Would you medicate this horse?

[Michen]

Horse diagnosed with spavin both hocks but only really noticeable in one. Had tildren and steroids and came sound (previously was very slightly lame in straight line). 7 months Later just had vet check. About 2/3 tenth lame post flexion on one hind but it trots out about half way through the 100 metre or so trot up and goes sound.

Horse has been stabled for 3 days nearly but was walked for 30 mins before vet check. (sorry have edited to add to this, has been stabled but regularly walked both ends of the day- not just on this one occasion!)

Feels good etc, had one bad day a few weeks ago but seemed to be related to a sore neck that physio found. Has continued to feel best he ever has.

Vet says up to me but personally he wouldn’t re do tildren or steroids due to such a minor lameness that does trot out quite quickly. He’s coming back in a week as I want an old injury scanned (not because it needs it but I want to start competition fitness work so just being paranoid) so will check any lameness again then as well.

Although he was walked before I am conscious it’s not been above freezing for days and he’s not been turned out.

Would you treat this with tildren/steroids again or not? No insurance money but happy to foot the £1,000 if it’s a good idea, just conscious jabbing them more than necessary isn’t. Maybe just tildren? I am also conscious that post treatment he was 100% sound including after flexion so he has gone backwards on that front albiet maybe weather and turnout haven’t helped.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Hm. If the vet is out again next week, I would be tempted to do a flexion again. Especially I'd circumstances re turnout and temperature have changed. Just to make sure the results are the same...or not. Then I would do some thinking based on that.

 

[Michen]

I think it would be safe to assume they will be the same or if not better.. so guess I’m asking advice on if they were “similar”.

argh! ?

Hm. If the vet is out again next week, I would be tempted to do a flexion again. Especially I'd circumstances re turnout and temperature have changed. Just to make sure the results are the same...or not. Then I would do some thinking based on that.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I think it would be safe to assume they will be the same or if not better.. so guess I’m asking advice on if they were “similar”.

argh! ?

Ah yeah, ok ? I would say if that's his only "symptom" then I would hold off on medicating but pay close attention to any changes in his performance or demeanor.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I think most horses would be stiff if they have been stood in for most of the time for 3 days. The weather is forecast to be a lot warmer/milder next week, so I would ask the vet to examine again next week, after the horse has had more turnout.

 

[Michen]

I think most horses would be stiff if they have been stood in for most of the time for 3 days. The weather is forecast to be a lot warmer/milder next week, so I would ask the vet to examine again next week, after the horse has had more turnout.

He has been in but has had probably about two hours of movement a day, and he had literally just had a decent walk before the trot up so I wasn’t sure if I was thinking the fact he’d been in could be of relevance was because I was being blindly hopeful ?

 

[milliepops]

it's my understanding that tildren has a longish acting effect? and is not without risk so I don't think I'd want to repeat if vet is not suggesting it.

 

[Michen]

I guess it’s quite good that even though he has been in (albiet walked) he’s still looking good. I know plenty of horses aren’t sound post flexion full stop and don’t even trot it out, but a 100% sound would have been nice I guess! Will see what next week brings.

 

[Nicnac]

Post next examination if still "off" I'd personally have hocks injected with HA/steroids and leave the Tildren for 12 months so another 6 months. But most horses will be a bit hoppy after flexion especially after standing in and this weather combined with previous issues so, in short, nah I wouldn't bother.

 

[Michen]

it's my understanding that tildren has a longish acting effect? and is not without risk so I don't think I'd want to repeat if vet is not suggesting it.

I think it’s variable. I know quite a few horses who have it twice yearly. It seemed to be the tildren more than the steroids that had the effect on him, I only did it as the steroids didn’t bring him 100% sound.

 

[Michen]

Post next examination if still "off" I'd personally have hocks injected with HA/steroids and leave the Tildren for 12 months so another 6 months. But most horses will be a bit hoppy after flexion especially after standing in and this weather combined with previous issues so, in short, nah I wouldn't bother.

sorry should have said in original post but just explained above. It did seem to be the tildren that worked last time (we did steroids first and got an improvement but only minor ie only lame post flexion) so did tildren 3 or so weeks later which bought him 100% sound. I guess it was likely the Combo though, maybe the steroids took time to work.

It’s tricky because it’s always been so mild so there’s not much of significance to go on. But he feels great.

 

[ITPersonnage]

Agree with MP, my understanding of tildren is that it acts over several weeks so I wouldn't if he were mine, also steroids I would be quite conservative over. Cross posted ! I thought tildren acted by remodelling the bone so I'd expect at least a few weeks before any effect ? But maybe you're right, the two treatments together got him sound

 

[Michen]

In hindsight he might feel great because for the first time in 4 years I’m actually doing school work on a regular basis ??

 

[ycbm]

I have always been told that the more often you do steroid injections the quicker the next lot will be needed. On that basis I would not do steroids yet on such a minor lameness.

I know zilch about tildren, sorry.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I personally wouldn't either. As it trots out pretty quickly I would wait until it's warmer and he has more turnout then re-evaluate. I think if there is any issue that he would let you know in his demeanour/ridden work/attitude towards being ridden.

 

[ihatework]

I’d probably arthramid at some point, but I’d wait a bit until he is out and about.

 

[Abi90]

I wouldn’t do it unless needs it. You can only medicate so many times.

My approach with my mare will to only medicate as and when she needs it. The vet suggested medicating every 6 months whether she was lame or not. She’s only 8, not sure I want to effectively use up the opportunity when she’s sound. She’s still sound a year on so we shall wait until we need it.

 

[Michen]

Thanks guys. That puts my mind at rest. I'm going to take him (and my other bloody horse who now needs his liver looking at) into the vets next friday for a scan and will re assess him then but unless he's more lame (unlikely I'd have thought) I will crack on for now. He feels really good, really happy and ready to make his return to a more fun life once covid lifts.

 

[spotty_pony]

I wouldn't. I'd wait to see a more consistent lameness before doing any more treatment.

 

[mavandkaz]

From what I read about tildren when deciding whether to use it on Sham, it's not something I would use regularly.
Certainly wouldn't be planning on repeat use. I've thought of it as being a one off treatment, with possibly using again in a few years if really needed.
It should act over several weeks/months. And the results should be fairly long term. Also has less affect if used more.
It fell out of fashion due to the effect it has on the kidneys, and repeat use resulted in kidney damage and even failure.
(Stand to be corrected. But it's not nice stuff)
Sorry no help on hock issues.
Definitely a good shout to reassess him. We've gone from wet to frozen, to wet and now frozen again. Will no doubt have had an affect.

 

[atropa]

I wouldn't go down the medication route until your feel you really need it. I declined jabs for my mare when she was diagnosed with navicular at 15. She's now 19 and in general feels the best she ever has with careful shoeing and a decent joint supplement, and it kinda comforts me that I could still go down the medication route if she declines, if that makes sense?