Would you do this to your dog?

[Teaselmeg]

You posted links to a couple of trainers. I had a quick look but it certainly does seem to take a long time, and involves kennel training dogs from what I read (though I admit I just skimmed first couple of paras), can't see that would be the best method for Michen or most other pet owners. I have seen a few dogs where an electric collar was used and the reaction lasted a couple of seconds, and then the dog was back to normal. The most aversive piece of equipment I have seen used on dogs is a halti type headcollar. I have yet to see a dog who isn't either pawing at it, rubbing its face or completely shut down.

Not a fan of headcollars, but if the headcollar is introduced slowly and paired with a reward, the dog will not paw at it etc. Sadly most people can't be bothered to take that time, like you I've seen many dogs pawing at their faces etc.

 

[Michen]

I posted my suggestions much earlier in this thread. It takes longer, but involves the dog learning to avoid the smell and movement of the snake and does not involve taping the snakes mouth shut either ! Sadly no one wants to put the work in, and want that quick fix.

Oh FGS, I don’t HAVE time. Rattle snakes are year round here. Yes they are mostly pretty sleepy atm and so not a huge threat but they are still around. We are nearing 30 degrees this week and they are coming out.

So no, I don’t have time. I didn’t exactly have months at my disposal to make sure she was rattle snake proof before the problem was a problem.

Oh and by the way it’s really s***** to make someone feel bad about something they’ve already done that they were clearly very worried and upset about (per my post). So maybe take some of the empathy you apply to snakes and apply it to humans.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I've never said dogs should go through life without stress All dogs like us have a level of stress every day.

There are several published, peer reviewed studies that showed that whilst shock collars do work, reward based training worked better long term. Certainly I prefer being paid to work rather than doing it because of the unpleasant consequences if I don't.

I am no bunny hugger, but when there is a kinder alternative I will definitely chose that. Certainly I don't want another animal to suffer abuse so I can train my dog, that is horrific.

I think it's a bit reductive to suggest that a dog trained with consequences doesn't also get rewards. You don't get paid not to break the speed limit.

 

[Fellewell]

So sorry that I forgot to remember adders.

with the exception of water moccasins our snakes don't want to be seen and will do what they can to not be bothered. Many dogs around here are bitten on the foot or face by copperheads. BTW, black snakes eat copperheads. The bites on the face are from sticking their noses too close to the snake and the feet are of course, from accidentally stepping on the snakes.

I've only seen 2 copperheads on my nature trail walks. Both were in the same section. Neither one bothered us. The dogs ran right over one. It was so still even after that that I thought it might be dead. I flicked with a dog lead and it was certainly alive.

for those of you who are unaware of this fact, the snake's head can bite for quite a while after it's dead. I can't remember if that's only if the head is cut off or not.

Oh don't mind me I've got a very bad case of soggy grazing.

I couldn't match the diversity of wildlife you enjoy but I did once have to slam on the brakes for a black racer snake in the Everglades. Someone else identified him as a racer and he definitely wasn't living up to his name at the time. I understand they have a problem with Burmese pythons now, they're an invasive species and an apex predator so culls have been carried out? It's a shame those who released them originally didn't consider the consequences.
Snakes are fascinating creatures though and lots of people feel very passionately about them that's for sure.

 

[GSD Woman]

It gets worse I'm not a snake fan, but taping their mouths closed WTF !!

But is it any more stressful to the snake than milking the venom? I'm guessing it's six of one and half dozen of the other.

Not a fan of headcollars, but if the headcollar is introduced slowly and paired with a reward, the dog will not paw at it etc. Sadly most people can't be bothered to take that time, like you I've seen many dogs pawing at their faces etc.

I took that time with one of my dogs. She still hated it.
I worked for a board certified veterinary surgeon years ago. He had no double blind studies but once head halters became popular he saw an increase in neck issues. These included breeds that didn't/don't normally have neck problems.

 

[GSD Woman]

I couldn't match the diversity of wildlife you enjoy but I did once have to slam on the brakes for a black racer snake in the Everglades. Someone else identified him as a racer and he definitely wasn't living up to his name at the time. I understand they have a problem with Burmese pythons now, they're an invasive species and an apex predator so culls have been carried out?

There is a huge problem with Burmese pythons. There are culls but they're a drop in the bucket compared to the problem. Females produce a lot of babies. I'm thinking live but it may be eggs. Several species that are only in the Everglades are on the edge of extinction from the snakes.