Dressage Would you pay €600k for a 3 year old gelding?

[Cortez]

When I watched the video the first time I thought oh dear, re the rider.

But when I watched a second time, I would agree with you. They were - or so I thought anyway- more out of the saddle than in much of the time - and deliberately so, not putting undue strain on the young horse's back. Even in the brief bout of sitting trot we saw, though why sitting trot on a 3 year old, featured at all is another matter.

The rider sat the trot only when the horse was offering it's back. Perhaps many on here don't quite realise the supreme skill required to ride these young horses and showcase their budding attributes. I spent 6 months at a kürung and auction preparation stables when I was just starting out and possibly learned more there about how to let horses carry themselves than anywhere else.

 

[AdorableAlice]

I wonder if any of us will remember him in a decades time when he is a world class competition horse.

600k elite bred horse or £60 Bob the Cob can go wrong of course but that horse will be cared for and produced with one aim, and that goal will take at least 10 years to achieve. Will he lead the life we like for our horses ? I doubt it, especially if he remains in Germany. His feet are alarming unless the photographs are misleading.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I had my 18.3hh Westphalian, complete with Westphalian brand, PTS last year as a 12yo with several degenerative bone conditions evident from the knee down including the feet. We hadn't even begun to look any higher or at his soft tissues which were also causing futher acute lameness at that time. He had better feet and hind leg conformation than this horse I personally think, but was a bit weird conformationally as a complete picture.

He was trained/competing at advanced medium as a 5/6yo (not with me I hasten to add) and had really amazing movement, not as huge as this youngster but very big and floaty; this level is where he peaked. He was purchased as an 9yo from a dealer for £1000 after recurrent lameness issues, having been bought for big bucks as a youngster.

I imagine that is very much how this gelding's story will go.

 

[ycbm]

They are GP at 8 these days, only 5 years away.

 

[Cortez]

Extremely large/tall horses are more likely to go wrong unfortunately, no matter what their work. I had a 19h broodmare under my care many years ago, unbroken because she'd never managed to be sound enough to even attempt to ride. She was also very difficult to get in foal (the reason I was looking after her). I wouldn't personally have bred from her, but not my call. She was put down at 9 with multiple lamenesses.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

They absolutely are which is why I was surprised to see a horse this price being so tall. It's such a shame as to me, nothing quite beats the feeling of having lots of horse around you and that sheer power - I just love the bigguns. But other than the couple of pity buys I have had thus far, I won't be venturing that big again.. 17.2hh matured would be my limit, probably sub 17hh if I find one that fits me well as I am super long in the leg.

 

[Goldenstar]

The training is better the horses are more bred for purpose thats why they come through quicker it’s also a thing that championships like Olympics favour the younger horses because the strain of an Olympic format championship is huge and the younger horses cope better .

 

[HashRouge]

Oh I think he looks like such a sweety! Which I appreciate is not what they're spending 600k on, but he does look adorable. I'll be interested to see what he looks like when he's fully mature, as he's all legs at the moment.

 

[palo1]

The rider sat the trot only when the horse was offering it's back. Perhaps many on here don't quite realise the supreme skill required to ride these young horses and showcase their budding attributes. I spent 6 months at a kürung and auction preparation stables when I was just starting out and possibly learned more there about how to let horses carry themselves than anywhere else.

Yes. It is definitely not something that is taught or even really discussed in the UK. There is a set of sort of established 'principles' and many, many people here either never start a youngster, potentially don't do that very well or don't ever know how to enable a young horse's potential in the way that elite horses may experience (myself included in that lot). This discussion is both interesting and a bit depressing tbh as it helps to demonstrate the extreme end of the spectrum in terms of money, expectation and preparation. That isn't part of an existing horse culture here but I sort of wish I knew more about it, even though I will never need that information lol. I think the horse is beautiful and I hope he has great care in his life. I imagine that he may well be rather fragile but at least he has the breeding and potential to be worth being very well looked after!

 

[palo1]

They absolutely are which is why I was surprised to see a horse this price being so tall. It's such a shame as to me, nothing quite beats the feeling of having lots of horse around you and that sheer power - I just love the bigguns. But other than the couple of pity buys I have had thus far, I won't be venturing that big again.. 17.2hh matured would be my limit, probably sub 17hh if I find one that fits me well as I am super long in the leg.

I think there is a good deal of research to suggest that the 'optimum' size for a horse in terms of both limb and organ capacity for hard work is only about 15.2! That is a long way from what many people these days like to ride/like to see, especially in dressage.

 

[splashgirl45]

I love the smaller chunkier horses, not gypsy cob types but the type in between tb and cob for a general riding club horse and 15 to 15.2 would be the size I would prefer.. I am 5ft 5 and the biggest I have owned was 16.1 , and all of mine have been sound well into their 20’s but as I only did riding club level that may be why. My last horse was a warm blood cross who show jumped until she was 10 then I bought her cheaply as she had a fall and didn’t want to jump anymore. Lost her at 25 to cushings

 

[Cortez]

15.2h is the ideal size for me and the job I used to have my horses for, but doesn’t suit the mainstream horse sports of today. For a leisure horse it would be optimal for most riders IMO, but many people like big horses.

 

[tristar]

not surprised some people think it looks odd, its only blxxdy 3 yrs old!

if fact without the tack it looks 2 years old

would i pay that for a horse, yes, if i really liked it, for a gelding yes if it as a fabulous ride.

as for sitting trot on that , well i could weep.

would i swap our rescue cob for that, what !!!! NO, woul d i sell him no, he is much prettier

horses and money, some people have horses that will never be sold however much is offered

its all a gamble, buying a risk, a chance to pick the next champion for some

 

[Orangehorse]

15.2h is the ideal size for me and the job I used to have my horses for, but doesn’t suit the mainstream horse sports of today. For a leisure horse it would be optimal for most riders IMO, but many people like big horses.

15.2 is the optimum size for a horse, anything larger is liable to get soundness issues. Reminds me of a story in a very old book I have, written by a vet that was in WWI (so had many horses through his hands, working horses, polo ponies, hunters). He said that people will remember a hunter they had that stayed sound for years, could jump, etc. etc. and finish with "pity it was only 15.2" but that was why it had such a long working life.

 

[Orangehorse]

I can't understand why dressage horses make so much money. If you paid that for a racehorse there is a chance that it might win some prize money, but for a dressage horse? Only glory.

 

[Cortez]

I can't understand why dressage horses make so much money. If you paid that for a racehorse there is a chance that it might win some prize money, but for a dressage horse? Only glory.

"Only" glory? You misunderstand human nature I think....and less than 1% of racehorses actually make money. It's not about the monetary return. Dressage horses are expensive because they are the playthings of the extremely rich, especially in continental Europe.

 

[tristar]

its buying a lotto ticket to some, a gamble, fun, and a chance to see your own horse at the olympics

 

[Goldenstar]

Yeh it’s like a club for the very rich a safe space if you like to enjoy your wealth in a elegant way
Nothing sanitises new money better than the horse and in Europe dressage horse ownership is big thing the Patron system is much stronger in Europe than here.
And it’s a business for those who run the system it’s a strange world but then many peoples reality is strange to others

 

[tristar]

its front legs are so close together, it is so immature, and huge, frankly its a disgrace presenting horse like that under saddle, at that age.

 

[AdorableAlice]

its front legs are so close together, it is so immature, and huge, frankly its a disgrace presenting horse like that under saddle, at that age.

It is not a disgrace, it is a breeder with a business plan that has just grossed 600k, the net value will be considerably less. The value to the shop window of the breeder will be notable.

A Frankel has just been through the ring at 2.8m, another baby with lots of maturing to do. Both horses have been bred for profit and business purposes. These elite horses are not the same as our homebred horses that we leave in the field.

 

[rara007]

If I had money to launder or burn it would be a fun way to do it. But I don’t have much interest in being an owner and clearly I couldn’t ride that! My little (German auction) mare gave me a massive insight into just how skilled these riders are.

 

[sbloom]

It just makes me sad.

 

[tristar]

It just makes me sad.

the same sad as seeing a yearling trotter going full pelt down the road, or a young thoroughbred that still looks like a foal out on the gallops.

 

[tristar]

It is not a disgrace, it is a breeder with a business plan that has just grossed 600k, the net value will be considerably less. The value to the shop window of the breeder will be notable.

A Frankel has just been through the ring at 2.8m, another baby with lots of maturing to do. Both horses have been bred for profit and business purposes. These elite horses are not the same as our homebred horses that we leave in the field.

yes of course, they just a commodity

 

[only_me]

I thought the rider did a great job in allowing the horse to move naturally. They provided support but there was a lot of give letting the horse carry himself.
He’s weak and gangly, not overfed or muscled. he looks odd as he’s a baby more in the 2y stage than the 3 year stage imo. He also looks relatively happy & relaxed.

New owner will hopefully let him mature for a year in a field, sort his feet out and then do lots of straight work. I’d never have that sort of money though!

Imagine him as a 8-9 year old with the correct muscle and able to support himself!



Some of the others looked awful, one looks like a bus behind the saddle, no shoulder at all!

 

[ycbm]

New owner will hopefully let him mature for a year in a field

A €600k dressage horse in Europe who they want to get to GP by 8 years old? Pigs might fly.
.

 

[Cortez]

A €600k dressage horse in Europe who they want to get to GP by 8 years old? Pigs might fly.
.

I'm not sure why you think a horse being able to perform a GP program by 8 is either unusual or necessarily bad? There is no reason why a sound, talented horse with excellent training shouldn't be capable of that; the normal training progression is 5 years, it's only setbacks that would prolong that. Being COMPETITIVE at the level will usually take much longer of course.

 

[only_me]

A €600k dressage horse in Europe who they want to get to GP by 8 years old? Pigs might fly.
.

Yeah hence the word hopefully lol. What he really needs is a year on a hill but the Pigs really would be flying He can’t quite cope with his own canter in the video!

You never know, they might give him more time if owner is happy. I suppose the other thing is that with pros they are already teaching the horse “correctly” from the start so while us amateurs are slogging away the pro is already stages ahead with a pliable youngster and doesn’t need to bring them out to as many shows on the way up

 

[only_me]

I'm not sure why you think a horse being able to perform a GP program by 8 is either unusual or necessarily bad? There is no reason why a sound, talented horse with excellent training shouldn't be capable of that; the normal training progression is 5 years, it's only setbacks that would prolong that. Being COMPETITIVE at the level will usually take much longer of course.

I think she was talking in relation to my post as in meant that it’s unlikely the horse will be allowed a year to mature out if they want it to be GP by 8!

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I'm not sure why you think a horse being able to perform a GP program by 8 is either unusual or necessarily bad? There is no reason why a sound, talented horse with excellent training shouldn't be capable of that; the normal training progression is 5 years, it's only setbacks that would prolong that. Being COMPETITIVE at the level will usually take much longer of course.

I feel as though the intensity of training required to be adequately strong to school and compete (although not necessarily competitive as you say) at GP at 8yo would render any dressage bred horse unsound before long (and most others, but dressage horses who are often hyper mobile, have huge movement etc), and would certainly cut their career short to quite an extent. The huge turnover of horses in the dressage world seems to support my opinion; unusual it is not, but perhaps things would be better if it were.