Dressage Would you pay €600k for a 3 year old gelding?

[Abacus]

I’m not going to comment on his looks, I don’t think I’m qualified.

At this sort of price it isn’t about a horse, it’s about money. Whoever has bought him believes that in some way he will make a return. Probably because with 2 years training, and before something breaks, he’ll go for more. Either that, or - like in racing - they are gambling on the chance of owning the next big thing. And in that case even being a gelding isn’t a problem; they could clone him (can you do that in dressage? Or just to be able to breed?).

They certainly didn’t buy him for a pretty face.

 

[twiggy2]

No I wouldn't and I am sure I could ride half of any of them but it doesn't stop we wanting to shout SLOW DOWN and LOOK UP to each of the riders in the few videos I have looked at on there.
It looks like every animal is being pushed off balance and out of rhythm and it grinds my gears, give the poor beasts a chance.

 

[TheMule]

It makes me wince seeing such a big, weak young horse being ridden at all, let alone like that.
A lot of these over-inflated prices are done for show, it's not real. I don’t doubt the horse is worth a lot on his ability in his gaits, but I'm not sure it's 600k worth

 

[splashgirl45]

If anyone saw Carl Hester’s talk about what to look for in a young horse I doubt he would have been interested in that horse . He looks for a good walk and good canter and says the trot can be improved . The only one of those horses I liked x almost 16.1 and didn’t have unnatural front leg movement but her feet looked a bit flat to me so not the best example of a horse to buy

 

[palo1]

I think this kind of breeding and horse buying is a bit like Haute Couture! Unless you are really part of that culture it is hard to see what the 'point' is. I like the horse though he looks very weak and undeveloped, naturally and with expectedly exaggerated movement. The riding is a bit disappointing for me as it looks like hard work which doesn't really reflect well on the horse but I know very little about this level of dressage horse breeding. I too would like to see the rider in less of a 'push' position, and with their head up; that slouched, leaning back dressage riding 'look' which some riders adopt is pretty unappealing. But they are not trying to appeal to folks like me of course so I feel really unqualified to comment at all. But is interesting to see all the same. This horse, that kind of riding, doesn't inspire me one bit. I guess I should be thankful for that!!

 

[humblepie]

I struggle more with seeing horses being ridden in that way with that movement at a young age rather than a young racehorse being worked in a straight line or gallop with big corners but everyone to their own. Not the answer to your question which I can't answer as it is so far removed from my reality!

 

[Goldenstar]

I thought the riding was good body position is very difficult to maintain on the very uphill horse especially when young she was showing the horse off for the video so they wanted his step at the most extreme .He’s tall short ish in the back and narrow not easy to sit and look elegant on at all
The over bending is linked to the weakness and the rider was very good at offering hand after the half halt .
They won’t be working him like that most of the time it was for the sale, a means to an end , it’s a business .

 

[QuantockHills]

He's nearly 17.2hh at 3 years old and hypermobile with stacked feet. Good luck trying to keep that sound to GP.
.

I didn't even sit on mine till he was 4.... why cant people wait for them to finish growing!

 

[Equi]

As the owner of a very short backed but tall horse I know I wouldn’t get on well riding this animal. He doesn’t look comfortable at all.

 

[Birker2020]

A gelding 3 year old son of Escamilio just sold for near €600k.

I just can't wrap my head around paying that much for a horse, let alone a 3 year old (who may not make it to competition) and then even less a gelding so no breeding back up if it does go wrong.

Here is his video if anyone is interested.

https://onlineauction.westfalenpfer...tion-2022-dressage-horses-91/lots/embolo-2466

Its assessing potential which I have always thought is a very subjective word anyway.

 

[meleeka]

Nope.

Even if that sort of money was spare change, I wouldn’t buy it for the same reason I wouldn’t buy some normal horses that have ‘potential’. It’s ridiculous to put a price on what might happen in the future (even if you can keep it sound until then). If it were a mare or stallion you could at least buy the bloodline.

 

[palo1]

I thought the riding was good body position is very difficult to maintain on the very uphill horse especially when young she was showing the horse off for the video so they wanted his step at the most extreme .He’s tall short ish in the back and narrow not easy to sit and look elegant on at all
The over bending is linked to the weakness and the rider was very good at offering hand after the half halt .
They won’t be working him like that most of the time it was for the sale, a means to an end , it’s a business .

I agree with this - rider's leg is quite enviable but because of the horse's movement the whole picture, to me, who knows very little lol, looks 'unstable' and a bit kind of 'reactive'. I can see that it is hard for the rider but imo that really doesn't enhance the horse. I have a tall, narrow, short backed horse and they are much less easy to 'look good' on but I only paid tuppence ha'penny for him! 600k for a gelding is for the birds in my world hahahahaha!!

 

[ElectricChampagne]

Thought just struck me. Sure if he was any good as a gelding at 600k and proves himself as he gets older, sure what's another 100k or so to have him cloned and keep the resulting colt entire and use him to breed from?

 

[spacefaer]

Thought just struck me. Sure if he was any good as a gelding at 600k and proves himself as he gets older, sure what's another 100k or so to have him cloned and keep the resulting colt entire and use him to breed from?

Or just buy his full brother or sister. The current clones don't seem to be showing as much ability as the originals

The

 

[shortstuff99]

He has gone to Benjamin Werndl to ride so let's see what happens

 

[J&S]

The poor chap in the video couldn't sit the trot or the canter either! He probably has whiplash now.

This was rather noticeable!

 

[nikkimariet]

Those that have the money will spend it as they wish. An enviable circumstance.

I like the bloodlines it has to be said.

 

[Goldenstar]

He has gone to Benjamin Werndl to ride so let's see what happens

Yes it be interesting .
He is tall and and has a great position so should withstand the forces on top there well .
Hope it’s a great journey for everybody .

 

[j1ffy]

I've just watched the second video 'Training Video', which is a lot less extreme than the first (in which I thought he looked very weird - the 'dressage German Shepherd').

He looks like the sweetest horse, who has no idea how big his paces are and just wants to please. He's keen to stretch forwards / down so clearly his basic training hasn't all been 'up'. He's got such a kind face and looks so gangly - I want to give him a big smutchy kiss and an apple.

But no, I wouldn't buy him and certainly wouldn't pay 600 euros!!

 

[shortstuff99]

Yes it be interesting .
He is tall and and has a great position so should withstand the forces on top there well .
Hope it’s a great journey for everybody .

Yes I like Werndls riding so think he could do a good job of it!

 

[Goldenstar]

I agree with this - rider's leg is quite enviable but because of the horse's movement the whole picture, to me, who knows very little lol, looks 'unstable' and a bit kind of 'reactive'. I can see that it is hard for the rider but imo that really doesn't enhance the horse. I have a tall, narrow, short backed horse and they are much less easy to 'look good' on but I only paid tuppence ha'penny for him! 600k for a gelding is for the birds in my world hahahahaha!!

I think the instability you see is because the rider is not blocking the horse with their body they are letting the horse move through its whole frame .

It’s skilled handling of a young big moving weak horse at the very beginning of its training .

 

[ester]

Or just buy his full brother or sister. The current clones don't seem to be showing as much ability as the originals

The

Their own performance or that of their progeny?

 

[ycbm]

But no, I wouldn't buy him and certainly wouldn't pay 600 euros!!

I would, bargain at that price ?

 

[j1ffy]

I would, bargain at that price ?

D'oh - I can't even blame autocorrect for that one!

 

[Cortez]

The prices paid for young, extremely well bred dressage horses at auction in Germany are really only comparable to the elite Thoroughbred yearling sales. Let's face it, even if any of us had that kind of dosh, I highly doubt that 99.9% of us would be able to ride any of them - or want to. The auction riders are supremely skilled in showing off these babies and getting them to perform to their utmost, but believe me that is NOT how they will be prepared for their future careers.

P.S. Not only would I not pay €600,000 for any horse, I wouldn't take one of those specialist athletes as a gift; faaaar too much work. I had to laugh at someone's comment about them not being comfortable to ride: that's not remotely the purpose of that kind of movement

 

[AandK]

I wouldn't even if I had the money, I'd have no chance of being able to ride a horse with movement like that!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

You are essentially gambling a lot of money in what MIGHT be. Same with the yearling TB sales. You are buying the potential the piece of paper says the horse has. You are not guaranteeing you have a super star you are just increasing your chances of having one.

I rode a horse at work many years ago who cost 4.5million as a yearling. He was by Sadler's Wells out of an Oaks winning mare. He should have been the Galileo of his year. He went to Ballydoyle, the best training you can get. In his first ever race he finished 2nd by a nose at Royal Ascot. That is the closest he ever came to winning a race. At the end of his 3yo year he went to Jonjo O'Neil's to go jumping. He still didn't win. He was sold in yard then that owner sent him to Semple's. From Semple's he came to us. And from us he went to a Point to Point/hunt home. And he never won a single race in his life. But as a yearling his pedigree piece of paper said he would won lots of good races then earn a fortune at stud. That piece of paper was wrong.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

You are essentially gambling a lot of money in what MIGHT be. Same with the yearling TB sales. You are buying the potential the piece of paper says the horse has. You are not guaranteeing you have a super star you are just increasing your chances of having one.

I rode a horse at work many years ago who cost 4.5million as a yearling. He was by Sadler's Wells out of an Oaks winning mare. He should have been the Galileo of his year. He went to Ballydoyle, the best training you can get. In his first ever race he finished 2nd by a nose at Royal Ascot. That is the closest he ever came to winning a race. At the end of his 3yo year he went to Jonjo O'Neil's to go jumping. He still didn't win. He was sold in yard then that owner sent him to Semple's. From Semple's he came to us. And from us he went to a Point to Point/hunt home. And he never won a single race in his life. But as a yearling his pedigree piece of paper said he would won lots of good races then earn a fortune at stud. That piece of paper was wrong.

I had a very pretty 4 yr old gelding as part of a job lot. He went through the yearling sales at just under 550,000 guineas in 92, grandson of Royal Palace and v good lines.
He refused to start as a 2 yr old, created havoc if not led up 1st (apparently). Still same attitude as a 3 yr old. Gelded and shuffled off...
I paid a grand for 3 as a job lot from a trainers clear out, he was one of them.
He had a lovely temperament on the ground, fab on the yard and to do anything with. V pretty to look at and actually had clean legs and moved straight.
Except..... if he wasn't 1st, then he was vertical, very vertical. A very safe hack, my mother even cheerfully piloted him 2 or 3 times a week out in the woods.
Careful handling got him out and about, I even got him out in a hack class by carefully cutting away across the ring.
He ended up going to a lovely lady for dressage in a private home who did very well with him, it was just a case of managing warm up. He stayed with her till he was pts at 29!

 

[palo1]

I think the instability you see is because the rider is not blocking the horse with their body they are letting the horse move through its whole frame .

It’s skilled handling of a young big moving weak horse at the very beginning of its training .

Yes, I get that and that is a very useful way of looking at the ridden picture. It may be very skilled and certainly is far better to allow the horse to move than not. From a purchaser's point of view it is helpful and that is clearly what matters. As for breeding...well, it certainly helps but if breeding was the secret to success many, many more horses would fulfill that magical 'potential'

 

[fetlock]

I think the instability you see is because the rider is not blocking the horse with their body they are letting the horse move through its whole frame .

It’s skilled handling of a young big moving weak horse at the very beginning of its training .

When I watched the video the first time I thought oh dear, re the rider.

But when I watched a second time, I would agree with you. They were - or so I thought anyway- more out of the saddle than in much of the time - and deliberately so, not putting undue strain on the young horse's back. Even in the brief bout of sitting trot we saw, though why sitting trot on a 3 year old, featured at all is another matter.