sexual urge in both male and females. It has been a licenced drug for well over 100 years so is well researched.
 
fatpiggy said:
Well of course it all depends on how much the horses are being given. My mare was on it for 12 years as part of her epilepsy treatment. The odd thing is, it is supposed to be a POM and I got mine via the vet but someone I know buys it via Ebay (vet knows about this) and I'm pretty sure no prescription is involved in that sale. The side effects apart from the sedative effect (which does wear off in a few days) are filling of the legs, hives and colic. So it is pretty harmless - you would be hard pressed to give even the most greedy horse a dangerous dose because it tastes absolutely vile. Imagine salt dissolved in concentrated acid and you are about there. HOWEVER, if the yard is buying through the vet, and using it for more than one horse, they must be getting through a fair quantity and the vet should be suspicious of this. Also, for a prescription to be issued long term, the vet is supposed to inspect the animal every 6 months. I would be making an appointment to speak to the vet and find out exactly what is going on and making sure I flapped my mouth as much as possible to everyone I could think of in the local horsey world. There is nothing like the grapevine for inflicting maximum damage to a yard!
Click to expand...
How is colic harmless?
 
Oh I think dosing horses unknown to owners with prescription medication deserves a grapevine. And it wouldn't be the side effects I would be worried about - more the sedative effects if I were riding!
 
Absolutely, but there is a big difference between a horse which has had its sharp edges taken off (plenty of people hunt on ACP) and one that can hardly lift its head off the ground. My horse was also on phenobarbitone and she was completely out of it for a few days but then gradually went back to normal. We were back jumping at local shows within 8 weeks and she was as mad as ever. I used to tease the vet by saying that if my horse was sedated then I wanted my money back :)
 
Thankfully, I don't know anyone who would knowingly ride a sedated horse, let alone jump or hunt it. Completely nuts.

OP, I'd be moving too in your situation. Unnacceptable behaviour from your livery yard.
 
The thing is those that hunt on ACP know there horse has been given it and have made that choice, unlike the OP. If an accident were to happen jumping for example I should think that would open a whole extra can of worms on top of the giving script only meds to a horse without owners knowledge or permission.
 
ozpoz said:
Thankfully, I don't know anyone who would knowingly ride a sedated horse, let alone jump or hunt it. Completely nuts.

OP, I'd be moving too in your situation. Unnacceptable behaviour from your livery yard.
Click to expand...


Well I certainly know a few, and I know why they did it too.

As for my own horse, you wouldn't have known she was technically sedated and she was 100% safe to ride. Good thing too really as she would have been a very expensive ornament for the next 12 years. I know of someone who'se horse has recently been put on KBr for some seizure activity and he is doing fine and being ridden again. His owner is far from stupid and the treatment is under the supervision of a noted veterinary college. Unless you have direct and long-term experience of managing drugs like this, you can't just have blanket opinons I'm afraid. Every case is different.

However, there is no excuse for the behaviour of the yard. It is no different from finding they have been oating the horse up without mentioning it to the rider/owner.
 
MrsP* said:
They do change other things (like feed etc.) without telling owners but to be honest they seemed so knowledgeable and experienced that I felt like they knew better.

The owner is happy to let you borrow anything of his which is nice but it's not great in the way that your stuff is also lent to everyone (generally without being returned to where it lived). For instance, I've seen another horse wearing my £50 control headcollar in the field. I said something about that straight away as they are not designed to be left on when turned out.

The facilities are amazing so maybe they feel they can just do what they like and they know best no matter what.
Click to expand...

It's not unusual for stuff to be 'borrowed' on yards but I would question the knowledge and experience of a head groom/owner who needed to actually use a control headcollar let alone leave it on in the field???
 
fatpiggy said:
It isn't unproven!
Click to expand...

there are mixed reports as to whether it actually works or not but that could be down to people not dosing correctly tbf. regardless, a yard thats routinely sedating horses, especially without the owners knowing, should be questioning themselves.Its good to get info from someone with experience of it.


I've seen lots of people ride youngsters on acp when I was working in the racing industry. I also saw a girl get her pelvis smashed when a sedated 2yo spooked and panicked itself when it was doped. I think acp for riding happens a lot more than some people would like to think but wouldn't myself.
 
Fellewell said:
It's not unusual for stuff to be 'borrowed' on yards but I would question the knowledge and experience of a head groom/owner who needed to actually use a control headcollar let alone leave it on in the field???
Click to expand...

really?
someone borrowing without asking=wrong and should not be done, a yard should have it's own equipment and should not borrow clients items for other peoples horses. control headcollar left o should never happen.

using a control headcollar? far better than a chifney that the world and his wife want to put on everything that looks at them wrong.
if a control headcollar or a snaffle were used by someone whos judgement I trusted enough to leave them with responsibilty for my horse that would be fine, would rather they made it to the field/stable where ever safe and in one piece than risk an accident on route
 
twiggy2 said:
really?
someone borrowing without asking=wrong and should not be done, a yard should have it's own equipment and should not borrow clients items for other peoples horses. control headcollar left o should never happen.

using a control headcollar? far better than a chifney that the world and his wife want to put on everything that looks at them wrong.
if a control headcollar or a snaffle were used by someone whos judgement I trusted enough to leave them with responsibilty for my horse that would be fine, would rather they made it to the field/stable where ever safe and in one piece than risk an accident on route
Click to expand...

Well I wouldn't expect someone to handle an untrained/unschooled horse if they weren't experienced and experienced people don't generally need gadgets (some stallions being the exception).

Good luck with your honesty crusade on yards though. I expect you'll need to slap a fair few wrists before you're finished.
 
Fellewell said:
Well I wouldn't expect someone to handle an untrained/unschooled horse if they weren't experienced and experienced people don't generally need gadgets (some stallions being the exception).

Good luck with your honesty crusade on yards though. I expect you'll need to slap a fair few wrists before you're finished.
Click to expand...

some times the experience is what tells you to pop a 'gadget' on in order to keep both you and the horse safe, although what is the definition of gadget some could say a headcollar and lead rope fall in to that category as 'experienced' people should not need those.
I class myself as experienced enough to know when the little mare at work has got cold and hungry (we have been caught out by the rain) that is is a wise move to pop a bridle on her to bring her in rather than have her perform the rear up/lunge forward and kick you with hind feet if possible move that she learnt before I ever set eyes on her-she has not performed this trick for over 2.5yrs with me but it is not something I would like to chance-I value my life and she does not when she is having a bad day
 
twiggy2 said:
some times the experience is what tells you to pop a 'gadget' on in order to keep both you and the horse safe, although what is the definition of gadget some could say a headcollar and lead rope fall in to that category as 'experienced' people should not need those.
I class myself as experienced enough to know when the little mare at work has got cold and hungry (we have been caught out by the rain) that is is a wise move to pop a bridle on her to bring her in rather than have her perform the rear up/lunge forward and kick you with hind feet if possible move that she learnt before I ever set eyes on her-she has not performed this trick for over 2.5yrs with me but it is not something I would like to chance-I value my life and she does not when she is having a bad day
Click to expand...

Perhaps you could bring her in before it starts raining? Or bring her in first? But if she hasn't had a problem in over two years perhaps you've finally cracked it.
 
fatpiggy said:
Well I certainly know a few, and I know why they did it too.

As for my own horse, you wouldn't have known she was technically sedated and she was 100% safe to ride. Good thing too really as she would have been a very expensive ornament for the next 12 years. I know of someone who'se horse has recently been put on KBr for some seizure activity and he is doing fine and being ridden again. His owner is far from stupid and the treatment is under the supervision of a noted veterinary college. Unless you have direct and long-term experience of managing drugs like this, you can't just have blanket opinons I'm afraid. Every case is different.

However, there is no excuse for the behaviour of the yard. It is no different from finding they have been oating the horse up without mentioning it to the rider/owner.
Click to expand...

Well, I do have 20 years experience in managing "drugs like this"... which is why I have formed the opinions I do have.
And other regulatory bodies are of the same opinions leading the use of such drugs to be banned in equine sport on welfare/safety/ethical issues which surely don't need spelling out.
There is no guaranteed seizure free result from any drug.
 
Fellewell said:
Perhaps you could bring her in before it starts raining? Or bring her in first? But if she hasn't had a problem in over two years perhaps you've finally cracked it.
Click to expand...

well I am not getting out of my bed in the dark hours so go and catch a stroppy mare that lives out just to pop a rug on her when it starts raining,
 
and as said before using KBr under veterinary supervision for whatever reason is a whole different ball game to a yard owner giving it to a livery's horse unknown to the owner.
 
Fides said:
Seriously?
Click to expand...

She's cold and hungry and they've been caught out by the rain (add Met Office to favourites perhaps?)
If she lives out they could rug her or perhaps give her a bib clip depending on level of work though of course it is summer. They mentioned she was cold/hungry so I thought perhaps it was time to bring in and she anticipated food and was therefore keen.
Please give more details so that I may give a more comprehensive reply.
 
Fellewell said:
She's cold and hungry and they've been caught out by the rain (add Met Office to favourites perhaps?)
If she lives out they could rug her or perhaps give her a bib clip depending on level of work though of course it is summer. They mentioned she was cold/hungry so I thought perhaps it was time to bring in and she anticipated food and was therefore keen.
Please give more details so that I may give a more comprehensive reply.
Click to expand...

Do you get out of bed at 4am to rug a horse because it has started raining? I wouldn't so I guess I am a bad owner...

Eta - I wouldn't rug a horse 'just in case', better a horse be a little cool than end up covered in sweat scald.

HHO going off topic again lol.

I'm with the camp that regardless of the safety or danger, the YO did this without the owners consent or even knowledge. That's out of order.

OP - how is the yard hunt going?

Eta (again) - 75% chance of rain here today. If I had been working I might have rugged as I have a lesson tonight. As it is, I am off work and it is glorious sunshine - so glad they are naked :)
 
Last edited:
fatpiggy said:
Absolutely, but there is a big difference between a horse which has had its sharp edges taken off (plenty of people hunt on ACP) and one that can hardly lift its head off the ground. My horse was also on phenobarbitone and she was completely out of it for a few days but then gradually went back to normal. We were back jumping at local shows within 8 weeks and she was as mad as ever. I used to tease the vet by saying that if my horse was sedated then I wanted my money back :)
Click to expand...

your horse was on a prescribed dose worked out by a vet for her condition, a little different than what the OP is describing which sounds more like a yard dosing horses up to make their lives easier! they could easily be overdosing and cause either a health problem in the horse or an accident to the owner ,riding a horse on unknown amounts of sedation would not be high on my list of things to do!
 
ozpoz said:
Well, I do have 20 years experience in managing "drugs like this"... which is why I have formed the opinions I do have.
And other regulatory bodies are of the same opinions leading the use of such drugs to be banned in equine sport on welfare/safety/ethical issues which surely don't need spelling out.
There is no guaranteed seizure free result from any drug.
Click to expand...

No, you're right, but there are no guarantees in life end of. My mare's seizures were cyclical so I knew what day they MIGHT happen if the medication didn't block them, I had 16 years of observation to tell me that she would behave in certain odd ways the day before a seizure, I knew what her trigger was so provided we cleared that I knew she would be absolutely fine that day, and I knew the warning signs that her medication wasn't sufficient any more. A doseage level usually lasted around 6 months before it had to be upped. Care and constant observation meant she only had 4 breakthrough seizures in 12 years of treatment and those were much milder than an unmedicated one. I'd call that pretty good control I think.
 
Hi all, thanks for your replies.

I have found another yard but can't move until Wednesday unfortunately. I'm wondering what to do with taking him off the bromide. Do I just stop it completely or should he be weaned off it slowly?


ps.... I don't mind anyone borrowing my things whatsoever, it's just annoying that they are never put back. My tack box now literally only contains one body brush (when it arrived rammed full of brushes, hoof oil, fly spray, sponges, curry combs, hoof picks, mane combs, scissors etc.) so it's difficult to get the mud off my horse! I've hunted round the yard to find my things that many times to no avail. I will start again and buy another set of everything for the new yard but it's still a bit frustrating.
 
Catching up late on this but Mrs P, I would have been absolutely livid. I am lucky enough (although it doesn't always feel like it), to be DIY so cannot envisage this situation but I suspect I would have had to be restrained.

I am glad you have found somewhere to move.

In terms of your stuff disappearing, I, too, am pretty relaxed about people borrowing as long as they return things but very cross if they don't. Mark everything you buy with either your name or your horse's name. While some cases of "permanent borrowing" are deliberate (in which case it's called stealing), I am sure many are not and seeing your name on an item in their grooming kit can help to prompt anyone with a conscience to return it.

Good luck at your new yard!
 
Thank goodness you replied OP as this thread was going off on a somewhat jaunty tangent. As for weaning off the stuff, I think you need to speak with your vet. The last thing you want is to trigger some side effect by withdrawing it in one hit without the vet first telling you that its ok. Maybe you ought to ask the yard staff if there is anything else your horse is currently on that you dont know about just to be safe?!?
 
I haven't really got a current vet (the vet I use at the moment is very good friends with the YO who I now don't trust) so I might call my old vet (whose in a different area) for some advice.

My worry is how he is going to react, after being on it for a few weeks, especially when moving to a new home as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top