Would you pay £8k for this?????

I would never pay for the horses colour. To me the colour is a bonus if i like everything else about the horse.
I don't actually like palomino's. I never realised until now a palomino would be at the bottom of my list.
I would never pay that amount for a horse as it would have to be a top performer which i do not require from a horse and it would be wasted.
 
I know what you're saying Sirena re conformation but my point was that the conformation (from what i can see) is by no means horrendous and wouldn't necessarily put me off considering those are pictures and not always brilliant at showing conformation off well.

Any horse may or may not get problems down the line. My own horse certainly does not have 'perfect' conformation by any means (upright shoulder, upright pasterns, fairly long back) by at 19 yo and without having suffered so far I am not always convinced just because we feel a horse doesn't fit what we like to see that there's necessarily anything wrong with it (if you catch my drift).

I have certainly seen worse and I suspect many people's horses on here who are off unsound either short term or permanently may well have better conformation than that horse. Doesn't mean a horse with fantastic conformation will stay sounder.

As said, I don't see anything that bad about the horse in question but again no I wouldn't part with £8000 for any animal but other people will. To some £8000 may be the equivalent of my £1000 and they wouldn't think anything of it. I think he's a lovely colour and from the brief look I had at the pics, I like his face! :-)
 
Looks like it may have some Luso in it.
The PRe's registered or not, are known for poor hind leg conformation and weakness, and lack of looseness in their backs.
There are a million Pre's that are unregistered here, even registered horses from SOME sources are not a guarantee of pure pre as the stud book was Open before, and despite it being closed now, you find many a anglo arab, hano etc stallion hidden in the corner of the yeguadas......
The prices here are rock bottom due to the crisis so this is a stupid price and even from andalucia in a top class transporter's lorry you are only talking about 1000 pounds travel expenses (roughly).
They love to teach the horses spanish walk, bowing and leaping about , as it is very popular in the german market, so this is also very common.
Due the the general opinion in spain that there is a crisis in the breeding, breed type, conformation etc etc of pre's I would be extremely careful about what I was looking at.
There are some super spanish sportshorses being bred down here and finally the idea that the horses have to be more functional than pretty, seems to be seeping through to the breeders. How they will handle all this is remains to be seen, but hopefully it will be flexible enough to both improve and conserve the breed. The separate classification of the sportshorse is helping, CDE but everyone is wondering where the breeders go from here.
I the competitive world down here Pre's are still used in classical dressage, high school, demonstrations, hence the tricks etc, but most dressage riders are now moving to the ubiquitous warmblood. Price is also an issue in this, good Pre's are hard to find and too expensive.
Unlike the Luso the Pre is not used here as a jumping, event etc horse, the Portugese seem to have bred more for function than beauty.
Most sales here of pre go abroad, and the really good ones are a hell of a lot more money than any of these.
 
I'm a whole heartedly with mik here. I've seen so many sub-standard 'PREs' for sale over here it is untrue - my friend has a mare who he prodly informed me was a 'media-carta' (half papered) PRE God knows what the other half is if that is true!

I am biased though as I loathe the look of even top quality PRE's.
 
Chico Mio said:
I'm a whole heartedly with mik here. I've seen so many sub-standard 'PREs' for sale over here it is untrue - my friend has a mare who he prodly informed me was a 'media-carta' (half papered) PRE God knows what the other half is if that is true!

I am biased though as I loathe the look of even top quality PRE's.
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It is a right muddle over here, they breed from anything in some areas, almost nothing is gelded and the mares are not really ridden, just used as breeding, so heaven knows what you are getting most of the time.
 
Chico Mio said:
I'm a whole heartedly with mik here. I've seen so many sub-standard 'PREs' for sale over here it is untrue - my friend has a mare who he prodly informed me was a 'media-carta' (half papered) PRE God knows what the other half is if that is true!

I am biased though as I loathe the look of even top quality PRE's.
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This is just the point I am trying to raise, this particular horse is very substandard and some mug somewhere will pay lots of money just because it is a pretty colour! There are more and more of them coming onto the UK market because of the situation in Spain and more and more people are being taken in.

I will forgive you your loathing of PREs, if we were all the same what a boring world we would live in :p;)
 
mik said:
It is a right muddle over here, they breed from anything in some areas, almost nothing is gelded and the mares are not really ridden, just used as breeding, so heaven knows what you are getting most of the time.
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Agree with you wholeheartedly! It has always been a minefield, now it is even worse, yet there are still people who feel that they can go over to Spain and get a bargain then they come back with an 'Andalusian', which can be any bloody breeding, hell - it could be a donkey fgs!

These horses are now appearing on the market over here and unsuspecting buyers are paying top whack for a spanish throwout!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mik View Post
It is a right muddle over here, they breed from anything in some areas, almost nothing is gelded and the mares are not really ridden, just used as breeding, so heaven knows what you are getting most of the time.
Agree with you wholeheartedly! It has always been a minefield, now it is even worse, yet there are still people who feel that they can go over to Spain and get a bargain then they come back with an 'Andalusian', which can be any bloody breeding, hell - it could be a donkey fgs!

These horses are now appearing on the market over here and unsuspecting buyers are paying top whack for a spanish throwout!



Personally Im more worried about English dealers buying dross and then selling for the same average prices ive been seeing in adverts across England. Ive seen countless horses for that same £8000 price bracket, that look no different to the 1500 euro bracketted horses in the spanish trade papers.
 
I know nothing of this breed, but I wouldn't pay that money for anything without a competition record!

I am also upset that a horse of five is doing such advanced work, its either been broken in too early or pushed too far too fast which doesn't bode well for the future.
 
Sheri said:
I know nothing of this breed, but I wouldn't pay that money for anything without a competition record!

I am also upset that a horse of five is doing such advanced work, its either been broken in too early or pushed too far too fast which doesn't bode well for the future.
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Nail on the head.
The competitions here are not so hot, there are very few local shows and the level is generally poor unless you are near Madrid, Barcelona or Santander : even at levels between 'zones'. Generally they can all do passage, and piaffe at 4yrs old (if you read the spanish adverts in the local press) and are all ridden in a pelham with one rein on the curb.
Luckily it IS improving slowly. There is a move to become more professional especially with the riders who study with external trainers. But they want WBs.....
 
Personally these horses wouldn't interest me - oooh, I could get him to kneel when I mounted, that would be handy :D I have known 2 Andalusian's, who both have soundness issues. They seem to be on box rest more than any other horse on the yard.
 
mik said:
Nail on the head.
The competitions here are not so hot, there are very few local shows and the level is generally poor unless you are near Madrid, Barcelona or Santander : even at levels between 'zones'. Generally they can all do passage, and piaffe at 4yrs old (if you read the spanish adverts in the local press) and are all ridden in a pelham with one rein on the curb.
Luckily it IS improving slowly. There is a move to become more professional especially with the riders who study with external trainers. But they want WBs.....
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Indeed. Maybe a bit of a generalisation, but anyone over here who wants a PRE or a Hispano (as 'Andalusians' are called over here) want a flash looking, un cut horse that can ponce about on it's overgrown, badly shod feet at the local feria, foaming at the mouth from its babaric bit/rein combo, in an ill fiting vaquero saddle while they make it into a nervous wreck in the name of machismo.

We have a showjumping vet friend up here, Spanish through and through and as a semi professional, all his horses are WBs.
 
Chico Mio said:
Indeed. Maybe a bit of a generalisation, but anyone over here who wants a PRE or a Hispano (as 'Andalusians' are called over here) want a flash looking, un cut horse that can ponce about on it's overgrown, badly shod feet at the local feria, foaming at the mouth from its babaric bit/rein combo, in an ill fiting vaquero saddle while they make it into a nervous wreck in the name of machismo.

We have a showjumping vet friend up here, Spanish through and through and as a semi professional, all his horses are WBs.
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Hispanos are actually a breed apart and the CRIA gave it it's own stud book ANNCE have continued the stud book and Hispanos have to be graded just like PREs, they can also go for the Calificado grading, just like PREs.

There are many reputable studs in Spain who take great care within their breeding programmes, some are now breeding for the dressage market and PREs are beginning to make their mark over here in that area, I am not surprised by your showjumping vet - that is not a sport that PREs generally excel but the spanish olympic dressage team did not do badly with their PREs.

I think that those 'Andalusian' horses that you see poncing about at the Ferias are a different animal to the genuine PRE and Hispano, as are those riders on one curb rein. You only have to go to SICAB or Jerez to see a very very different horse/rider.

However, I digress, this post was meant to be a warning to the hapless buyers out there to do their research before buying.
 
No I wouldnt, he's probably nice sort but I'm not stuck on his confo for that price, even with the costs of importing him over, I wouldnt buy him anyway, could be someones dream horse though.
 
Never knew you could get Pally Andie's! he is lovely and looks talented but I wouldn't pay that.
 
SICAB is an interesting place where amongst other things they show the horses charging around on very small circles for the judge to assess their movement but the judging is mainly morphological and who you know. This is also being termed a place where you can see the TRIUMPH OF FORM OVER FUNCTION, not my words...

The olympic team here are riding PRE's (I think one is a Luso) but are in a transitional state. They are sill getting around the 68-70 marks, except Beatrix who is in germany now with the young horse Delgado (not PRE) who I love.
The junior spanish team will one day knock your socks off, but they are training outside of spain a lot and have central european horses.
Look up the Barbancon lassies on eurodressage.

At the last local dressage show here in level 4 there were 3 entries, one correct, two in pelhams with only one rein (curb chain intact). There is still a LOT of work to do here especially at the base level to get trainers who have enough knowledge to train correctly all the way up the levels..
 
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Forgot, Jodi Domingo is riding a KWPN and will be in the team if he sorts out the walk and passage a bit more.
 
mik said:
At the last local dressage show here in level 4 there were 3 entries, one correct, two in pelhams with only one rein (curb chain intact). There is still a LOT of work to do here especially at the base level to get trainers who have enough knowledge to train correctly all the way up the levels..
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Oh I agree, at the moment I would not dream of buying a horse ready backed from Spain! I also ride and compete mares which used to be more unusual, as everyone wanted stallions! The reputable studs are now realising that there is a market for nice ridden mares, they are also using more classical (hate that word!) methods so it is slowly improving.

I have lost count of the times people with spanish backed horses say "Oh my trainer says he will do better at the higher levels", total rubbish imho, it is the lack of correct basic training that is the problem, not that the horse is too collected for lower level, poor things have not learnt to go forwards properly - makes me pull my hair out!
 
I wouldn't buy that one of theirs, but looked through the videos and liked this one-
http://www.youtube.com/clmcoles#p/u/16/CnXkUjs8sLg

I like the way PRE's ride, short coupled, bouncy and a lot of fun. I've promised myself one for when I retire to go terrorize the country side on. But that's not for a good few years yet so I'll stick with my warmbloods till then! I think that a lot of the spanish horses have too much knee action, which I don't like. And esp. after seeing a PRE stallion at BSJA a few weeks ago esp. haven't seen anything that I like with them over a fence.
 
Misinterpreted said:
Personally these horses wouldn't interest me - oooh, I could get him to kneel when I mounted, that would be handy :D I have known 2 Andalusian's, who both have soundness issues. They seem to be on box rest more than any other horse on the yard.
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You must have come across the exception there I'm afraid. I have a Bay (yes its a pretty colour) and he's the toughest, soundest horse I have ever come across. He hasnt had shoes on for 18 months now and goes well on all terrain. He completed his first one day event on sunday in the soaring heat and rock solid ground with no ill effects whatsovever. His conformation is spot on which helps him.

Back to the original post****** wouldnt touch it with a bargepole, conformation is awful. For a horse of that colour to be allowed out of Spain, if it was any bit decent it would be 10 times the amount. The Spanish breeders dont always let the good ones out of the country unless you pay a fortune! I bought mine from an importer and kept him at her yard for some time so I learnt quite a bit. She would go to Spain, select say 20 horses and after the x rays and vetting she would end up with 5 horses fit to export.

One horse (a red bay) came over for her to sell, he was five years old and could do piaffe and passage which he had apparently learnt in 5 months, the owner wanted £15,000 pounds for this poor little fella. His brain was frazzled and all he could do was panic, he was unable to anything other than hack on a long rein. When you patted him he wanted to do Spanish walk. His price eventually went down to £5000 but in the end he ended up going back to Spain.

I wouldnt buy any thing that supposedly could do tricks and all the fancy stuff the Spanish seem to think is fabulous, whatever colour it was, chances are its knackered or a headcase!
 
I am really glad you guys are warning people and have your heads firmly screwed on. The more people understand the market... as it is here the more the good guys here can work to improve the breed.
 
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