Would you buy this horse?

[ihatework]

I disagree. The poster has clearly stated she is wanting this horse to continue her jumping career. Regardless of how well she may believe she keeps her horses, this particular one is not going to do the job she wants, to tell her it is the one is unfair on her given lack of experience and knowledge and even more unfair and cruel to the horse OP describes.

I have ridden several horses I very much regret riding in my youth, but never because they were unsound or unwell, luckily those around me would soon have put me right had I attempted to do so.

Sorry, you disagree on what?

I agree on everything you have posted here.
I also agree on your post about drip feeding info.

What I pulled you up on was calling the OP rude and obnoxious. As I have to say that is not my interpretation. I also dislike the undertone Tiddlypom used when digging through past posts.

 

[mariaandefe]

I disagree. The poster has clearly stated she is wanting this horse to continue her jumping career. Regardless of how well she may believe she keeps her horses, this particular one is not going to do the job she wants, to tell her it is the one is unfair on her given lack of experience and knowledge and even more unfair and cruel to the horse OP describes.

I have ridden several horses I very much regret riding in my youth, but never because they were unsound or unwell, luckily those around me would soon have put me right had I attempted to do so.

The horse is not clinically unsound? The horse has a health problem, which may lead to unsoundness in the future. The health problem is cosmetic as of now. Never once did I say I plan to compete this horse in a GP tomorrow, I have known this horse since 2023 and me, my family and my trainer said that there is a HUGE road to recovery for this horse, but as of now (I cannot speak for the future) the horse is clinically sound. Maybe the horse will never mentally recover, even retired or retired from jumping, we don’t know. My vet has TONS of experience (I work with 2 vets usually) this one in particular is more experienced

 

[ihatework]

The horse is not clinically unsound? The horse has a health problem, which may lead to unsoundness in the future. The health problem is cosmetic as of now. Never once did I say I plan to compete this horse in a GP tomorrow, I have known this horse since 2023 and me, my family and my trainer said that there is a HUGE road to recovery for this horse, but as of now (I cannot speak for the future) the horse is clinically sound. Maybe the horse will never mentally recover, even retired or retired from jumping, we don’t know. My vet has TONS of experience (I work with 2 vets usually) this one in particular is more experienced

To be fair though, part of the issue is the drip feeding info and changing the weighting of the info given. Initially I was wtf is this horse being ridden. But on later postings I’ve eased to ‘this might be manageable’ (I still wouldn’t buy based on the behaviours though).

Half the problem could be us going Turkish vet = useless vet. Which might be very unfair of us.

 

[Mrs. Glittery Jingle Balls]

Well it is good we have some areas of agreement @ ihatework , but the OP has been rude and dismissive of several opinions offered to her. There is no need for that is there, it does lead to the assumption that the only requirement on this thread is to agree that this horse is wonderful and will do the job and OP is an ideal person to reshape the horses well being and soundness going forward with her jumping ambitions.

I also said earlier on I think they are articulate and appear to have done at least some research, but with further input my original opinion has altered somewhat, the story is being altered to challenge any opinion given as the thread lengthens!

@mariaandefe if the horse faces a HUGE road to recovery that is not the horse you described originally is it? The horse described by you IS showing unsoundness already, you have said yourself it is stiff in its movement, that my dear is unsound and ergo would fail a vetting.

This is now becoming more and more pointless to discuss. You've had excellent advice from some forum members, if you choose to cherry pick those that suit your agenda then work away. Good luck to you and more importantly I wish this horse well wherever it ends up.

I'm out.

 

[tristars]

I have had horses pass the vet, with ufp as sound

There is degrees of this often not understood condition

I have a horse who would catch the stifle, as opposed to locking, when he was mature it was intermittent I gave him a dose of vit e daily, turned him out for the winter, since then he has gone on to be fabulous and happy the catching has all But disapeared

When we talk about suppleness we mean that the horse most horses have a natural inclination of their body, usually to the right which means they have longer muscles on the left side of the body, the idea of the schooling is to develop the side with the shorter muscles, because unschooled they actually travel crooked, travelling straight is very important to a jumping horse, a crooked horse has to make a bigger effort to clear a jump, his hind legs may not both be in the right place at takeoff to give max impulsion

This does mean there is not other reasons the horse is crooked or compensating

Usually when one part of the body is giving a problem other parts join in as the whole thing becomes twisted out of sync identifying the main problem then needs to also address the overall damage

I must say your English is excellent, so glad you have turnout that's the important thing, freedom to move, roll, run

Also if he is crooked, the saddle may be uncomfortable

Also the saddle may be uncomfortable, when crooked it could well be different each side of the withers

I knew a lady who maintained jumping horses saddles, she said very often when she restuffed a saddle the horses jumped better, a jumping horse needs decent spinal clearance to form a bascule

 

[HeresHoping]

I'd be patient and keep looking.

I'd suggest the "insanely strong" to jump is borne out of either fear or pain (or both)
Personally, from your description of him, I'd be unhappy to ride him for free, let alone buy him.
The only reason I'd buy him would be so that I could make sure he didn't have to jump again.

This, with bells on. Horses are strong around jumps because they are running from pain, 99% of the time.

Sorry, @mariaandefe, this one will be a hospital trip and a massive vet bill in the making.

 

[misst]

Not read all the replies but I can't think of one good reason to take this horse for free never mind pay for it.
It is basically lame, it sounds very very uncomfortable and stressed. Why is it being ridden?!
An accident waiting to happen by the sound of things.
Poor poor horse.

 

[misst]

Having read all the replies I am sorry OP but this is dreadful. I understand you are young but the horse has issues. He's "stiff"/ sore. He's unhappy. You've had advice you didn't like so changed your story.
Im out.

 

[I'm Dun]

The horse is not clinically unsound? The horse has a health problem, which may lead to unsoundness in the future. The health problem is cosmetic as of now. Never once did I say I plan to compete this horse in a GP tomorrow, I have known this horse since 2023 and me, my family and my trainer said that there is a HUGE road to recovery for this horse, but as of now (I cannot speak for the future) the horse is clinically sound. Maybe the horse will never mentally recover, even retired or retired from jumping, we don’t know. My vet has TONS of experience (I work with 2 vets usually) this one in particular is more experienced

would a young horse bred for the job not be a better idea? At least you could vet and know theres no underlying issues.

 

[DressageCob]

he has significant issues riding wise (scared of oncoming horses in the arena, insanely strong when jumping, scared of every tiny noise and move of a branch, has zero flatwork skills).

However, yesterday the vet came for a vetcheck. He found a problem in his RH on his stifle, exostosis as he said. Which makes him stiff on the right rein, he also gave him a + on a flexion test on the right hind. There are also some minor tiny things, but the stifle problem bothers me.

I’m only looking into this horse because my first horse is injured and I need to move on in the sport, and he’s the only horse in my budget right now. If anyone knows any good horses for sale at the moment please let me know too

I am jumping 110-120 courses at the moment. I have ridden this horse all summer for his owners, jumped him up to 145 (not courses).

He is sound in general, he is just incredibly stiff. But yes, he is VERY stressed. He is an angel in his stable and in hands, but immediately as you get on he’s very tense and stressed.

he doesn’t get any supplements or decent feed (he is on plain oats and hay). They are all well aware of the problem, no one seems to care.

Compensation from another area do you think? As his RH is problematic, and he’s stiff on right rein.

And yet...

Hi,

Honestly from my view, I cannot see him being stiff as my eye isn’t as trained as my vet who sees multiple horses on the daily. The vet said on the right rein on the lunge he is slightly imbalanced (as it says on the clinical report).

No, he is not lame during work.

No, I don’t feel him being stiff.

Your posts are inconsistent. You cannot in one breath say the horse is incredibly stiff and in the next say you can't feel any stiffness. You've gone from being worried about the stifle issues to saying he's 100% sound, even though the vet said he was stiff and positive on flexion tests.

More importantly, you say this horse is relaxed in the stable but immediately tense and stressed when you ride. Despite his stress and his stiffness you have ridden this horse all summer up to 145cm. Do you not see the issue there? It's just as exploitative as all the other riders you are apparently disgusted with.

I'm sorry to be blunt. I'm not normally one to engage in this type of discussion, but you seem to be operating from the point of view that your horse ownership is perfect, you're an exception, you're better than the other riders etc. but you're demonstrating the same behaviours. Even this post shows you're willing to push a horse beyond what it is happy with, make him very stressed, expose him to environments and situations he has communicated he is unhappy with, all because you need to move up the levels. You've jumped him all summer.


Anyway, it looks like you've already taken on the horse, so why the thread?

And yes, the lack of suppleness is most likely contributing to his health problems 100%. The vet also said he must be moving as much as possible.
I’ve moved him to my stable where my horse is, changed his diet plan a bit, massages, lots of grooming, all the little children are looking after him, washing him, playing with him.

Anyway, to answer your question. No I would not buy. I personally wouldn't ride him, and I certainly wouldn't be jumping him but that's where you and I differ.

 

[Pony mad 5]

Hi,

I’m a bit confused and genuinely I cannot think about this anymore as I am going insane.

There is a horse that I am looking into buying. 11yo gelding jumped up to 140cm, he has significant issues riding wise (scared of oncoming horses in the arena, insanely strong when jumping, scared of every tiny noise and move of a branch, has zero flatwork skills).

Ok fine, I can manage this.

However, yesterday the vet came for a vetcheck. He found a problem in his RH on his stifle, exostosis as he said. Which makes him stiff on the right rein, he also gave him a + on a flexion test on the right hind. There are also some minor tiny things, but the stifle problem bothers me. What do you guys think?

I’m only looking into this horse because my first horse is injured and I need to move on in the sport, and he’s the only horse in my budget right now. If anyone knows any good horses for sale at the moment please let me know too

Personally I would not buy anything with issues. Why is he for sale? The right one will come along be patient. The effort and expense these days is bigger than ever. Don’t add vices to the mix is my advice. Good luck what ever you decide.

 

[starbucker]

Yes, but the thoughts ‘If i don’t buy him, he’ll end up in an even worse home than he is now’ constantly play in my head. I feel so sorry for him

You can't save them all. I think you need to hear this. we all have that horse (or several) who touched our heart but have been broken before us. look after the one you have and get a second sound one when the right one comes along.

 

[tristars]

That's what bothers me

Horse is abused, tries its best ends up broken

Ends up with long journey to slaughter house in Russia

Never mind just buy another

No-one knows if this horse is done for or if with input it will recover


Op has vet, trainer, mother all on board , it's a tough one to call, especially for the horse

 

[spike123]

what are your hopes for the future with this horse? If you can manage the issues and vet agrees he can physically do the job then yes go ahead but I seriously doubt there won't be issues in the future. I had a horse who had stifle issues. He got kicked and it literally obliterated the ligament. With correct rehab, veterinary input, medication and arthramid we got him comfortable ridden for 2 years which is way beyond the vets expectations. She didn't even think he'd be sound for ridden work. We actually even won a dressage test once he was comfortable. However a year later I had him pts because he was bone on bone and had no options for treatment. You need to really contemplate the fact that he's sore and failed flexion means he is slightly lame or at least in pain there. I don't think you can consider a jumping career for this horse in future especially as he's not a young horse. It's very likely he will at best be a trail horse rather than a jumper.

 

[misst]

That's what bothers me

Horse is abused, tries its best ends up broken

Ends up with long journey to slaughter house in Russia

Never mind just buy another

No-one knows if this horse is done for or if with input it will recover


Op has vet, trainer, mother all on board , it's a tough one to call, especially for the horse

OP wants this horse to progress her SJ career not to rescue. Shes been jumping him all summer despite him being stiff, scared, rushing. Her words not mine at the beginning of this thread. She's also stated good vets are scarce where she is as are good farriers and she has problems getting care for her current horse.
This horse may be salvageable or he may not. Harsh as I sound, from this and previous threads OP does not have the experience or insight to do this. I would also question her motives. She is young and ambitious, no harm in that, but this horse is not the answer to her problems.
If I were her mother I would also be questioning her safety reading her opening statements.

 

[tristars]

If those that are caught don’t get punished severely then how will there ever be change?
A slap on the wrists for these horrendous crimes against horses hasn't stopped these practices being taught, supported or encouraged so far so make the

OP wants this horse to progress her SJ career not to rescue. Shes been jumping him all summer despite him being stiff, scared, rushing. Her words not mine at the beginning of this thread. She's also stated good vets are scarce where she is as are good farriers and she has problems getting care for her current horse.
This horse may be salvageable or he may not. Harsh as I sound, from this and previous threads OP does not have the experience or insight to do this. I would also question her motives. She is young and ambitious, no harm in that, but this horse is not the answer to her problems.
If I were her mother I would also be questioning her safety reading her opening statements.

I think all different view points are just that different

I'm coming mainly from the horses angle if you read what I said prev

The horse can't make decisions about its future, only the humans involved, they have to work through the situation and make choices for the horse in an ongoing case

Only they can work out if taking on the horse will be good or bad for them and if taking it to Europe will help

At the very least op shows humanity towards the horse and cares about its future even if torn between competing and rescuing

The bigger part of horsemanship for me is when the chips are down the real horse person acknowledges there is a problem

Which leads to choosing the right path should she forego competing for the moment and help the horse or walk away and leave the horse to its fate, its a gamble

Who knows if the horse was turned out for 12 months what you may have, no one

 

[Mrs. Glittery Jingle Balls]

I think anyone encouragaing this young person to buy this horse under any of the circumstances she has stated, is behaving in an extremely unethical and inappropriate way. This is NOT how we need to be educating young riders and horse owners for the welfare of horses going forward. OP has made no secret that she has been happily riding this very broken horse (by her own account) and is buying it purely because she intends to carry on 'furthering her show jumping career' on this poor old knackered show jumper.

As the thread has developed, when any justifiable case has been put forward that this horse is NOT appropriate for OP's ambitions and desires with her horse riding, the original tone of OP's initial statement has changed and has developed into a wish to 'rescue' said horse. Didn't we all have dreams and goals that for a lot of us weren't realistic at that time and on entirely unsuitable horses. We had to get over ourselves and use more realistic achievements and growing riding skills to further our dreams, possibly never, sometimes many years later if we were lucky.

Time for lessons to be learned here, we do NOT abuse any horse purely to satisfy our own wishes, the horse's welfare MUST always be first and foremost in any decisions. This particular horse is NOT being rescued, it is being considered for purchase to work in a sport that it is no longer fit for, that is morally and ethically wrong. Sorry, but I cannot say this strongly enough. We all harp on about horse's welfare and then several people are happily encouraging a young rider to throw away their moral compass and just ride any old horse that might give them a few rounds of jumping, even if that finally breaks the horse completely.

Frankly this thread has opened my eyes to a disapointing number of H&H members who seem to happily encourage this behaviour in a young an obviously very inexperienced horse owner and forego a golden opportunity to give appropriate and principled advice. I liked to think (well hoped anyway) that some are just doing so to score points against or with other members depending on their particular viewpoint (it happens, don;t we all know it?) rather than grasping at the very transparent hastily changed reason for purchase to justify themselves.

Edited to add, please see my further post #80 that apologises for stating 'some' forum members have encouraged OP when it is actually probably only one that has done so.

 

[ihatework]

WTF Mrs. Jingle!!!! I certainly haven’t encouraged the OP to buy and neither has anyone else. There has been no points scoring on my part. Just a smidge of empathy for someone who is young has a bit to learn and a hopefully more gentle & less spiteful steer towards making the right choices for both their own development (riding & internet posting!) and the horses welfare

 

[Mrs. Glittery Jingle Balls]

WTF Mrs. Jingle!!!! I certainly haven’t encouraged the OP to buy and neither has anyone else. There has been no points scoring on my part. Just a smidge of empathy for someone who is young has a bit to learn and a hopefully more gentle & less spiteful steer towards making the right choices for both their own development (riding & internet posting!) and the horses welfare

Did I single you out ihatework? I think not. I stand by every word I wrote, if it doesn't apply to you then I can't see what your problem is? The OP has very much been encouraghed on this thread, and if you can't see that, well what can I say.

 

[Mrs. Glittery Jingle Balls]

@ ihatework, I just lost internet, tried to reply quickly. Firstly an apology, I very quickly re read this thread this morning to respond to a new post on here. Incorrectly I noticed several posts when skim reading that do in fact encourage purchase. On looking again in light of your post ihatework, it is NOT several posters but the same poster everytime! I think that should now clarify I am not refering to several posters but one in particular. I am sure it will be very obvious which one if the thread is re read by anyone who wishes to do so. My apolgies again, I will not re correct my thread as it does clarify why ihatework was quite cross with my post. Unless of course, you would prefer I did so?

 

[ihatework]

Did I single you out ihatework? I think not. I stand by every word I wrote, if it doesn't apply to you then I can't see what your problem is? The OP has very much been encouraghed on this post, and if you can't see that, well what can I say.

I’ll go to specsavers then, because I cannot see a single post that has encouraged the OP to buy the horse.

There is one poster who has, the way I read it, adopted a stance of there is a reasonable hope the horse could be adequately managed with time and care. They aren’t necessarily wrong. They aren’t necessarily right.

 

[ihatework]

@ ihatework, I just lost internet, tried to reply quickly. Firstly an apology, I very quickly re read this thread this morning to respond to a new post on here. Incorrectly I noticed several posts when skim reading that do in fact encourage purchase. On looking again in light of your post ihatework, it is NOT several posters but the same poster everytime! I think that should now clarify I am not refering to several posters but one in particular. I am sure it will be very obvious which one if the thread is re read by anyone who wishes to do so. My apolgies again, I will not re correct my thread as it does clarify why ihatework was quite cross with my post. Unless of course, you would prefer I did so?

Accepted. Thank you for clarifying

 

[Spiderpig2009]

Hi,

No I plan to rehab my injured horse in Istanbul near the vet clinic (where they can look at his leg more often with the ultrasound as well as do all sorts of therapies). Then i plan to move him to Europe, as there is no point moving a horse to Europe who cannot be turned out at least. He is on a gentle treatment (blister in english i think it is) at the moment. He is moving in 10 days to istanbul where he will begin ridden work and turnout (+ shockwave).

Your thoughts are exactly my colleagues thoughts ahah, they say exactly the same thing! Actually, prices here are much higher than in Europe. I was scouting a lot on facebook and auctions etc, and the current horsemarket is insane

I am hoping it’s just the translation here- blistering and “gentle” are not to be used together. This practice has not been used in the UK for a long time and is viewed as controversial.

I am also confused - Istanbul is in Europe is it not? Or is it the Asian side? When you say Europe it’s quite a big continent

 

[Spiderpig2009]

There is a lot going on in this scenario. No 1 is this is a horse at 11 years old - no idea of the horse itself as they are all so different at that age. Has been jumping at 1.40, having had an accident over 1.60. 11 is quite young to have been jumping 1.40 classes, so many good horses I have known to jump this level at this age and they don’t last long. Competing at 1.40 is very different to the novice classes where you occasionally jump bigger fences in a final eg newcomer second rounds in the uk.

It is obviously a good genuine horse, which imo has been taken advantage of. Needless to say the poor thing is suffering both physically and mentally. It’s heartbreaking. Read a book called Black Beauty and it may make you think twice…

OP- you say you are looking to further your career, and want a horse to take you there. This is a critical point- having been an enthusiastic amateur jumper myself in my younger years, I can tell you that showjumpers have several horses to ride- either funded by themselves or sponsors. The finances surrounding showjumping is huge- it’s great when a not so wealthy person “gets to the top” as it were on talent, but I have seen first hand the money required to be a top level showjumper.

You mention you have been jumping 1.10-1.20, I can tell you hands down this is a completely different game to 1.40 onwards on horses. It’s a whole new level that isn’t just a few holes on the wings- you have to be really good to do it. It’s only lots of riding and experience, guts and talent that bridges that gap. My wonderful horse carried me and let me make my mistakes round 1.20’s- you can’t make those mistakes around bigger courses.

This horse is unsound at an early age of 11 which is no surprise because no care has been taken with him and now he is broken. Poor thing needs to be cared for and looked after..It’s shameful.

Everyone should have dreams OP- you say you are involved in showjumping so you should know all I have said so far.

Sometimes “that one horse” is the making of a rider. But usually, these “one horses” come to riders of real talent and experience from many years of riding many horses and courses. Buying a horse to take you from 1.10 to 1.40 is a whole world in between. A schoolmaster is an excellent idea- but the truth is not all will be happy to accept the mistakes of a novice when they have been ridden by people who can put them on the perfect stride, not pull back or mess up to get them to 1.40 in the first place.

Everyone has to learn somewhere. As others have said go and ride for someone and get experience. I really hate to say it, but when I was jumping as a hobby, the pros who did it for their job had significant financial backing. Many were millionaires and more. That doesn’t mean to say they all are. The others work a very hard life, running their own yard, not at a ‘barn’, selling and breaking and competing horses for others to make ends meet. At some of the shows I went to some of their lorries were worth more than the house I owned in those days. I just enjoyed being part of it- and actually doing well sometimes as just an amateur with a horse I loved and as a hobby

If it is me not understanding correctly and it’s just the next horse you are after to jump for yourself then that’s a bit easier. This poor horse you say is scared of fillers, that must be recent because he wouldn’t have got to 1.40 without jumping 100’s if not 1000’s of fillers and very wide oxers. He has jacked it, and I don’t blame him. If you want to go up a few levels get something that hasn’t been treated this badly. Just awful poor thing