Would you buy pssm2?

[Glitter's fun]

https://www.uu.nl/en/news/pssm-in-h...ely,increased concentration of muscle enzymes.

This from Utrecht University explains about biopsies quite well, although its from 3 years ago.

 

[Anna Ern]

The horse needs to be tying up/ having/just had an episode, area of collection needs to be spot on, collection needs to be correct, fixation, storage and transport need to be within optimum conditions and appropriate staining needs to be conducted.
My p3/px would never tie up as his muscles are completely toneless, floppy and jelly like even after exercise so a biopsy would be pointless.

 

[catembi]

No. I have had six that tested positive. I know that there is a lot of 'controversy' over the type 2 test, but I know a reasonable amount about the attributes of the different variants & every horse that has been tested has had symptoms that match with their variant/s. I have one retire just past his 4th birthday (n/p1, n/p4, px/px), one retire at 6 (n/p4 - this is a bad variant), one retire at 4 at the just backed stage (px/px), one retire at 6 or 7 (n/p1, n/p3, px/px) my old ex racer who has never been right in the 13 years that I've had him (n/p3, n/px) and my new chap who is n/p2, n/p3, n/px. I am trying extremely hard to manage the new chap, who is 10, and am doing so much reading & research. Despite all this (and I have a doctorate, so know how to research & to evaluate research, & am also autistic so somewhat obsessive), I mostly feel that I am fighting a losing battle. He is such a good horse but his body simply cannot perform and it's heartbreaking. I don't know what to do. I have four at home - 3 x PSSMs & a Shetland - and I don't want to retire the new one as he's such a kind, intelligent, honest horse. I also don't want five at home and can't afford any more as the amount I spend on supplements for the PSSMs is alarming, I've spent all my savings on broken horses, I don't want to PTS anyone as they seem to enjoy their lives...but I want to RIDE, and at affil sj & dr level and I am not getting any younger.

Sorry, I have deviated wildly off topic but I have been stewing on my situation all day without any danger of getting to a conclusion, principally as I am thinking of getting an expensive, therapeutic piece of kit and am not sure if it would be a positive thing to do or if I am clutching at straws. The short answer is as originally stated - NO I would NOT knowingly buy another PSSM horse. I will also not UN knowingly buy one either as in a million years' time when I have space and funds for another, it will be tested prepurchase.

Aaarrgghhh, sometimes I just hate everything.

 

[Winters100]

No, and would also not take one as a gift.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Someone at the yard I was at had a pssm horse, 14.2 cob, 11 years old and for the last 5 had pssm. She seemed to manage it with her and she just sold for 6k ? even with divulging it

 

[Anna Ern]

No. I have had six that tested positive. I know that there is a lot of 'controversy' over the type 2 test, but I know a reasonable amount about the attributes of the different variants & every horse that has been tested has had symptoms that match with their variant/s. I have one retire just past his 4th birthday (n/p1, n/p4, px/px), one retire at 6 (n/p4 - this is a bad variant), one retire at 4 at the just backed stage (px/px), one retire at 6 or 7 (n/p1, n/p3, px/px) my old ex racer who has never been right in the 13 years that I've had him (n/p3, n/px) and my new chap who is n/p2, n/p3, n/px. I am trying extremely hard to manage the new chap, who is 10, and am doing so much reading & research. Despite all this (and I have a doctorate, so know how to research & to evaluate research, & am also autistic so somewhat obsessive), I mostly feel that I am fighting a losing battle. He is such a good horse but his body simply cannot perform and it's heartbreaking. I don't know what to do. I have four at home - 3 x PSSMs & a Shetland - and I don't want to retire the new one as he's such a kind, intelligent, honest horse. I also don't want five at home and can't afford any more as the amount I spend on supplements for the PSSMs is alarming, I've spent all my savings on broken horses, I don't want to PTS anyone as they seem to enjoy their lives...but I want to RIDE, and at affil sj & dr level and I am not getting any younger.

Sorry, I have deviated wildly off topic but I have been stewing on my situation all day without any danger of getting to a conclusion, principally as I am thinking of getting an expensive, therapeutic piece of kit and am not sure if it would be a positive thing to do or if I am clutching at straws. The short answer is as originally stated - NO I would NOT knowingly buy another PSSM horse. I will also not UN knowingly buy one either as in a million years' time when I have space and funds for another, it will be tested prepurchase.

Aaarrgghhh, sometimes I just hate everything.

I feel for you. I have one np3/npx and a p3/p3 both of which are symptomatic and cannot perform and another as yet not symptomatic that is n/px. I totally agree with you over knowing the genetic variants so that management can be tweaked accordingly. Peer review is not required in my mind for this as genetic testing is already validated and the identification of these genes linked to the specific symptoms does not require a peer reviewed “name” for the condition

 

[tallyho!]

At least you know… many who buy for thousands more may be buying a PSSM unknowingly. Those who buy for competition prospect at 3/4 may not show symptoms until 6/7…

I would buy a positive tested one knowingly. Like someone has said the probability of having one anyway is pretty high. Having managed PSSM before, I feel that I have more hope about this condition than some. It can be managed successfully sometimes, other times it might be not. But at least you know.

If you carry out the research and find that it is not something you can manage then it’s not for you. If it is, join the various support groups and keep your eyes and mind wide open.

 

[Rowreach]

I'm really struggling to post a link off my phone but if you Google warmbloods and PSSM 2 you should come up with an article showing that the big German breed societies are supporting the research with CAG (the lab doing the genetic tests). The more input the better really because then we'll get a view as to what genetics we can help with diet, exercise - or what we need to breed out

Yes, the 6 variant panel test for PSSM2 is now being subsidised by research grants (costs well under €200) and more and more people are getting both symptomatic and asymptomatic (based on breeds prone to the disease) tested, and developing databases on the results. So you can access much more information on breeding lines and susceptibility. Plenty of reputable breeders are removing breeding stock from their programmes as a result.

It annoys me when people say oh there’s no reliable test for xyz because there never will be without research, and that’s what these guys are doing, developing the test, researching the management, and providing information that means we can hopefully avoid breeding so many of these poor suffering horses in the first place.

And to answer the original question, no, I would not knowingly buy a horse with it.

 

[SEL]

@catembi I have two retired PSSM horses and I don't go over board on supplements any longer. I have vitamin E for everything (there's no grass!) but the odd scoop of that and salt is all the Appy gets now. Spillers balancer but I probably wouldn't have bothered with that if all my grass hadn't burnt off.

Maybe because I'm not riding but I haven't seen any difference really. The Appy looks great until she trots across the field and her back end is all stiff - but she's happy enough with pet status. So you might find pulling back on some stuff is ok for the unridden ones

 

[catembi]

Agreed…my main supplements are vitamin E and also equivita which has everything a PSSM needs. However, Trev has gastric symptoms which p3s tend to get, so he is on gastric supplements including AloeRide which is jolly expensive but stops him getting gassy colics. Then Thor is on pain relief and muscle relaxants as that’s what I am exploring atm. When Trev was being assessed for ks surgery they put local anaesthetic in his back and when I rode him for them, he was so much better, but then the ks surgery led to no improvement. My current theory is that the local anaesthetic knocked out the muscle pain from PSSM, hence trying herbal remedies for it. I have just discovered cramp bark, but it’s early days.

 

[Birker2020]

I'm really struggling to post a link off my phone but if you Google warmbloods and PSSM 2 you should come up with an article showing that the big German breed societies are supporting the research with CAG (the lab doing the genetic tests). The more input the better really because then we'll get a view as to what genetics we can help with diet, exercise - or what we need to breed out

https://www.eurodressage.com/2021/03/27/german-breed-societies-support-gene-research-pssm2

 

[shortstuff99]

The reason why the genetic test is not peer reviewed is because currently they can't show that these genetic regions cause this disease specifically. They can say that there is a link but there have been too many horses that are symptomatic and have none of these gene regions and horses that are not symptomatic that do. Until they can define that link with more research then it won't be peer reviewed. These gene regions are also not new, they have been shown to be pretty common in horses from 1000s of years ago.