Would you PTS a healthy horse

[Seville]

You really are totally insensitive, aren't you? Sorry meant to reply with quote from the schooling whip post

 

[Pearlsasinger]

IME it is much kinder (and safer in this case) to have the horse pts at home. I always use hunt/knackerman, rather than the vet and have the deed done within sight of the other horses. That way they know what has happened to their friend and don't wonder where he went.

 

[coen]

Just for balance the horse is not generally bad with others and although he went for my other gelding this weekend that horse is the newest to our home as for a year and a half it was my gelding and my mare and the two geldings have never been out in the field together.
Previously at livery he has been out in large groups with both mares & geldings without aggression issues.
But he can be exuberant in the field & especially so if haylage ect is put out so I do take the point that people could still get hurt if in the mix of it in the field.
An ultimately this option still has a risk element regardless & a selfishly a stress element!

Thank you for sharing your experiences on pts it doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world and I am certainly giving this real thought.

 

[paddy555]

I have taken on several quite deliberately with the sort of problems you describe simply to give them a good life so I would not PTS. They have all turned out well, ie as pasture pets despite having various mental problems when we started. All were in reasonable physical health but all were screwed up mentally. I am fortunate in that I have my own yard and land, don't let other people around them except OH and neither of us are scared of handling these sort of horses. For most the way forward to give them a good life as a pasture pet has been to find a way round the problem. Eg if the horse cannot be led in I let it walk in of it's own accord. If I feel it is being stabled causing the problem I leave the stable door open so it can wander all night. I work around the horse to find a way for it to cope and for ourselves and the rest of the horses to be safe. Having found a way around the problem so we can cope then I work to find the problem.

I remember taking on one, at 5yo, for the very simple reason that the owner did not have the decency to have it PTS at home. I could understand their view that if they couldn't cope no one else would be able to (which was rubbish) but I really could not get to grips with the fact they insisted the horse travel rather than getting the vet out and putting it to sleep humanely at it's home. For that reason I paid meat money and bought it. That was 17 years ago he is still having a happy life and I would seriously have regretted not giving him a chance.

As for the other horses we always leave a horse overnight after PTS and let the others go and see it if they want, some ignore it, some really want to go and see it, some paw it, and some very seriously grieve for several days before moving on. I feel they understand death far more than having one of their herd/friends disappear.

 

[AmyMay]

I really don't think this Horse needs to be chased with a whip. I would not send mine to someone who thought that was a correct way of riding. I pray you never have a Horse like OP's.

Also the only true cure for a bolter is a bullet. I suspect that you meant to write tanking off.

I am starting to doubt if you are posting to get a rise out of people.

Exactly!

OP, I would have no hesitation to put a dangerous, healthy horse put down.

Please ignore the silly poster pronouncing chasing with a whip to be a solution.

 

[GTRJazz]

I really don't think this Horse needs to be chased with a whip. I would not send mine to someone who thought that was a correct way of riding. I pray you never have a Horse like OP's.

Also the only true cure for a bolter is a bullet. I suspect that you meant to write tanking off.

I am starting to doubt if you are posting to get a rise out of people.

Yes chasing with a whip every time it stops to rear
I did know someone whos horse had a brain tumor and yes it was shot and fed to the hounds but to say this is a cure all is stupid just a lazy easy out option

 

[AmyMay]

but to say this is a cure all is stupid just a lazy easy out option

Bless you.... 🤣🤣🤣

 

[GTRJazz]

Does it not bother you that some unscrupulous dealer could drug the horse or dehydrate it, sell it and some unsuspecting person be hurt or killed? I could not have that on my conscience.

Thats just a scenario I would assume a little common sense was used my conscience would not let me tell someone to put their horse to sleep unless everything had been tried

 

[pippixox]

my friend has taken on numerous semi-feral or dangerous to handle and turned them out in a large field where they live out happily loving life.
however, there are not many people like her. Or with her natural set up which they thrive in.
If i could not realistically keep the horse (who may be physically healthy but is not behaviorally healthy) I would have to either try and find a retirement type livery if affordable and suitable or do the safe thing and PTS rather than hand them on for an unlikely future.

 

[Tiddlypom]

GTRJ, perhaps your conscience could tell you that your ham fisted irrelevant contributions to this thread are less than helpful.

 

[GTRJazz]

GTRJ, perhaps your conscience could tell you that your ham fisted irrelevant contributions to this thread are less than helpful.

Not many facts attached to the thread so all a little irrelevant How old is the horse, what breed, when did the problem start what did the trainer say unsafe to ride? etc etc.
I would assume quite old as spent eight years in a field
yes read the on the ground comments I know horses who have also struck people with their hooves a well know essex cross country trainer has a scar from such a horse that is still going years later

 

[cobgoblin]

Op I think you are making the right decision, hard though it is to do.
Most hunts are very professional about this, there is no need for you to be present but as others have said I would allow the other horses to see the body...... I once made the mistake of not doing this and his long term companion grieved terribly.

I think you will feel very relieved once it is all over.

 

[scats]

There are far worse fates than being PTS and unfortunately, so many horses experience these fates because someone down the line wasn't man enough to make that decision.

OP- no horse is worth being injured or worse. Yes we take risks with horses everyday, but if this horse is as dangerous to handle as you say, it's only a matter of time before you or whoever handles it is going to be very badly hurt. Don't take the risk, life's short enough as it is.

 

[conniegirl]

OP I would PTS a horse like that with no second thoughts, my mother had a horse very much like you described, she tried turning him away in a field and it was all fine untill someone had to go in and deal with an injured horse in the field.
One air ambulance and a life changing injury resulted and the horse was PTS that afternoon.

Personally I would find somewhere the ire could live out happily all year.
So a decent sized field or fields with good company, a more natural way of life.

But I totally understand though if someone can’t provide this and PTS is the only option.

It’s far to dangerous to do that, all horses will have to be handled at some point. See above for what happenes when it goes wrong.

GTRJazz - I don’t understand how you could possibly justify selling on a seriously dangerous horse, horses like the OP’s regularly end up in the hands of bad dealers who dope them etc and life changing injuries/death of rider isn’t the result in a lot of cases. Even if you sell it on with a full declaration of its issues nothing stops the new owner from selling on without declaring the issues and then someone gets seriously hurt. I’ve bought one of these dangerous horses, sold to me as an untouched youngster, in reality it was a bolter who had nearly killed a few people and been sold with a full declaration. Only after it put me in hospital with major injuries (fractured neck) did my mother manage to dig up its past.

 

[ester]

coen, I think I would think about it like this. Having him put down, at home, by the hunt will be relatively easy and stress free for him. I was also one of the people that said about him being happy, I also meant that in a balanced, happy to cope with life without thrashing out sort of way.

From what you have written I would worry that if he were to have an injury in the field you turn him out in that were in anyway catastrophic/needed medical treatment he may become even worse to handle than he is already, and even more of a risk to those around him.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Yes without hesitation. I think it is interesting that the law is very clear about your responsibilities if you have a dangerous dog. You would be considered grossly irresponsible, or even criminal, if you have an out of control dog that injures or threatens to injure someone even if you are at home. PTS in the circumstances you describe is the responsible thing to do. And I agree with others that suggest the horse may be suffering - at least during episodes. Normal, healthy, contented horses do not behave like that.

 

[zaminda]

Some people have no morals or sense. I know of a number of dealers who would take this horse off your hands and sell it without disclosing anything, and probably say the old owner was useless.
Would I pts a healthy horse was the question, and the answer is I couldn't necessarily say. I took one on recently who in the past I would happily have shot myself. I have used the words vile and savage in relation to this horse in the past, however she has never tried to bury you or bolted simply stood up and tried to frighten people. She has been over on the ground and got up as if nothing had happened. That said, she is like a lamb to lead although sometimes doesn't like to be touched, or possibly even looked at!
If a horse was at the point where it was dangerous to even lead or put a headcollar on then I think if everything has been looked at you are at the end of the road.
I'm very wary of behaviourists and people who say they can solve any problem, some horses can't be fixed, and while they can possibly live out in a semi feral herd, there are very few of those around!
Good luck with what you decide, its not an easy journey.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I would.

Just because the horse is healthy in body does not mean it isnt healthy in mind.

A healthy horse to me is one sound in mind and body.

 

[zaminda]

I would.

Just because the horse is healthy in body does not mean it isnt healthy in mind.

A healthy horse to me is one sound in mind and body.

How well put. This is a hobby, its not supposed to be life threatening!

 

[moosea]

I do know a really good trainer that works breaking race horses she sits on and gets someone to chase the horse forward with a schooling whip every time it goes to rear can give you her number if you like.

Fixed one of my horses that bolted and had such a Violent spook three different people broke their hands without actually falling off, one a instructor, and my loaner who was a very good rider gave up after a fall.

He is going really well for us now needs to be kept away from high sugar grass and always ridden in an outline bent to the inside

^^^ This person is an idiot.

Have the horse shot quietly at home.

Speak to the huntsman and let them know in advance that the horse can be unpredictable to handle and that you do not wish to be present.

When my sister and my horse was shot he was so excited that the lorry was there... he must have thought he was going hunting one more time. My last memory of him was him searching the guys pockets for treats, ears pricked.

We chose a paddock that was easily accesable for the lorry. The noise was loud but not too loud - other horses jumped then went on with eating their hay.

Horses that are dangerous to handle on the ground are an accident waiting to happen and I would happily pts in your circumstances.

Do the right thing by your horse.

ETA: With my dangerous loan horse my insurance refused to cover him for third party liability because of his behaviour. I would have held him while he was shot, and offered the owner that I would do that.

 

[ycbm]

Not many facts attached to the thread so all a little irrelevant How old is the horse, what breed, when did the problem start what did the trainer say unsafe to ride? etc etc.
I would assume quite old as spent eight years in a field
yes read the on the ground comments I know horses who have also struck people with their hooves a well know essex cross country trainer has a scar from such a horse that is still going years later

One hundred painlessly dead and completely at peace horses are better than one life changing injured or dead person.

No horse is worth taking that risk.

 

[paddi22]

yeah i don't understand the 'stick it in a field' thinking. I assume the horse would still need farriers, worming and vet treatment, as well as someone rugging it. I wouldn't risk putting anyone in danger, a horse like that needs to be PTS. You would never forgive yourself if it injured someone.

 

[cundlegreen]

I am interested in peoples views on whether or not you would consider putting down a healthy horse based on behaviour?

If a horse is dangerous to ride, and has then been retired so to speak but is also unpredictable in hand and therefore not an easy companion to have at home and causing risk putting out/in from the field.

Would you have the horse pts on the basis that everything had been tried over the years and it is more hassle than it is worth/accident waiting to happen.

Or would you pay for an alternative place where he could be turned away year round.
Considering that you would then incur a financial cost, regularly monitor welfare encase it didn't do well without a rug ect and be liable for any other issues e.g injuries/damaging fences ect?

Yes, I've done it some years ago. Bought a 5 yr old welsh D as a project, was badly broken, and I suspect that his breeding had something to do with his behaviour. i spent a year making him comfortable in every way, but he would suddenly flip, and go through anything that came his way. After injuring a tendon in the field, I decided the best thing was to put him down. I could not in conscience sell him to anybody, because he was exceptionally strong and unpredictable. I was very relieved when he went, although it was heartbreaking to put down such a young horse.

 

[ameeyal]

YES, pts is far better than an uncertain future, and peace of mind for the owner, I just wish more people would do it.

 

[Goldenstar]

yeah i don't understand the 'stick it in a field' thinking. I assume the horse would still need farriers, worming and vet treatment, as well as someone rugging it. I wouldn't risk putting anyone in danger, a horse like that needs to be PTS. You would never forgive yourself if it injured someone.

Such horses need all the things above , it's another question is if they get them .

 

[GTRJazz]

One hundred painlessly dead and completely at peace horses are better than one life changing injured or dead person.

No horse is worth taking that risk.

In isolation to the rest of the thread as the owner has clearly made every effort and has taken time to come to a considered outcome

True in principle but the reality is a lot of horses are not dangerous it is just that their owners cannot deal with them, the horse world is full of people who treat the horse as a pet never ride have fixed ideas as they have owned horses since child hood and look to similar people for advice.
I was on one yard a horse had been spooked none of the usual crowed would go near it for fear of getting hurt the owner in her late 70s walked out in the dark although she can hardly stand, clipped the horse on and walked back across the field much to their disbelieve.
Now they mock this old lady but she was in jump offs against the best in the country in her time but as a group feel they know best.

 

[windand rain]

I have one in gods waiting room he is 12hh attacks children and has put me in hospital he costs next to nothing to keep so he is happy being a companion that is his job and his value to me. He can never leave here he would without doubt seriously injure a child he is obviously the size of a small childs pony and I can see no way he could leave here and not seriously injure or kill a child. If he ges ill, needs money beyond routine or I cannot look after him he will be shot. He is vet and needle phobic so any other way would never work and it is my prefered choice. I have owned him from a foal, he has never had a bad experience in his life he was born the way he is

 

[ester]

In isolation to the rest of the thread as the owner has clearly made every effort and has taken time to come to a considered outcome

True in principle but the reality is a lot of horses are not dangerous it is just that their owners cannot deal with them, the horse world is full of people who treat the horse as a pet never ride have fixed ideas as they have owned horses since child hood and look to similar people for advice.
I was on one yard a horse had been spooked none of the usual crowed would go near it for fear of getting hurt the owner in her late 70s walked out in the dark although she can hardly stand, clipped the horse on and walked back across the field much to their disbelieve.
Now they mock this old lady but she was in jump offs against the best in the country in her time but as a group feel they know best.

Do you really feel this is the thread to be making this (and your other) points? 'in isolation to the rest of the thread'. As you say this owner has made every effort and given it much consideration and in fact came on here to do so. As such she does not represent the sort of people you are talking about and your posts are therefore not relevant to this thread or the situation. If you wish to make and discuss these points I would suggest it would be much more appropriate to start another, instead of doing so on the thread of someone trying to come to a potentially very difficult decision.

 

[LaurenBay]

How dare you say it is "Lazy thinking" to PTS a Horse.

OP clearly loves the Horse and is trying to do right by it. At the end of the day it is OP's business and no one elses. She is the one paying money to keep this Horse, she is also the one risking herself on a daily basis.

If you are happy to pass on a dangerous Horse then thats up to you, it will be on your conscious if it kills someone or spends the rest of its life with people trying to beat it out of him. The rest of us who have a conscious and care about the welfare of Horses and more importantly people then the right decision is to PTS. Shame on you GTRJazz.

 

[LaurenBay]

OP in regards to the gun, I do think this would be the right choice if the Horse is needle phobic.

I have seen 2 Horses PTS this way, I can honestly say that the other Horses did not mind, they flinched with the noise of it but quickly went back to grazing. There was blood, but not too much and it was a heavy rainfall (both Horses done same day) so it washed away quickly.

Please do not feel like you have to be there OP, much better to spoil him with treats and hand him over with a nice bucket of feed.

I would choose a big open space which is easy for trailer/small lorry to get into, it is easier to move the body this way.